SRS: "New" speakers for an old man

gasman

My first post here, but been lurking about for the last couple of weeks. Just bought a pair of used SDA SRS speakers and am currently just powering them with a single amp, Pioneer Elite M-90, which has served me well over the years. I heard these speakers years ago in a small audio specialty shop in Little Rock, Ark, and wanted them for a long time. Got the cable and manual as well and have read thru it a couple of times.

They sound very open and clean, but I am just a bit disappointed in the bass, as I was hoping for a bit more punch. Could be my room placement, or that I just need more power going into them. (Pioneer amp is 200/ch) I also have a couple of powered subwolfers in the room, which help out the low end more, but was hoping to maybe not need them, and save some space. The subs are a M&K V90, and Definitive Tech Powerfield 18tl. With the frequency response specs of the SDA SRS, I thought I would get some really deep bass with them alone.. I could be spoiled with the subs also, but was wondering if you guys that have had these speakers for some time can comment, and if I am just wishing for more than what the SDA SRS can deliver. Tell me what you think.. In the mean time I will keep moving em around in my 12 x 20 room and see what I come up with .. Thanks :rolleyes:

F1nut

Mike,

Welcome to the forum and congrats on a fine speaker.

Not knowing exactly what your room has in it or your layout, I'm going to throw a few things out. If you have carpeting or not, get some spikes for the feet. Move the speakers closer to the back wall, I have my SDA 2.3TL's at 5.5". They should be a min. of 6' apart inside edge to inside edge and parallel with the back wall with at least 3' from any side wall.

What are you using for a source? What kind of IC's and speaker wire are you using? Is the Pioneer a high current amp? I also think you may be use to a un-natural amount of bass, I find the SDA's to have a natural balance, plenty of bass.

Tour2ma

gasman,
Always nice to welcome a fellow SRS owner... welcome.

As big and powerful as they are, they are rolling off at 30 Hz and are all but gone by 25. Moving yours around may improve your base, but since you cannot corner them it's doubtful the responce will improve much. On the other hand you will get some good exercise.

F1's tip on the spikes is a good one and should help if they're on carpet. Putting all the energy into driver movement and not cabinet movement, as slight as it might be, is desirable.

Also agree you may be used to more bass. Question here is the combined power to your two subs vs. what you are supplying the SRS's. I'm guessing it's more than 400 watts.

Lastly, since the SRS's are nominal 5 ohm speakers, they may be asking for more current from your Pioneer than it may be capable of.

gasman

Thanks guys, will give the spikes a try.. as of right now I have them sitting flat on the floor.. The Pioneer amp is an older one, but it was at the time their top of the line amp.. so I dug out the spec sheet on it, and it is rated to deliver over 800 watts into 2 ohms dynamic power.. at 8 ohms it is rated at 200 watts continous, the thing weighs a ton. My signal sources are basically a pre amp out from my Onykyo receiver, and I have hooked to it a Sony cd , pioneer cd, and a Mitsibishi combo cd/dvd player. I am using the optical output on the Mitsibishi. The speaker wire is pretty generic, but it is of higher gauge than the standard zip cord you buy at Wal Mart. All of my RCA connections are gold plated, but not name brand.. I may look at replacing those as well.


I did make a mistake on listing the 2 subs I am using.. the M&K is a MX 90.. 125 watts, not the VX model. Together with the 18" Definitive sub they are at 500 watts rating.

I didn't really expect powered subwoofer output, but was looking at some fast tight responce, similar to the smaller driver types used in the Bose 901s for example. Thanks again, and I will keep trying.

Tour2ma

Well the amp power is certainly not an issue if yours is linear from 8 to 2 ohm. It should be delivering 350 wpc to the SRS's. It's definitely high current.

I take "flat on the floor " to mean bare floor and no feet. The SRS's came with feet and spikes. If you don't have the feet I read here somewhere a while ago that HD sells some that fit the threads. Leveling the SRS's on these could help some...

If you don't own Flim and the BB's "Tricycle", buy it. The title track (track 1) was a demo disc when I first heard the SRS's.... very sharp attacks.

Good Luck...

madmax

I have my SRS's on the long wall of about the same size room. They are about 7' from each other, centered and a few inches from the back wall. No, there is not much bass in that position. When I had them on the short wall they had great bass but were too close the side walls which caused problems with the imaging. Actually, the bass in this position was very nice. You could hear every little nuaunce. Just guessing but I bet a room 16 X 22 or so with them on the short wall is what you (and I) need. I've given up on the bass for now. A sub in the corner should work nicely.
madmax

gasman

Tour.. sorry when I meant flat on the floor I should have stated flat on a carpeted floor, but I do have the spikes for them as well, just easier for me to move the speakers around right now with them off. I was hoping to get the positioning correct and then put the spikes back on.

I am definately not unhappy with the SRS's, but just figured the bass would be a bit stronger from such a physically imposing speaker. I am, more than likely, a bit spoiled with the 2 subs pumping out bass a bit stronger than normal.

Thanks again for the advice guys.

bikezappa

Gasman

I also had the same responce as you had regarding the bass. I have had my srs for 15 years and recently found that a really high current amp helps the srs's awaken to life. You appear to have a good amp. I was stupid for years, using a **** sony reciever. Try increasing the bass tone control a small amount. That helped a great deal. You can tailor the sound of the srs's with a good set of tone controls or graphic equalizer. Ghastly, I know, but it helped me.

You can add the spikes and still move the speakers easy. To move I put all the weight on one spike by tilting the speaker. Then rotate on that spike. It takes two or three movements to get into the new position, but you don't tear or get caught in the carpet.

Get some single malt scotch, play some favorite tunes and move those srs's around.

Peter

gasman

Been playing around a bit more since my original post, and have found that slightly increasing the bass frequencies with a graphic equalizer.. in the 16hz to 32hz range seemed to help a bit. I still haven't tried putting the spikes back in, as I am still trying to figure out a good arrangement in my listening/video, living room. My 52" HD TV sits in the middle of a bridge type entertainment center, and with the two sides holding the audio equipment, and the two SRS speakers on each side of that, it is right at 12' wide.. hence it currently all is being located on the long wall of my relatively small room.
I have been spoiled a lot by my subs, and by my previous speakers, bose 901s, and the 1980ish bose series II 601s. These speakers were not quite as critical in placement, and size requirements, and with the same two subs I am using with the SRS's the sound was very good to my old ears. Again I think I was a bit disappointed by the bass because of the listed frequency response, and the actual physical size of the speakers. Seems a speaker with such a large array of drivers, along with the 15" passive radiator, would go as low as say my old 601's that have 2- 8" woofers, and 4 tweeters. I still am tickled with the SRS's, and will probably buy another amp to try and bi-amp them... Maybe along the Adcom, or Carver line. I know they could take more power than what I am giving them now. For fun I did bi-amp them breifly with my Pioneer M-90 amp on the low side and my Onyko receiver on the highs, and the sound was a bit better than it is single amped, but the Onyko can't keep up power wise with the highs.
Thanks again for all the input. If the SRS's had a powered subwoofer instead of the passive radiator, or maybe even a 15" woofer they may sound better imo than they do. Since I am not an engineer by any means, and I believe sound is totally a matter of taste, I am sure many of you think the bass is perfect as they were originally designed.

DarqueKnight

Originally posted by gasman

I have been spoiled a lot by my subs, and by my previous speakers...

Gasman,

As has been stated earlier, the SRSs output steeply rolls off below 30 Hz. However, there is not much musical output in the sub-30 Hz frequency range on most recordings.

Another thing to remember is that the SRSs have very low bass distortion. A lot of what is mistaken for bass "kick" in some speakers is really higher distortion that augments the upper bass frequencies. Most people have to get used to the sound of "clean" distortion-free bass. Clean low bass is "felt" more easily than heard.

As a reference point, I will tell you that I have a pair of SRS speakers in my home theater system along with two large SVS subwoofers (CS Ultras). When listening to music on the home theater system, the dual subwoofers make a small, but noticeable, differance in the bass. Switching in the subwoofers makes the overall sound "fuller", but it really does not "pump up" the bass.

Another reference point is to listen to the sound of bass intruments at a live concert. I don't believe you will notice a lot of "strong" bass unless you are attending a rap concert.

gasman

Raife, you are correct in not hearing sound below 30hz or so, but I think what I was hoping for was a more "moving" sensation from such a large array of drivers. I love the imaging, and clarity the SRS's put out, and with my subs, the music is definately "fuller", but with more of that nice impact on the low end. The more I listen to the SRS's the more I appreciate them, and even if I am a bit disappointed in their low end performance, dynamically, they more than make up for it on their clean, clear cut sound. I have been still moving them around and have found that my "best" sound comes from placing them on the short wall about 2 1/2 feet from the side walls , and 5 feet apart.. with me sitting across the room from them about 12 feet. When I get my larger audio/video room done, I am hoping to experiment some more, especially in getting them further apart.

I have found that some cds, like the Eagles live version of Three Rivers Row, sound amazing. I am just re visiting a lot of my old music now and so much of it is so much more detailed than before ... Thanks again for the comments..

bikezappa

Gasman

I have experimented with the same sda's that you have for many years. Based on your last post your sda's are on the short wall. You may want to consider the following experiment. Instead of sitting 12 feet away try moving your best chair 5 to 8 feet on center from the speakers and grabing your favorite beverage. The magic triangle. The sound gets very big and intimate. Play it loud and you get the "you are there sound".

Not sure how far your sda's are from your back wall, but this also affects the bass and sound stage. I have found that a large TV in between the sda's not very interesting, imaging gets messed up big time. I like nothing between the sda's. Let the **** breath a little.

I hear little or no bass differance with or without spikes. Using a graphic eq. with a boast at 30HZ helped however.

Currently my sda's are about 2 feet from side and back walls and about 5 feet apart. I sit about 12 feet back but if I want to play around I will move the chair much closer.

Experiment!

Progress is deviation from the norm.

madmax

I would suggest getting the best soundstage and cleanest sound you can and forget the bass. Bass is only a small part of the sound. Once everything else is right you will be happy with them. As for bass, you can add a sub. This may sound funny but if you live with the SDA's set up as good as you can get them (forgetting about bass) you will notice that when you add more bass with a sub or whatever, you may not like it any more. You will notice that it sounds unnatural and out of place. I was a bass lover until I found out what the SDA's really offer. The short wall is better for bass but I'll bet the long wall is better for soundstage, definition, liveliness and on and on, and on...
madmax

jdavy

What speaker cables are you using? I had some low grade Monter Cable at first with mine and the sound was unimpressive. I took the cable back to the store and upgraded to the then top of the line Powerline 2 by Monster. Wow, what a difference. I bet your speaker cables are basic. Go and get the latest top of the line from Monster or a comperable company. The cost should be over $100 or more but well worth it.

mikecch

Hi Gasman

I'm new to this forum but, I'm the proud owner of a pair of SDA SRS's. I know this may be a little late but, I read thru your post and would like to make a suggestion based on past experience. What I've learned over the years that if you are not getting the expected bass response, first step is to upgrade or change your preamp. If you haven't done so, you will be amazed at the difference when using a good 2 channel preamp. Next, replace all if your IC's and speaker cable. You don't have to spend a rediculous amount on speaker cable and IC's. There are some web sites that sell good cable at reasonable prices. Check out these sites: signalcable.com, latinternational.com, sonichorizon.com , bettercables.com & psaudio.com. These changes will make a huge improvement to the bass response of your SDA SRS's as well as the overall sound quality. My system:

Parasound A21 power amp
Aragon 28K MKII preamp
Rotel RCD 1066 CD changer (used as transport)
Monarchy 22B DAC
Monarchy Classic Digital interface processor (DIP)
PS Audio Xsteam Plus speaker cable
LAT International IC200 MKII interconnects
Monster HTS 3600 power line conditioner
LAT International power cord for amp and preamp
Signal Cable Digital Power cords for DAC, DIP and CD changer
Polk SDA SRS speaker system

This is an amazing sounding system.

madmax

Originally posted by mikecch
I'm new to this forum but, I'm the proud owner of a pair of SDA SRS's.
Parasound A21 power amp
Aragon 28K MKII preamp
Rotel RCD 1066 CD changer (used as transport)
Monarchy 22B DAC
Monarchy Classic Digital interface processor (DIP)
PS Audio Xsteam Plus speaker cable
LAT International IC200 MKII interconnects
Monster HTS 3600 power line conditioner
LAT International power cord for amp and preamp
Signal Cable Digital Power cords for DAC, DIP and CD changer
Polk SDA SRS speaker system

This is an amazing sounding system.

Welcome to the forum!

Just for the record you don't have any bad habits like using Armor-All on your speakers do you?

madmax

F1nut

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Tour2ma

LOL.... Right about now mikecch is scratchin' his head and saying WTF???

Welcome to the forum, mikecch.