Killing receiver

jparker82

Quick question, need advice. I seem to keep burning up receivers. I am running Polk LSI 9's LSI25's LSICenter LSIM702 and LSI 7. I have been killing, burning up receivers. Right now I have a Onkyo TX NR 5007 and I am using a Anthem MCA 20 to run the LSI 25's(very power hungry).. I have gone thru a bunch of Integra and Onkyo receivers the last 4/5 years. Any advice.

Should I just switch to processor and Amp? And if so what is best amp to push these 4 ohm speakers?

Thanks

cnh

Need a "fan" over the HDMI boards in all probability. The Onkyos have a problem overheating in that area because of sub-standard parts. They skimped on higher grade items there. You also may be trying to run too many speakers on the AVR. That is possible, especially with 4 ohmers. Though the surrounds and anything less than an LSi-9 should not present a serious problem to the AVR?

cnh

nwohlford

The lsi9s and lsic are really no easier to drive than the lsi25. I would get at least a five channel amp to run the lsi25s, lsi9s, and lsic. You can run the remaining four speakers off the receiver if you want. In addition the onkyo receivers ending in 7 and 8 (and the corresponding Integras) have had a number of issues. There are lots of options as far as amps.

tonyb

Agreed ^^^

What made you think it was ok to run 4 ohm speakers off an avr anyway ? If you thought the 25's at 4 ohms needed an amp, why wouldn't you amp up the rest of the gang ? Just curious is all, no offense ment.

jparker82

Every receiver I have bought have been higher end and 6/4 ohms certified. But that seems not to matter. Thanks for the advice. I will probably just drop in a amp. Just sick of spending $$$$. But it's a problem that needs solved. Probably ad another anthem, the one I have now is cold to the touch after hours of running my LSI 25's.
thanks
Jason

jparker82

I solved the problem. I added a Integra 70.1 9 channel amp. Thanks for the advice.

BlueFox

jparker82 wrote: »

I solved the problem. I added a Integra 70.1 9 channel amp. Thanks for the advice.

How do know that this will not also burn up? Is your gear in the open with adequate air flow, or is it enclosed and restricted?

Serendipity

There are three main reasons why a receiver (or amplifier) might fail:

1. Outputs are low impedance and MUST be connected to high-impedance loads (your speakers). A low impedance load such as a direct short, speaker with voice coil damage, or mismatched load will severly shorten the life of your amplifier. The unit may go into a protection mode forcing the outputs into current-limit, or the unit may even turn off completely. On A/V Receivers, this is usually indicated by a flashing red 'Standby' light. Also, driving a load that is lower impedance than your receiver is rated for is also asking for trouble. The unit may work, but have a shortened life due to the more demanding load.

2. HEAT - heat is the enemy of any amplifier. Units that are run with components stacked directly on top run the risk of overheating and failing. As the temperature rises, the life of MOSFETs, capacitors, and IC's drops dramatically. A 20'C increase in temperature may shorten the life of some components by as much as 50%!

3. Voltage on speaker lines - this is very bad. Connecting an amplifier's output to another unit's output, or having voltage present on transmission lines is a surefire way to destroy many amps. So check your connections and make sure the power is OFF before connecting. A unit with its left and right speaker outputs shorted together may likely suffer damage on BOTH channels.

IMO.

SugarmillMan

Serendipity wrote: »

There are three main reasons why a receiver (or amplifier) might fail:

1. Outputs are low impedance and MUST be connected to high-impedance loads (your speakers). A low impedance load such as a direct short, speaker with voice coil damage, or mismatched load will severly shorten the life of your amplifier. The unit may go into a protection mode forcing the outputs into current-limit, or the unit may even turn off completely. On A/V Receivers, this is usually indicated by a flashing red 'Standby' light. Also, driving a load that is lower impedance than your receiver is rated for is also asking for trouble. The unit may work, but have a shortened life due to the more demanding load.

2. HEAT - heat is the enemy of any amplifier. Units that are run with components stacked directly on top run the risk of overheating and failing. As the temperature rises, the life of MOSFETs, capacitors, and IC's drops dramatically. A 20'C increase in temperature may shorten the life of some components by as much as 50%!

3. Voltage on speaker lines - this is very bad. Connecting an amplifier's output to another unit's output, or having voltage present on transmission lines is a surefire way to destroy many amps. So check your connections and make sure the power is OFF before connecting. A unit with its left and right speaker outputs shorted together may likely suffer damage on BOTH channels.

IMO.

In my experience, two of my past Onkyo receivers suffered from heat related damage. Both an older Onkyo TX-NR717 and a newer TX-NR 3008 ended up being serviced under Onkyo warranty for heat damaged HDMI boards. Warranty replaced both boards and covered all costs but I had no receiver for many weeks. I always assumed I would be in the clear because I used external amplification and never listened at any loud volume. This was not the case.

My advice is to purchase a USB powered fan and place on top right rear of the unit. You can look at "the CoolerGuys" and also check out laptop type coolers that are USB powered from many online stores. Any Onkyo or Integra receiver should be monitored for heat problems in my opinion.

jparker82

Thanks for the info on the cooler guys. I do agree every Integra I have ever owned has run hot. Just not as hot as this one. And of course it's wired properly with high quality wires. I never inclose any electronics.

To answer your ? How do I know problem is solved. The issue of stressing my receiver has been removed. The 70 Integra has a 4 ohm switch and is pushing speakers with no heat.

I did order 4 sets of fans. Probably overkill but that's Ok. Also upgraded power conditioner.

Thanks

SugarmillMan

jparker82 wrote: »

Thanks for the info on the cooler guys. I do agree every Integra I have ever owned has run hot. Just not as hot as this one. And of course it's wired properly with high quality wires. I never inclose any electronics.

To answer your ? How do I know problem is solved. The issue of stressing my receiver has been removed. The 70 Integra has a 4 ohm switch and is pushing speakers with no heat.

I did order 4 sets of fans. Probably overkill but that's Ok. Also upgraded power conditioner.

Thanks

If you can post a photo of your set-up after you get the fans, I'm sure everyone would like to see it.

halo71

Just curious, when you say you have been through a bunch of receivers. How many exactly is that?

tonyb

halo71 wrote: »

Just curious, when you say you have been through a bunch of receivers. How many exactly is that?

He's got one more to go yet.

jparker82

tonyb wrote: »

He's got one more to go yet.

What does that mean?

How many. 2 Yamaha one was a z9 other I don't remember the other. On my second Onkyo Txnr 5007. One Integra and a Pioneer Elite. So the short answer is 6. I won't ever buy another receiver. Separates from now on. Funny thing is I don't like my LSI that much.....

I would be happy to post a pic. I ordered the fans last night on Amazon so it will be a few days.

F1nut

The 70 Integra has a 4 ohm switch

All that does is limit the current.

halo71

Wow, you actually burnt up 6 receivers before you decided somethings wrong? Sorry, but damn. I would think after 2 I would be asking some questions.

jparker82

halo71 wrote: »

Wow, you actually burnt up 6 receivers before you decided somethings wrong? Sorry, but damn. I would think after 2 I would be asking some questions.

Nope. Zero of them burnt up. Just lack of original performance. I did not like the sound of the Yamaha receivers so I replaced them. But to be honest I did not realize the strain that the LSI speakers but on electronics. I would never buy them again.

My equipment gets a massive amount of use. Several battles with my health over the last several years so i have been home alot. We watch tons of movies and the sound is always rocking.

mdaudioguy

The new LSiM series is 8 ohm - much easier to drive. At Polk, in their HT demo room, they had a complete 7 channel LSiM setup running off a receiver. I still love the LSi series, though. You just gotta feed them properly.

halo71

Oh well your first post said "I seem to keep burning up receivers"....that is why I asked.

jparker82

Seemed more like trolling than asking..... Just sayin!!!! But my mistake in language.

codyc1ark

jparker82 wrote: »

Seemed more like trolling than asking..... Just sayin!!!! But my mistake in language.

I don't feel like he was trolling, rather you did say that you we're 'burning up' receivers. That said, I think you picked up a fine amp. Being a member from 07', you should have known that you couldn't power LSi's from an AVR. I'm interested in your thoughts once you get the amp, remember to re-run your room correction once its dialed in.

F1nut

jparker82 wrote: »

Seemed more like trolling than asking..... Just sayin!!!! But my mistake in language.

Wow, talk about misleading statements and now you say you'll never buy LSi's again. Sounds like you're the troll here.

Again, you do realize that the 4 ohm switch simply limits current and in doing so compromises the performance.

tonyb

codyc1ark wrote: »

Being a member from 07', you should have known that you couldn't power LSi's from an AVR.

Good point Cody, even a review on that Integra amp said it was iffy on anything under 90 efficiency. I'm thinking his problem came in with underpowering and high volume levels which as we all know spells disaster.

jparker82

I really goes back to bad advice at time of purchase. The GM at sound advice should of pointed out the fact of needing separates at the time of purchase. Think he was more interested in my money. I am very far from a troll. I was simply looking for advice. I stated that I would not buy them again, not because they are bad speakers. Simply because life would be a lot easier with a less power hungry speaker. I would not of continued to add LSI speakers if they where BAD.
As for me being a member since 07 yes. But I have never claimed to be a techy. I look to this site for advice when needed. I think some assume that everyone should be as tech savy as them. It's just not the case. Funny how people judge from a distance.

Again thanks for the needed advice.

tonyb

jparker82 wrote: »

As for me being a member since 07 yes. But I have never claimed to be a techy. I look to this site for advice when needed. I think some assume that everyone should be as tech savy as them. It's just not the case. Funny how people judge from a distance.

Again thanks for the needed advice.

Don't sweat it, it's just from the cheap seats I never knew you had to be a Techy to ask a question. A question we get more times than flies on a cows tail too. Usually sounds like this......."Will my receiver power my LSI speakers ? ". Just saying is all, you could have saved yourself some coinage and agravation.

As long as your happy in the end I guess is all that matters, enjoy the tunes.

jparker82

Thanks.

So am I understanding correctly. The Integra Amp is not a good choice for these speakers. It sounds amazing.

halo71

See the thing is this....you made mention of turning the volume wide open in an earlier post, burning up more than 1 receiver etc etc. That said, one does not have to be technically inclined here. Please forgive me but it is common sense rather. Turning the volume wide **** open on probably any amp is not a good idea for the amp or the speakers let alone your ears. If the amp starts clipping....that's bad bad bad. And after 1 burnt up receiver "I" would have came here asking questions or even getting my Google on. In a way, one could say they heard the valves rattling in their engine and kept driving then the engine blew up from lack of oil. Most folks would pull over check the oil or whatever right? Bottom line is your receiver ran out of oil and blew up. You should have checked the oil in the second one! :cheesygrin:

Sorry it that seemed harsh.

jparker82

I said rocking not wide open. Hugh diff. I would be deaf. Anyway this thread just needs to die. There must be a delete button somewhere!!!