Mid-level amp recommendation for Polk DX7s and GNX104 sub?

Crewd · November 2003

Hi,

Installed a 2000 model Alpine HU today and I think I need to up the wattage. Right now I'm looking at 4-channel amps. I'll probably run the DX7 door speakers in a 2-ohm configuration and bridge the second channel for the 10" sub. Also, my HU has only one preamp out but I've been told I can connect a Y-cable to access all 4 inputs of the amp. HP and LP control is also important.

Any suggestions? Kicker, Alpine, MTX? Nothing too high-end please.

Thanks,
Jon

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

if your head unit has 1 pre-amp, and youre only connecting 1 amp...then you dont need to use y-splitters, another option for you is to buy a 5 channel amp, 4 channels for your full-range, 1 channel for a sub
how much are you willing to spend for a sub?
how much are you willing to spend for an amp?
-Cody

Crewd · November 2003

Thanks Cody...

I already have the sub... a Polk GNX104 in a custom built cabinet. As for amp cost, I'm looking at about $300.00 and under (400 to 600w). I know it won't buy me perfection but basically I just want a clean good-sounding amp that'll improve the DX7s sound and provide enough power for the 10" Polk.

Jon

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

did you mean the dx6 speakers?
didnt know they had a dx7...
if they did, what is their rms rating?
-Cody

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

I found the perfect amp for you!
Hifonics Zeus ZX8000
I hope that link works
its 50x4 + 200x1 (for your sub)
its $270 with a 1 yr warranty from that site
if you wanted a 4 channel amp, youd have to get a 50x4, which would only give you 100 watts to that sub
and if im correct, if you ever wanted to add another gnx, wire it in parallel, and still get 150watts to each sub
but really this amp was made for your exact application, its a hifonics amp, and hifonics are VERY good amps, VERY good...
-Cody

Crewd · November 2003

sntnsupermen131,

Yeah, the DX7 is a 2001 model 6X8. Very highly regarded replacement speaker for Fords and Hondas. Here are the wattage specs:

Power Handling (continuous) 40 w
Power Handling (peak) 130 w

Thanks so much for the amp recommendation and link! I'll definately check that model out.

Jon

Systems · November 2003

That Hifonics price seems a little too good to be true. Im kind of leary of buying electronics online. That site also has Focal speakers and Focal authorizes nobody to sell their speaker online and will not warranty any of their products bought online. You should check with the Hifonics website and see if they have authorized internet dealers. SoundDomain.com is an authorized Hifonics dealer so you might want to check with them too. Im not saying theyre a rip off, just be careful. Thats a tough price to beat tho.

The best 5 channel prices Ive come across from dealers are the Alpine V12 $500, Kicker $575, JL Audio 6 channel $400, Eclipse $500, Planet Audio $430. All of these are good quality amps and have between 150-200 watts for the sub. I would say that your best sound quality would come from the Alpine or the JL Audio, however you can only run 1 sub on those. The Kicker aint no slouch in the SQ department and has plenty of grunt. You can easily run 8 speakers and 2 subs off this monster. Might wanna buy a bigger alternator with it though!

Crewd · November 2003

Thanks MacLeod... good idea about checking Hifonics website!

Cody, that amp looks awsome but I'm not sure I can use it.

I'm a little confused now... Getting back to my original post, why would I want a 5-channel amp when my HU has only one preamp out? If logic serves me well, I'm going to lose "front to back door speaker" fader control once the RCA output is fed into the power amp, thus defeating the need for 4 individual channels of a 5-channel design.

Doesn't it make sense to buy a 4-channel amp and sum the front and back door speakers to 2-ohm (more wattage), and bridge the sub to 4-ohm? Maybe I'm missing something here?

I appreciate your help...
Jon

Systems · November 2003

I highly recommend spending a little extra and getting a head unit with 2 or more pre-outs. Alpine has a great little HU for $200 that has 3 4-volt pre outs. Its a little more hassle with extra wires and all but I think it will be well worth it. It will give you added flexibility in your system and allow you to better fine tune your amps output right from your head unit by allowing you to tune the output of front, rear and subwoofer channels right from your seat.

MTXMAN · November 2003

Your 6x8's are more than likely made for a 4 ohm load and won't like a 2 ohm signal, the hifonics is gonna be your best bet and i'd reccomend it over any of the amps Macleod recomended, Eclipse makes **** amps, alpine's not bad, I don't trust planet audio cause of how many hoops you have to jump through to find out their specs (guy i emailed didn't even know where to find the slew rate and dampening factor of their amps) and personally i wouldn't bother putting my money into either JL or Kicker.

As far as getting a new deck, the one you have is fine, you can adjust the fade by setting the gains for the front's and rears at different levels. Just as good of a control, not as easialy accessable but all you need.

In short. Get the Hifonics, they're a great company that makes solid amps.

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

and just b/c you only have 1 preout and its a 5 channel amp isnt a bad thing, im not sure, but it might only need 1 preout, it wont need more than 2, which is simple
get 2 pairs of radio shack gold series y-splitters with 1 female/2 male ends
i have the subs in my truck running off a similar setup...i used the radio shack y-splitters, theyre great
-Cody

MTXMAN · November 2003

personally i try to get matching patch cables and splitters when using them... more for cosmetics than anything else and the most expensive y splitters i've seen were something like 8 bucks so it's not gonna break the bank ;D

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

actually y-splitters are pretty expensive
the radio shack ones were $13 a pop
most ive seen are like $30...and you need two...so thats $60...at least
-Cody

MTXMAN · November 2003

you're right cody... looks like i got too used to getting things at cost from CC... my bad... you can find cheaper ones from streetwires at www.mitekfactoryoutlet.com though

PoweredByDodge · November 2003

sounddomain.com is retail -- they're as trustworthy as crutchfield... they're a little f-in lazy with shipping, takes them a while to get u things (liek a week instead of 3 days), but they are cheap, they are retail, they give u full MFG warranty through the mfg, and they are CHHHHEEEAAAAPPPPP.

hifonics is decent stuff -- it wont break down on you -- for 270 - hell for 370 i'd buy that amp.

you can also look at www.mitekfactoryoutlet.com

click on audio - click on amps - click on mtx...

there is a blue thunder 5 channel that does similar power for about the same price, but its mtx - and in my book, that's a little "gooder" -- give it a look.

Crewd · November 2003

Well thanks everyone for your advice and recommendations...

I ordered the Hifonics Zeus ZX8000 5-channel amp yesterday. I'm hoping it'll accept only one preamp out but if not, I'll Y-split the signal. I'll run it 4-ohm all the way around (per MTXMAN's suggestion) and hopefully things will sound great.

By the way, does anyone have any recommendations for wiring kit? I can get the Scosche KPA4X2 for $25 at WalMart, but if there are better brands, I'm open to suggestion.

Again thanks for your help... I looking forward to finally having some serious power in my truck!

Jon

PoweredByDodge · November 2003

you need no less than (but also no more than) an 8 gauge kit.

i would suggest a streetwires brand kit - with a decent grade RCA cable included (such as the 3.5 series).

you can go as cheap as a lightning audio bolt or strike series kit or as high as a stinger dream series kit...

but it may be better to buy the cheapeast 8 gauge power wire / fuse holder / terminal ends that you can find and spend the money you saved on some good quality RCA's.

check out sounddomain, look at stinger power wire - its cheap as hell... or www.knukonceptz.com -- if u're at sounddomain thugh - look at the stinger power wire - lightning audio bolt series terminal ends - lightning fuse holder - and streetwires or stinger rca cables.

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

actually, id probably go with 4awg
hes going to be running 400 watts rms
but you could probably get by with 8awg
400 watts is kinda border-linish
but id go with 4awg
www.knukonceptz.com has amp kits
i ordered all of my power wiring from there
but i havent used their rca's
id go with streetwires 3.0s for rca's
you can get by with cheap power wire
you can get by with decent speaker wire
so if knukonceptz has a kit without rca's...get that...and the 3.0 rca's
rca's are the ones you dont want to slack on
and when youre wiring your car
make sure to keep any wires that were already in the car together
and separte everything else
you dont want your speaker wire close to anything, your power wire close to anything, and your rca's close to anything
this can cause noise in your wire and transfer it to your speakers...which is BAD
-Cody

Crewd · November 2003

Thanks guys... I'll definitely go with the StreetWire RCAs

For what it's worth, the Hifonics site lists the ZX8000 as having 4 gauge power connectors. Not sure if it's relevant but maybe?

One thing I'm missing here... Obviously I need to return the amp's 4-channel speaker wire outputs to the dash to feed the signal to the door speakers. Does speaker wire normally come with most kits? This kit has it at KnuKonceptz but I'd prefer a jacketed 8-wire cable for easier install if possible...

http://www.knukonceptz.com/detail.asp?product_id=KOLAK44

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

speaker wire usually does come with the kits, but you might have to buy a little more(best buy, circuit city) since youll be sending it to 4 speakers
if it comes with the kit, itll say it comes with x amount of speaker wire
and im not sure i understand what you mean by easier??
easier b/t 4awg vs. 8awg?
installing 4 awg or 8awg is almost one and the same...unless you have problem with using 4awg due to whatever?
-Cody

MTXMAN · November 2003

i'd run 4 ga power wire, gives you more headroom for future upgrades. and personally i stick to 12-14 ga speaker wire.

www.mitekfactoryoutlet.com has some great prices on spools of wire... or if you have any friends who work at circuit city a 150 ft spool of 12ga tsunami speaker wire is about $30 at dealer cost, bought a spool on my last day working there ;D

Crewd · November 2003

By easier I'm refering running one single cable housing 8 speakers wires (2 per channel) vs. four separate two-pair wires.

Another poster on a different forum said StreetWires makes an 8-wire EIA color coded cable but they're kinda pricey. At this point I'd rather have an all-in-one" solution but it looks like I'm gonna have to purchase separates.

Oh yeah, I'll go 4-gauge like you said... thanks

MTXMAN · November 2003

just go with regular speaker wire, easier to trouble shoot if something is wrong... alternator whine etc...

PoweredByDodge · November 2003

well -- for 400 wrms, figure like 65% efficiency... that's

400 / 0.65 = about 615

figure 14 volts...

615 / 14 = 43 amps

for that - 8 gauge is fine...

however, if you later choose to run that amp at 2 ohms, then you're at like 800 watts / 86 amps, in which case 4 gauge would be a necessity...

long story short, if u ever choose to drop the load in the future or expand, u'd need 4 anyways -- so u might as well go with 4, but ifyou're dead sure you're not gonna upgrade / add, then 8 would be just fine (at about its limit -- 40-ish is about the "tops" for 8 gauge within reasonable standards).

anywho -- as far as speaker wire -- i know what you're talkin about... streetwires and stinger both make that stuff but it SUCKS.

its a fat **** wire that's about as thick as 0 or 2 gauge power wire... its heavy as hell too, and once u get to the dash and have to split off between two of the pairs going to the left and two to the right, you will have to SAW the damn wire in half, which you wont want to do to more than like six inches of it , but you'd have to do that to like 10 - 15 feet of it.

again, to not be long winded, go with some normal 16 or 18 gauge wire.

you're only running 50 watts a channel... 18's fine... wanna be picky like me? cool beans, go 16, anything larger than 16 is an absolute waste of your money when running 50 watts a channel unless you've gotta make a 20 foot run with the speaker wire... which i doubt you will. i used 14 gauge for about a 20 foot run for the speakers in the front of the caddy on 50 watts each... but then again i also use 15 (yes 15 not 16) gauge for the components in front of my truck which get almost 200 watts per channel -- length is like 10-ish feet.

its all relative... but i think 16 is plenty good for your application. 18 is ok -- 20 is a no no, too thin.

you can actually go cheap by going to radio shack and buying a 100 foot roll of the "in wall" (just means it has a heavier jacket) 16 gauge... it'll get the job done well and its like 14 bucks for 100 feet... that's 14 cents a foot -- 6 cents a foot cheaper than stinger or streetwires or monster 16 gauge... personally, the SW / ST / Monster **** is better, but i dont think its gonna matter... however, that's a judgement call.

being picky -- 16 gauge Stinger at 20 cents a foot is my call.

for the sub - if you are running it off a less than three foot speaker wire, then 16 is fine (bare **** minimum)... up to five or so -- 14 gauge... five and up -- 12 gauge.

my call -- try to keep the line short (3 feet or less) but go with 12 gauge anyway - it wont hurt. impedance rises with frequency - transient response ****... when running "200 watts" to a tweeter, you actually get a lower current flow (hence a lower wattage, but that's another story -- u set your amp to put out like 200 watts at 100 hertz -- then u wire it through a crossover to a tweeter and u end up being able to use skinnier wire for the tweeter than if you wired it through a low pass to a woofer which would suck more current due to the lower frequency response).

you can get 12 gauge at circuit city for like a 75 cents a foot i think... u ony need a few feet so who cares about the price.

then, when its all done - have a molson canadian.

Crewd · November 2003

Wow... thanks for all the info PBD!

I'll probably order the KnuKonceptz amp install kit and upgrade the RCA cable and speaker wires.

http://www.knukonceptz.com/detail.asp?product_id=KOLAK4

I don't know if this is typical, but I have a Ford SuperCrew and the only way I can access the door speakers is through the Ford wire harness near the head unit. Granted the wires are pretty small but running wire to each individual door speaker would be near impossible for me. Therefore I need use this connection.

What gauge wire would you suggest for making a run from the power amp to this in-dash location?

Thanks for bearing with me!!!

sntnsupermen131 · November 2003

im not sure if im misunderstanding you, or youre thinking wrong
you do not connect the speaker to the head unit directly
your rca goes from your hu to your amp, and a remote turn on wire
then you run your speaker wire from your amp directly to the speakers
-Cody

Systems · November 2003

I know what he is talking about. I ran into the same problem on my 02 Ram. There is no way to run wires into the doors without drilling and I didnt want to do that. So I ran the wires from my amp to the wiring harness behind the head unit. Im not wiring into the HU but rather wiring into the factory speaker wires leading out from the HU. I know the factory wire is pretty small but unless youre running a competition system it wont make that much of a difference. I run 16 gauge Monster speaker wire to the harness and it saves a **** load of time and headaches.

There was a reply to a question in this months Car Audio & Electronics asking the same thing. The editor said," Many installers will run a good aftermarket wire to the kick panels and connect to the factory speaker wires....unless the project is a serious one, there wont be any problem. A 100 watt amp playing into a 4 ohm door speaker will max out at around 5 amps. 5 amps playing thru a few feet of the factory garbage speaker wire will not make a noticeable difference."

Not to mention the fact that Im lazy!!! LOL

Crewd · November 2003

Exactly MacLeod!

The wiring harness going to the the HU is only used for battery, ground, and ignition connections. The factory speaker wires connect to the amp's outputs and the HU speaker outputs are taped off. I'll run separate 16-gauge wires like you mentioned.

Apart from that I think I'm ready. My amp is gonna be delivered today and I'll start the install tomorrow. Can't wait!

Again, I can't thank you enough for all your help guys! I'll keep you posted on its progress.

PoweredByDodge · November 2003

is there no other hole in the kick area to the outside of the truck except the actual grommet holding the stock wire?

even if that is so - why can you not just pinch through the side of it, peek some "outdoor grade" wire through there, and then peek it back through into the door.

that's what i did on our two trucks. stock wire = the devil.

Systems · November 2003

Thats what I did on my 2000 Ram but on the new models its different. Instead of their being a hole in the door and a hole in the body with a bunch of wires running thru a rubber tube, they now have a wiring harness. There is a plug on the door and a plug on the body and the rubber tube plugs into them. You cant fit anything thru there. Believe me I tried. However Im far from an expert installer so if anybody knows a better way Id love to hear it.

MTXMAN · November 2003

that's a pretty **** thing to do... i swear for some reason car companies actually think they put good sound systems in their cars...

Mid-level amp recommendation for Polk DX7s and GNX104 sub?

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