My new 4.1TL's are complete!

drselect

Very Nice..

Bigbang

Neil,

Very nice work. I love the story. I had a Classic Stereo in my town and went in for a listen and was treated to Supertramp's Breakfast in America on a pair of SDA SRS speakers and will never forget it. I walked out of there with a pair of 5jr's and now 25 years later I'm on my way to pick up some SDA CRS+'s that may be my final speaker. I love your maple veneer and I would like to do the same. Do you have any advice or tips for applying the veneer. Where did you get the veneer? What tools do I need?

By the way. I still have my 5jr's with upgraded covers and they still sound great.

Thanks,

David

EndersShadow

Bigbang wrote: »

Neil,

Very nice work. I love the story. I had a Classic Stereo in my town and went in for a listen and was treated to Supertramp's Breakfast in America on a pair of SDA SRS speakers and will never forget it. I walked out of there with a pair of 5jr's and now 25 years later I'm on my way to pick up some SDA CRS+'s that may be my final speaker. I love your maple veneer and I would like to do the same. Do you have any advice or tips for applying the veneer. Where did you get the veneer? What tools do I need?

By the way. I still have my 5jr's with upgraded covers and they still sound great.

Thanks,

David

Wow, Indianapolis Polkies keep popping up recently. Good luck with the CRS's. Are they the originals or the CRS+'s?

Bigbang

They are the +'s. I think. Single tweeter, blade/blade. Not sure what driver or year yet. Still in my truck coming back from Columbus, OH. They are in decent shape for 150.00. I suspect I'll triple that in upgrades. Lol

EndersShadow

Bigbang wrote: »

They are the +'s. I think. Single tweeter, blade/blade. Not sure what driver or year yet. Still in my truck coming back from Columbas, OH. They are in decent shape for 150.00. I suspect I'll triple that in upgrades. Lol

Easily lol. Yes, those are the +'s. I ask because I know there is a fella in Greenwood with the CRS's and was wondering if thats where you were headed.

I am in Zionsville BTW so we are neighbors .

Bigbang

Great. Hi neighbor. I purchased some SRS's near Zionsville about three years ago, maybe four. I like to listen, tinker, listen and repeat. Neil's CRS+ 4.1tl's with those stands from Larry are a work of art.

nspindel

Hi David -

Thanks for the compliments. I have to say, I just couldn't be happier with how these speakers came out. As for the veneer work, the best advice that I can give you here is that if you don't know what you're doing, I'd find someone else to do it for you. That's precisely what I did. I know my way around a hammer and nails well enough, but I didn't feel nearly confident enough in my woodworking skills (or my tool collection) to do this job myself. The last thing I wanted was to sink a small fortune into these speakers, and then have the finish woodwork come out shoddy looking. So I enlisted my brother-in-law's help. He's quite a sophisticated woodworker, and has a woodshop with every tool I could think of. So he did all the veneer work and it came out great. We didn't order the veneer online, we just got it from a local woodworking store. If you're going to get into an exotic wood, that may be tougher to track down, but for just your basic maple, most quality woodworking stores should sell it. I wouldn't want to give you any more advice than that, though, because the woodworking part is just not my forte.

Neil

teekay0007

Bigbang wrote: »

I like to listen, tinker, listen and repeat.

Now, that there is what signature lines are made of! :cheesygrin:

vcwatkins

Just wanted to thank you, Neil, for this write-up. I have no experience in any of this stuff other than replacing a few caps or making a few solder repairs. But with: a) this thread, b) related ones from DarqueKnight, F1Nut, Toolfan66, and Gimpod, c) Gimpod's boards and site, d) Larry's rings and case, and e) Neil's transformer group buy, I put together some 4.1tl's and a Dreadnought. It took a several sessions but came off without a hitch. And I cannot believe how good they sound!

Moving 'em back to the office rig tonight for burning in, and starting on the 1.2's this week.

Thanks guys!

Craig

canadianicon25

nice. is that a tube amp below the turntable?

nspindel

vcwatkins wrote: »

Just wanted to thank you, Neil, for this write-up. I have no experience in any of this stuff other than replacing a few caps or making a few solder repairs. But with: a) this thread, b) related ones from DarqueKnight, F1Nut, Toolfan66, and Gimpod, c) Gimpod's boards and site, d) Larry's rings and case, and e) Neil's transformer group buy, I put together some 4.1tl's and a Dreadnought. It took a several sessions but came off without a hitch. And I cannot believe how good they sound!

Moving 'em back to the office rig tonight for burning in, and starting on the 1.2's this week.

Thanks guys!

Craig

Wow Craig, that's great. It's a great feeling when you dive into a project that you think is way over your head, and then come out on the other side and you're so happy that you did it, because you end up with something that you're proud of and can show off! I'm happy that this thread helped you out. What parts did you use for your crossovers? How did you mount them?

What will you be using to drive these?

nspindel

canadianicon25 wrote: »

nice. is that a tube amp below the turntable?

It's a tube preamp. Dared MC-7P. It's the phono stage as well.

vcwatkins

nspindel wrote: »

Wow Craig, that's great. It's a great feeling when you dive into a project that you think is way over your head, and then come out on the other side and you're so happy that you did it, because you end up with something that you're proud of and can show off! I'm happy that this thread helped you out. What parts did you use for your crossovers? How did you mount them?

What will you be using to drive these?

Sonicaps on tweeters
Solens on mids (needed to limit my budget a bit here while getting my feet wet; will use Sonicaps on the 1.2s)
Mills resistors (will likely use Dueland for 1.2)
Cardas posts
old inductors (not sure whether to replace on 1.2's)
Sonic Barrier (will use No-Rez on 1.2)

Used strategically placed little squares of Sonic Barrier as risers, held down with zip ties stapled and glued to cabinet bottom and looped through the board's corner holes.

Currently using with Dared pre and Pass Aleph 30 in the office rig. I recently found a great deal on a Dared I-30. It sounds amazing running the 1.2's, but I may use it in the office with the 4.1's instead, depending on whether it turns out to have enough muscle in the den over the long haul.

LOVE the 198 tweeters! This is the first time I've heard a TL. So glad I did this! Hi rez Stanley Clarke School Days is AMAZING. Very pleased with a little over $450 total in them. Cheers!

Craig

Already wishing I had bought 2 transformers! LOL

nspindel

You may want to think about at least doing iron core inductors in them, they're a fair bit cheaper than the air core ones I used. Look up Erse inductors, I can get more specific if you need me to. Did you use the stock inductors on the board?

drgalexo

Just beautiful!!

vcwatkins

nspindel wrote: »

You may want to think about at least doing iron core inductors in them, they're a fair bit cheaper than the air core ones I used. Look up Erse inductors, I can get more specific if you need me to. Did you use the stock inductors on the board?

Will check into those, thanks.

Yep, used what was on the boards. Need to do some searches on 1.2 inductor replacement. Think DK did this IIRC.

nspindel

The problem I think DK had with the 1.2's is that Jantzen didn't make a like-for-like replacement for some of them, so he had to buy larger value inductors, and then unwind them until they were at the correct value. The problem for us mere mortals is that the meter to accurately measure the inductance is quite expensive. The nice thing about the 4.1TL inductors is that Jantzen has stock parts that replace all three of them - gauge of wire, inductance, and DCR are all correct.

nspindel

I put up a separate thread about how I've had to give up the two channel room to be a storage room for boxes as I start packing up the basement getting ready to move next year. So I figured I would be conservative and strip the speakers down a bit for the trip. I removed the drivers, wrapped them each individually in cardboard and then laid them face up in boxes with plenty of styrofoam peanuts. I also removed the inductors and packed them up, and the binding post cups and all the wiring harnesses (planning to do the DarqueKnight wire upgrade when I have some time!). Inside both speakers, the adhesive on the velcro had given way from the wood cabinet, and the crossovers were laying on top of the polyfill. When I reassemble them after the move I will be following Larry's advice and using hot glue to secure the crossover base to the top of the cabinet.

I spent $8 combined on two heavy duty 18" x 18" x 24" boxes and packed the cabinets up with foam. All set to travel. I will miss them until we arrive at the next destination. Now is when I appreciate also having a good headphone setup!

nspindel

I like to wake this thread up any time I tweak these. I've mentioned previously that my wife and I were planning on moving soon, but that's been put on hold for now, so I've unpacked all the gear and set my room up again. I took the opportunity to get the last remaining tweaks done to the 4.1TL's. I replaced the binding post cup with Trey's plates, replaced the SDA binding post with a Speakon connector, constructed all new wiring harnesses using Cardas Litz cable, replaced the polyfill, and re-did the grill cloth. I also replaced the new-stock drivers with vintage 6510's and 6511's. While I had the room taken down, I took the opportunity to get my Krell amp re-capped. I happen to live about 40 minutes away from Krell headquarters, and thinking I'd be moving away, it made sense to get the amp serviced while I could still drop it off and pick it up rather than having to ship it. So now I've got everything reassembled, and the sound is just superb. Audio memory doesn't serve me well enough to be able to meaningfully compare the sound of the stock internal wiring to the Cardas, for example, but suffice it to say that even with the re-capped Krell still breaking itself in, the sound is just great. I'm very happy to have my music room back. Here are a few pics:

Front/back of the binding post plates with the new Cardas Litz:

New Cardas wiring harnesses:

Huge thanks to DarqueKnight for all the great research with the Cardas Litz. As I mentioned at the beginning of this thread, my work is 100% imitation and 0% innovation. This forum has so many gifted members who blaze the trails and give exact instructions for dummies like me to reproduce.

Here's a photo of the binding post plate all mounted with cables attached:

And here's a photo of the front of one of the speakers with the refinished grill cloth. Big thanks to Westmassguy for the tips on how to handle the grill cloth, especially using the 3M glue.

The last thing I need to do is add the Polk logos back to the grills. The logos are a bit tarnished, so I'm going to hit them with some gold model paint before reapplying them.

So to summarize everything I've done to these 1989 CRS+'s:

- Stripped original oak veneer and trim, repaired cabinet dings with bondo and re-veneered, re-trimmed with maple and finished with tung oil
- Dynamat Extreme applied to driver and passive radiator baskets (and to Trey's binding post plate).
- All sealing gaskets (except tweeter) re-done with Armacell, including the binding post plates.
- JB Weld had already been applied to the vintage 6510's and 6511's I acquired.
- Crossovers rebuilt with Tony's boards, Sonicaps, Dueland resistors, and Jantzen inductors, then mounted using Larry's technique of a Lexan backer.
- TL mod with Sonicaps.
- RD-0198 tweeters.
- Solen 16mH SDA inductor.
- Cardas CCGR binding posts.
- Speakon SDA connectors.
- Cardas Litz wiring harnesses.
- VR3 binding post plates.
- Larry's rings, including tweeter brackets and binding post rings.
- Sonic Barrier applied to side walls.
- Acousta-stuff polyfill
- Mellotone premium grill cloth.
- Larry's incredible CRS+ stands.
- 1000VA Dreadnaught mounted in Larry's enclosure with Cardas CCGR posts.

nspindel

I should mention that I replaced the two leads off the crossover to attach to the 16mH inductors using Cardas Lits as well.

vcwatkins

Excellent update. Thanks for taking the time.

Was the Cardas a pain to strip? Or is this a different cable than what DK used? (Or is my memory someone else's Cardas upgrade completely scewed up?)

westmassguy

The Look great. Glad I could help

nspindel

This is the same cable that DK used. However, I did purchase and use a solder pot, which made tinning the ends a breeze. DK has since purchased a solder pot as well.

teekay0007

nspindel, that $300 (shipped) you said you wanted for them is going to include the Polk emblems re-spiffied and reattached, right?

PM sent... ;-)


OMG! Just kidding....those are the most incredible CRS+'s I've ever seen. Would LOVE to hear them. VERY nicely done!

nspindel

teekay0007, don't I recall that you have a pair of CRS+'s?

teekay0007

nspindel wrote: »

teekay0007, don't I recall that you have a pair of CRS+'s?

No, just wishful at this point. And I've got your modding/upgrading threads all subscribed to for future reference. Thanks for doing such a nice job of documenting your project for the rest of us.

Currently, my only pair of SDAs is a pair of 2BTLs.

nspindel

Nothing wrong with 2BTLs!

teekay0007

nspindel wrote: »

Nothing wrong with 2BTLs!

No, not at all. It's just the first evident manifestation of the SDA disease here!

Other Polks? Now, that's another story - between my house and those channeled through here to other family members' homes - Monitors (4, 7, 5Jr, 7, 10), LSis (7, 9, 15, C, FX), LSiMs (703), PSWs (10, 111), DSWs (PRO500, 550Wi), MicroPROs (2000, 3000), VMs (10, 20, 30), CSs (10, 20, 400, 400i, 175i), RTA-11Ts, S4s, Atriums, UltraFit 3000s, etc., etc.

Yikes! How did this happen?!

nspindel

Sounds like my house. I have 18 Polk speakers besides my SDA's!

Oldfatdogs

Beautiful job,I bet they sound great.Enjoy.

Dan