Sharp LED Flashlighting probem

organ

Hey guys,
My 46" Samsung LCD started acting up and finally decided to upgrade.
Yesterday, I purchased a 60" Sharp Aquos LED. While watching in the dark, I noticed a few bright areas on the screen during dark scenes, and I can clearly see it when the screen is completely dark with most lights in the room turned off.

Decided to google my problem and found out it's called "flashlighting effect" which seems to be a very common problem with edge lit LED's like mine. Other than that, I couldn't find much more info on the issue. Mine has this effect on the top left corner and a more pronounced one just off center to the left of the screen.

After one day now, I noticed it has reduced slightly and I'm hoping it will go away as everything settles.
This is very frustrating considering the price I paid. Sharp has a solid reputation with LED displays and I wasn't expecting this sort of problem on a higher end model.

I was planning to get a plasma at first but decided on the LED because they're much more efficient and doesn't give off much heat at all.

Anybody experience this problem? If so, did it eventually go away after a while? I found a thread about this where someone had an issue with their Samsung and the customer service rep said it usually goes away after 2-3 weeks. Don't know how accurate that is because we all know how poor customer service is for big name electronics.

What do you guys think? Exchange it for the same model and hope it doesn't have this problem, or should I just exchange it for a plasma?

Eff man, if I had known how common this problem is, I would have gone with plasma. It's going to be a major PITA just to box this
monster back up. Aaaargh!

Any input greatly appreciated.

AsSiMiLaTeD

It's common on edge lit led TVs, and it's not something that will just go away. Some TVs are better with it that's others, and the Sony 850 tv I have now doesn't have it at all.

If you want to avoid it completely either get an led with local dimming or get a plasma

organ

Thanks for your input, Assimilated. It has reduced slightly since I got it. But I'm guessing it won't go away just like you mentioned.

Can you tell me what local dimming is? Mine has a feature called OPC which lowers or increases backlighting depending on ambient light in the room. I can still see it with backlight set to minimum but it's very minimal compared to -7 which I prefer.

Gonna wait until my day off next week and get a plasma if this problem doesn't get any better.

gdb

Head over to this forum for in depth discussion of flat panel tech/problems, then, go buy a Panny plasma !:cheesygrin:

http://www.avsforum.com/f/166/lcd-flat-panel-displays

organ

Forgot to mention.
One thing I'm worried about with plasma is screen burn. I use my tv a lot for flight simulator and some video games. I also browse the web on my tv because my pc is connected to it.

organ

gdb,
Thanks for the link. I will see how it goes in the next few days since they have become less visible compared to how it was last night. But yeah, I'm actually thinking of the Panny plasma. Not to mention it's a few hundred bucks cheaper.

gdb

This is a great thread on my least favorite brand of electronics ! :eek:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1433371/never-buy-a-samsung

gdb

organ wrote: »

gdb,
Thanks for the link. I will see how it goes in the next few days since they have become less visible compared to how it was last night. But yeah, I'm actually thinking of the Panny plasma. Not to mention it's a few hundred bucks cheaper.

Costco has some stupid cheap Panny 1080p sets with a 2yr. warranty.

organ

Ha ha. I learned my lesson with Samsung as well. The one that I just recently replaced started going wacko in less than 4 years and my back light setting was VERY conservative. No more Samsung for me! lol

organ

gdb wrote: »

Costco has some stupid cheap Panny 1080p sets with a 2yr. warranty.

I don't think the store will give me a refund. Only exchange. I'll have to double check their policy and call them in the next few days. They have the Panny I want for $1250 cdn. I paid $1599 for the Sharp excluding tax.

Effin LED's man. With it being such a common problem, I can't believe they never mention flashlighting in the many reviews I read. They all talk about how great LED's are but never mention it in any cons.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Local dimming is a technology that helps with flash lighting and having halos around bright objects. Here's a quick read:

http://reviews.cnet.com/2795-6482_7-399.html

My Sony KDL-55HX850 is an edge lit LED with local dimming and, when set up properly, has no issues with flash lighting or clouding. My Sony is a bit more expensive than the other LED models, but IMO has a better picture and the price is justified.

I still think that plamas are the best picture for the dollar, but can be problematic for bright rooms or for extended periods of gaming, which is why I got the Sony.

Drenis

Which model of Sharp? I know 2 years ago the 810/820 series Quattrons were TERRIBLE. About a 20% chance you would get a good panel and have very good black levels (not 100% perfect). My 920 series Sharp is fantastic. Got real lucky with that panel. Mine leaks a very little. Don't know much on the new models as I haven't been following up with how they are doing.

Very common with Edge lits as suggested above. Buy a full-array back lit LED as it is superior to the edge lit sets and will net you a better black picture.

organ

Thanks for the link, Assimilated. Looks like mine doesn't have local dimming. I went through the entire menu and can't find it. I can't say I've experienced any halo's around bright objetcs. I watched scenes from Sweeney Todd and Hostel last night on blu ray to test because those two films have extreme dark and light parts.
Unfortunately the shop I purchased from doesn't carry Sony. Only LG, Panasonic, Samsung and Sharp. So I would have to exchange it for one of those.
I just checked out the flashlighting again and it looks like it has gone down by about 50% now that the tv has been sitting on its stand for almost 24hrs. I'm thinking the liquid crystal screen had sagged a little during shipping or in the store and I hope it clears out. If it doesn't than I'll have no choice but to try something else.

organ

Drenis wrote: »

Which model of Sharp? I know 2 years ago the 810/820 series Quattrons were TERRIBLE. About a 20% chance you would get a good panel and have very good black levels (not 100% perfect). My 920 series Sharp is fantastic. Got real lucky with that panel. Mine leaks a very little. Don't know much on the new models as I haven't been following up with how they are doing.

Very common with Edge lits as suggested above. Buy a full-array back lit LED as it is superior to the edge lit sets and will net you a better black picture.

Hi Drenis,
It's the LC-60LE640U. As I mentioned on my post right before this one. It has gone down quite a bit. If it goes away or goes down to a tolerable level, I will most likely keep it because I love the size and pic quality.
I'm very happy with the black levels. It's only the few spots affected that pisses me off.
I don't think I can afford full-array back lit. I've already spent more than my initial budget on this one.

badchad

If it's intolerable, return it. After TV shopping for some time, I've found that almost EVERY set will have some problem that people will pick up on or report. With the Panasonic plasmas, some people complain of fan noise and/or the inherent buzzing sound that plasmas make. I'm sensitive to little sounds, so I decided to roll the dice with the Sharp 70" LED.

If it disappoints (or I have interpolation effects), I'll return it for the Panny.

mantis

organ wrote: »

Forgot to mention.
One thing I'm worried about with plasma is screen burn. I use my tv a lot for flight simulator and some video games. I also browse the web on my tv because my pc is connected to it.

Really hasn't been an issue in years. I wouldn't worry about burn in. I use my Plasma for gaming , PC use and every other damn thing.

I for one think the Sharp LED's are difficult to dial in and get a great picture due to the hot spots from the LED's. It also clouds the picture. I suggest getting a Calibration disc in Blu ray form and try to dial the TV in. It's not going to be easy but it will improve your issue but not make it go completely away.

LED LCD Tv's in general do not reproduce a REAL looking picture. I'm sorry to say that I have only seen one LED TV preform well and thats the Sharp Elite model. Panasonic Plasma's on the other hand IMO are the very best Tv's on the market right now. Nothing I have seen out performs them dollar for dollar and the VT50 series is their best work yet coming extremely close to the Kuro's of yesteryear . Starting with the ST50 series , you'll notice a much better overall color correct more solid black level picture. Much more natural and film like.

Sorry your not completely happy with your purchase but I feel you made a decision based on other factors then getting the best picture for your money. I think a exchange is in your future. Sorry bro.

organ

Badchad,
You brought up an interesting point. Are you talking about the same high frequency buzzing sound that you get on CRT's and CCFL lit LCD's? I'm very sensitive to that sound and it drives me nuts.
I had no idea Plasmas use fans. I'm always worried about any electronics that use fans because of dust build up in different nooks and crannies over time.
I'm really gonna have to think hard about this. Can't believe you're using the 70". I saw it at the shop and it's huge. Must be awesome.

Dan,
Thanks so much for the help. I have an outdated Avia calibration disc but haven't used it yet. So far I'm using the PC setting which is very close to Movie. I avoid any Dynamic settings. My backlight is set to -12 (range is -16 to +16). I use the lower setting because the screen is 60" and I sit a little over 10ft away. The lower backlight setting reduces the hot spots but they're still visible during dark scenes when the room is dark.

If I go plasma, it will either be the Panny TCP60U50 or the TCP60UT50. I don't really care about 3D. I've never demoed any 3DTV. My friends tell me 3D is weird and I don't want to wear glasses while viewing. I would like to stay at 60" because of the epic level of immersion I get when playing Flight Simulator.
If the only difference between the two I listed is the 3D feature, than I will get the cheaper non 3D one and use the remaining store credit I get on extended warranty. The Sharp I got is about $300 more.
But I'm very worried about buzzing sound and fans (please see my response to Badchad first thing on this post).

You're right. I didn't make my decision based on pic quality. I decided based on efficiency. But then again, I was coming from an old 46" Samsung 60Hz LCD with poor black levels/contrast ratio and images that basically turns to a blur on med to fast moving scenes. So just about anything offered today looks better lol.

I'm really confused now. I will be exchanging it this coming weekend but still don't know what to go for. It will most likely be the Panasonic plasma but I'm very worried about buzzing sound and the fan. And at the same time, it seems like going LED is like playing a lottery when it comes to flashlighting. I don't want to keep going back and forth exchanging big tv's.

I'm already pissed at the fact that I have to box this one back up and return it. It's not fun boxing and unboxing something this big.

I will keep you guys posted. This coming Sunday, I'll be exchanging it for something else.

gdb

If my Panasonic has a fan, I didn't know it, and, I definitely have never heard it either.

(TCP50G10) approx 3 years old

organ

gdb wrote: »

If my Panasonic has a fan, I didn't know it, and, I definitely have never heard it either.

(TCP50G10) approx 3 years old

Interesting. I'll have to check the models I'm interested in to see if they have fans. Do you get any buzzing sound?

badchad

I own an old (about 6 years), low quality 50" plasma. It's not even 1080p, and only has 1 HDMI input (it's an Akai). It's important to note my set, because it's my reference point.

My plasma emits a low, high pitched buzz and its especially prominent on very bright imagery (e.g. a full white scene). The normal operation of the TV at normal volume levels masks the "buzz" almosts completely. I only noticed it one night when I had the TV muted. Unfortunately, once I noticed it, it sort of drove me nuts.

There are sporadic reports of a similar buzz associated with plasmas in general (even the panasonics). Many people claim there is no buzz whatsoever (see the above poster). I couldn't discern any buzz in the store environment, but didn't expect to hear anything due to ambient noise.

I chose my new TV in reference to my aging old plasma. Compared to my current set, EVERYTHING probably has superior blacks, colors, etc. I'm aware the vast majority of people prefer plasma. In my case, I opted for the extra 5" of screen real-estate, and figured that I wouldn't realize what I'm missing. The set is on its way, but I don't have it yet.

With my current set, there are reports of "clouding", "flashlighting", motion blur etc. Like the plasmas (and any other equipment) some people don't have any issues. I have 30 days and a guarantee, so I'm going to get my set and decide.

Side-by-side and properly calibrated, I'd probably prefer the plasma, but compared to my current set, the 70" will probably "wow" me just as much. At least that's what I'm hoping.

gdb

organ wrote: »

Interesting. I'll have to check the models I'm interested in to see if they have fans. Do you get any buzzing sound?

Nope, never. I wouldn't keep a TV that buzzed.

Drenis

organ wrote: »

it seems like going LED is like playing a lottery when it comes to flashlighting. I don't want to keep going back and forth exchanging big tv's.

To be fair, a LED LCD unit should be bought for and used in bright rooms. Rooms which receive a generous amount of natural light all the time is where these sets shine. If you can make your room dark and NOT have a lot of natural light then Plasma IS the better choice. Other are free to disagree. However, we purchased our TV BEFORE we moved with the concept that we would have more light then we did. Maybe in a nother year or two I'll upgrade to a Plasma. Until then, BBC's Life series is breathtaking to watch on my calibrated set. (Mantis is right that these are hard to get right)

mantis

organ wrote: »

Badchad,
You brought up an interesting point. Are you talking about the same high frequency buzzing sound that you get on CRT's and CCFL lit LCD's? I'm very sensitive to that sound and it drives me nuts.
I had no idea Plasmas use fans. I'm always worried about any electronics that use fans because of dust build up in different nooks and crannies over time.
I'm really gonna have to think hard about this. Can't believe you're using the 70". I saw it at the shop and it's huge. Must be awesome.

Dan,
Thanks so much for the help. I have an outdated Avia calibration disc but haven't used it yet. So far I'm using the PC setting which is very close to Movie. I avoid any Dynamic settings. My backlight is set to -12 (range is -16 to +16). I use the lower setting because the screen is 60" and I sit a little over 10ft away. The lower backlight setting reduces the hot spots but they're still visible during dark scenes when the room is dark.

If I go plasma, it will either be the Panny TCP60U50 or the TCP60UT50. I don't really care about 3D. I've never demoed any 3DTV. My friends tell me 3D is weird and I don't want to wear glasses while viewing. I would like to stay at 60" because of the epic level of immersion I get when playing Flight Simulator.
If the only difference between the two I listed is the 3D feature, than I will get the cheaper non 3D one and use the remaining store credit I get on extended warranty. The Sharp I got is about $300 more.
But I'm very worried about buzzing sound and fans (please see my response to Badchad first thing on this post).

You're right. I didn't make my decision based on pic quality. I decided based on efficiency. But then again, I was coming from an old 46" Samsung 60Hz LCD with poor black levels/contrast ratio and images that basically turns to a blur on med to fast moving scenes. So just about anything offered today looks better lol.

I'm really confused now. I will be exchanging it this coming weekend but still don't know what to go for. It will most likely be the Panasonic plasma but I'm very worried about buzzing sound and the fan. And at the same time, it seems like going LED is like playing a lottery when it comes to flashlighting. I don't want to keep going back and forth exchanging big tv's.

I'm already pissed at the fact that I have to box this one back up and return it. It's not fun boxing and unboxing something this big.

I will keep you guys posted. This coming Sunday, I'll be exchanging it for something else.

I never heard a Panasonic fan or any buzzing from one. Now Samsung plasmas , thats another story.

organ

Badchad,
That's the exact same buzzing sound I'm talking about. I know that a lot of people don't hear it but I absolutely cannot stand it. On my old LCD, it's very noticable. Like you, I also noticed an increase in that buzzing sound when the tv is displaying a white image or an image that's predominantly white.
My neighbor has a Panasonic Viera plasma. I've been to his house many times and I don't remember ever hearing the buzz on his set. But were usually playing video games when I'm there, so I really didn't pay attention. I'm going there in the next few days and I'm gonna have a close listen.
Hope the 70" works out for you. These Sharp LED's look superb when the screen is perfect. It seems to be a hit or miss with clouding and flashlighting but you do have the 30 day exchange.

Gdb,
Cool. Thanks.

Drenis,
Nice. Glad you're enjoying it. I didn't really think about lighting. After reading a bunch of reviews, nobody really complained about black levels of LED's and I assumed it would be as good as plasma. But yeah, LED's can really shine in a bright room. I noticed they have more "pop" in the shop. Of course that's with the default over the top settings.

Dan,
That's great to hear. Thanks.

jbooker82

Idealy there should be no pop if all tv's sold were IFS calibrated from the factory. Other wise the pop you see is a marketing ploy to try to get you to buy theirs over the competors. If they were all calibrated then the difference you would see would be due to better or worse hardware.

leftwinger57

This is years going back now but I believe Consumer Reports that the 42'' Samsung was the best tv bar none. I relize times have
changed but did they slide down hill that much.Me w/ my Toshiba couldn't be happier except it's a 37 and not a 42.

MADGSF

I hate to pile on, well not really, but get a Panasonic plasma and be done with it. My Panasonic has fans and you would not know it unless you went to it and checked, no buzzing at all. Samsung plasmas had a big problem with buzzing power supplies. No problem with burn in and I abuse my TV, we will regularly pause a live show or Blueray for 20 minutes while we talk on the phone with no ill affects. I also have a bright room and to me it looks great day or night. I just don't feel LCD/LED technologies are at the same level as plasma and I think Panasonic makes the best plasman TVs.

organ

jbooker,
That's right. I already know about it. I was talking about LED having more pop in the shop due to the high back lighting. They can go much brighter than plasmas from what I hear. I mentioned it because Drenis was talking about how LED's are usually better for rooms with a lot of lights. But yeah, properly calibrated sets won't have that pop.

Leftwinger,
That's how it looks at the moment. I see more complaints around the net about Samsung than the others.

Madgsf,
Thanks for the info. Going back to the shop tomorrow to exchange it for a Panasonic 60" plasma. I'll let you guys know which model I end up getting.

I've been using this Sharp for the past week and the clouding is not getting any better. In fact, now I'm noticing many small hot spots on the bottom when I have the PC on. I can see it on the Windows Task Bar. The small bright spots are where the LED's are placed along the edge of the display. It's too bad, I really like the looks of this display, and after calibration, this set consumes only 73 watts! I also really like the OPC feature which controls brightness according to ambient lighting. I hope the Panny plasma I'm getting has something similar. It gets it right on everytime.

On the other hand, it didn't stop me from checking out my DVD's and BR discs. This is the biggest screen I've ever owned and the size and clarity makes me view movies in a different way. I notice more "camera work" now. I notice the motion of the camera more. It feels so different and it allows me to enjoy films even more. And with the clarity, there are times I felt like I'm looking through a glass window. The size really makes you feel like you are there.

I'm really looking forward to the plasma tomorrow. I can't imagine the picture and immersion getting any better but everyone says plasma looks more realistic.

Thanks again to everyone for their help. Will update soon.

organ

Alright guys. I got the Panasonic TC-P60U50 plasma. This thing is out of this world. Been used to my LCD display and lived with LED for a week and I feel the picture on plasma is superior. It looks so much more natural and the colors looks more lifelike. And I love the way things stay razor sharp during fast moving scenes. I'm so happy with this purchase. Only downside is this display sucks a lot of juice. Been monitoring the power consumption on my power center and it's quite high. Oh well.
So I just want to thank everyone for their help. If it weren't for this thread, I probably would have gone for another LED.