Monitor10b. Replace caps? yay or nay
jeremymarcinko
Posts: 3,785
I have some monitor 10b's bout four years now. Powered my a yamaha m60 and marantz av560 pre/pro. Ive never been happy with bass output. They are very clear detailed and excellent imaging. But my little monitor50's make more on the low end in the same room/conditions. Is this typical? Would replacing caps help? Ive used a powerd sub on occasion but really hate to.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
Post edited by jeremymarcinko on
Comments
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Replacing caps is a good thing regardless whether or not it improves bass.
May be monitor 50's do have more bass.
Klipsch RB81, KG3.5, B&W DM602.5, Polk.
Subwoofers: Klipsch RW10, Triad ProSub Bronze. -
Replace the caps and make sure your cabinets are sealed good. No way should the monitor 50s have better base.
Have you done the leak down test, push in on PR and see if MWs stay out for at least 5 second?Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
yeah I only get a couple of seconds though. I thought there was something wrong. Any idea how to seal them?Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Have you done the leak down test, push in on PR and see if MWs stay out for at least 5 second?
Tracy, 2 to 3 seconds is normal.I thought there was something wrong.
Seems to be. How do you have the 10's set up? That is, how far away from the back wall, etc.Would replacing caps help?
What Mystery said.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I bought mine slightly used in '89 and could not get the base I wanted out of them. I ended running them w an LF 14. An improvement but I should look into them when I get a chance.
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There is NO way a set of M-50s are going to put out more bass than Monitor 10s. Not in "this" world, anyway. Caps won't do a lot for your bass output, they will improve what's up top and mids, etc. You must have a problem with your seals or perhaps one of your mid-drivers is NOT working. Check both drivers and their seal. And also look at placement. I have a set of TSI 300s around here somewhere (like your M-50s) and a set of 10A Monitors. NO "contest" the Monitors put out way more sound and reach much much lower!
It's not even "close"!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Caps won't do a lot for your bass output
I'll respectfully disagree. The improvement in bass response after a cap upgrade is usually the first thing one will notice.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I defer to F1nut on this one. His experience is far more extensive in such matters.
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
I have messed with placement often. Best overall for me was 10 inches from back wall and on 17" tall concrete plant stands about 9' apart. It put the mw's at ear level. Setup in a finished basment room 22'x24'x7' drywall carpet acoustic tile ceiling. The lower hz was improved but still nowhere near it should be. I always assumed it was the drop ceiling absorbing much of the lower hz until I hooked my monitor50's just for kicks and thought "really" whats wrong with my 10's.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Thanks gentleman. I think I will break em down and see whats up.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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It was the first thing I noticed when I did the crossovers for my 2A's. Cleaned up the mud and gave much better definition. An audio engineer friend told me as our ears age cleaner sound becomes more critical than in our youth.
F1 is the man when it comes to giving this kind of advice. (pretty sharp in other areas also) -
The cap change in my 5jr+ sure punched up the base quite a bit, also dynomat can help as well.Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
Great info guys. Seems I now have a some work to get my 10b's alive again.
thanksOh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
I'll respectfully disagree. The improvement in bass response after a cap upgrade is usually the first thing one will notice.
LOL, that was the first thing I noticed when I upgraded my caps to ESA's in my CSI A6. The increase in bass suprised me!Living Room
Fronts: RTi A7's
Center: Csi A6 VR3 "Fortress Plus"
Front Heights: Rti A1
Surrounds: Rti A3
Sub: HSU VTF-2 MK4 Damn this is a good SUB
Pioneer Pioneer Elite: SC-35-> Emotiva XPA-3
TV: Lg LW6500 55" Passive 3D
Blu-Ray Panasonic BD 210
XboX 360 Slim/Kinect
Acoustimac red suede panels -
could someone point a rookie towards a thread that talks about how to replace your caps? (and where to find replacements)?HT - Sharp 60LE845U, KLH Model 71 receiver, Polk Monitor 4
Man cave - SAE A7 amp, SAE T7 tuner, H.H.Scott 199T, Monitor10 -
I can't think those concrete plant stands are doing you any favors.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I can't think those concrete plant stands are doing you any favors.
I would love to hear why not. Here is my, perhaps faulty, understanding of how braces or spikes work:
A speaker operates with a push-pull type of motion. As the magnetic field pushes the speaker forward, an equal and opposite force pushes the cabinet backward. So some of the mechanical energy is absorbed and not converted to sound. The cabinet itself is vibrating. If a speaker is sitting on carpet it can easily rock a bit forward and back. So adding spikes through the carpet to the floor eliminates that rocking action. So does a wall brace like the ones that used to be added to large SDAs. I would think setting a speaker on a mass of concrete would accomplish the same thing. In fact, I have been thinking of doing just this with my SDA-CRS+, using two pilaster blocks per speaker. So I would be interested to know why this won't work.
Jim5.1 System:
TCL R613 55" 4K
Front: SRS-3.1TL
Center: CS400i
Surround: Monitor 10B
PSW10 subwoofer
Onkyo PR-SC886P Pre/Pro
NAD T955 5 channel power amplifier
Technics SL-1710 MK2 turntable
Audio-Technica AT14Sa cartridge
Parasound P3 pre-amp
Oppo BDP-103 Blu-Ray
2014 MacBook Pro 2.8 GHz
2.0 Office System:
Monitor 10A (Peerless)
Outlaw 1050 receiver
Parasound HCA-1000A power amp
MacPro -
This is an easy and relatively cheap loudspeaker to upgrade caps and resistors on so I would also suggest you do it. I wouldn't worry about inductors unless you find a great price. I suggest inductors for very serious upgrades and on SDA's not Monitors since I don't find as many MON fanatics as I do SDA nuts. What I think is most important here is to not change the speaker so much that it loses what made it a staple of the Polk Audio lineup in the 80's. Between the MON7 and MON10, these two speakers alone put Polk on the hit list of every other manufacture when they hit the street. They were affordable and sounded REALLY good. Upgrade but don't go overboard and totally change the sonic signature of what made it magical.
That's your call but F1Nut and Mystery have covered it enough to get some sort of reenforcement at this point I would hope.
MarkCTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
tI would love to hear why not. Here is my, perhaps faulty, understanding of how braces or spikes work:
A speaker operates with a push-pull type of motion. As the magnetic field pushes the speaker forward, an equal and opposite force pushes the cabinet backward. So some of the mechanical energy is absorbed and not converted to sound. The cabinet itself is vibrating. If a speaker is sitting on carpet it can easily rock a bit forward and back. So adding spikes through the carpet to the floor eliminates that rocking action. So does a wall brace like the ones that used to be added to large SDAs. I would think setting a speaker on a mass of concrete would accomplish the same thing. In fact, I have been thinking of doing just this with my SDA-CRS+, using two pilaster blocks per speaker. So I would be interested to know why this won't work.
Jim
Yes, that was my thinking as will the polk stands were not sturdy on the carpet and would move ever so slightly. Could of spiked them but hey I work at a precast concrete company. Large outdoor 150lb plant stands should be sturdy enough. No more wobble and it really brought the vocals out maybe because the mw's were at ear level instead of the tweeter. The bass impoved some too but I was hoping for more.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
The right tool for the job comes to mind.Large outdoor 150lb plant stands should be sturdy enough. No more wobble and it really brought the vocals out maybe because the mw's were at ear level instead of the tweeter.
It's still got carpet/padding between the actual floor and the, dare I call it, speaker stand. Not good.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
The right tool for the job comes to mind.
It's still got carpet/padding between the actual floor and the, dare I call it, speaker stand. Not good.
I set of spikes wouldnt go through the padding either. Concrete doesn't resonate and is heavy enough to compress the carpet and padding to give VERY solid foundation. No speaker stand could work as well.Very good;)Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
Then you had the wrong spikes. My big SDA's weigh 155 lbs. and sit on carpet. Adding spikes made a huge improvement.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
+1Then you had the wrong spikes. My big SDA's weigh 155 lbs. and sit on carpet. Adding spikes made a huge improvement.
Monitor 10s are certainly heavy enough to push through carpet and padding. You just need the narrower tappered typeHome Theater/2 Channel:
Front: SDA-2ATL forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/143984/my-2as-finally-finished-almost/p1
Center: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/150760/my-center-channel-project/p1
Surrounds & Rears: Custom Built forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/151647/my-surround-project/p1
Sonicaps, Mills, RDO-194s-198s, Dynamat, Hurricane Nuts, Blackhole5
Pioneer Elite VSX-72TXV, Carver PM-600, SVS PB2-Plus Subwoofer
dhsspeakerservice.com/ -
We've certainly gotten off topic. However I did say I could of used spikes. I am not in disagreement about there ability to improve the tonal characteristics of ones loudspeaker. The Monitor10's with spikes will in no way penetrate the carpet and padding on there own at 40ish lbs each 10 lbs force per spike its not going to happen. Although they could be persuaded. However the monitors are obviously much shorter than said SDA and would require more the polk stands to get the tweeter up near ear level where they arguably sound the best. Solution #1 40lb monitors on spiked 15"-17" stands forced through carpet or Solution#2 15" square by 17" high Concrete plant stand now a speaker stand that weighs guessing 150lbs maybe more. In my opinion the concrete stands is a better approach. To me a 40lb loudspeaker that high in the air on typical stands is a bad idea.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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littlewoodboats wrote: »F1 is the man when it comes to giving this kind of advice. (pretty sharp in other areas also)
He's terrible at relationship advice though. -
Yes he and others was very helpful.
Thanks for all the suggestions.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant -
Thanks everyone you've solved my problem. I replaced the caps and sealed the drivers with the mortite as you guys suggested. All is good. My 10B's never sounded this good.Oh, Listen here mister. We got no way of understandin' this world. But we got as much sense of this bird flyin in the sky. Now there is a lot that bird don't know, but it don't change the fact that the world is happening to him all the same. What I am tryin to say is, is that the course of your life, well its changing, and you don't even see it- Forest Bondurant
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Get rid of the Mortite. If your stock gaskets are shot, then use Armacell.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk
