Clamp or no Clamp?

bernardo

Would you please help me make up my mind?

I've read a lot in here and elsewhere... while many agree it is a must, the other camp believes that you do not want to couple the record that much with the table so as not to pass every vibration onto it... I do not recall seeing any opinions in here about this "no clamp" opinion. If I missed it, do let me know.

Pro-Ject Xpression III in the house

Thanks!

-B

rromeo923

I have never used a clamp. Maybe I dont know what I am missing....

gimpod

rromeo923 wrote: »

I have never used a clamp. Maybe I dont know what I am missing....

Or know what your doing. :razz::razz:

Sorry I couldn't help myself :redface:, But you have to admit you did leave yourself wide open on that one.:cheesygrin:

mhardy6647

Some folks think that clamping down a record sucks all of the life out of its reproduction.
That said, I use one of the cheap (and indeed clever) Clearaudio/Souther "Clever Clamps".
Strikes me as a good idea.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/12827/Clearaudio-Souther_Clever_Clamp-Record_Mats_and_Clamps

cnh

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Some folks think that clamping down a record sucks all of the life out of its reproduction.
That said, I use one of the cheap (and indeed clever) Clearaudio/Souther "Clever Clamps".
Strikes me as a good idea.

http://store.acousticsounds.com/d/12827/Clearaudio-Souther_Clever_Clamp-Record_Mats_and_Clamps

Just how does that work, Mark? It seems too light in weight to do much and it has a diamond cut out in the middle; wouldn't that wear down eventually?

cnh

mhardy6647

So... yes, it is a friction fit and yes I am sure it'll wear down eventually - the lifespan is probably commensurate with the price (i.e., mine's still working fine). In the interest of disclosure, the clamp I had came with my Marantz TT15-S1; buy a turntable for around 1500 smackers and get a fee piece of plastic :-)

As to the price of record clamps, here's a frugal Yankee solution - go to your favorite sporting goods supply store (or ice rink) and procure a hockey puck. Drill a precisely centered hole of the proper diameter (which I do not remember offhand... what do I look like, Funes the Memorious(*)?)... and voila, a dandy record clamp!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funes_the_Memorious

unc2701

From my experience, I've had improvements with belt drive tables, but I definitely could detect more motor noise on a direct drive table that was starting to show its age.

On yours, it's worth a shot- if you get a heavy one, you might find the motor needs a little spin to get started.

brgman

I can hear a substantial difference on my VPI with and without the clamp.Using it is much improved detail.
But the VPI may have been built for this where other tables may not be.
I reckon it's like any other tweak.Some hear it and some don't.

cnh

mhardy6647 wrote: »

So... yes, it is a friction fit and yes I am sure it'll wear down eventually - the lifespan is probably commensurate with the price (i.e., mine's still working fine). In the interest of disclosure, the clamp I had came with my Marantz TT15-S1; buy a turntable for around 1500 smackers and get a fee piece of plastic :-)

As to the price of record clamps, here's a frugal Yankee solution - go to your favorite sporting goods supply store (or ice rink) and procure a hockey puck. Drill a precisely centered hole of the proper diameter (which I do not remember offhand... what do I look like, Funes the Memorious(*)?)... and voila, a dandy record clamp!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funes_the_Memorious

Thanks,

I've read quite a bit of Borges and even consider him an "influence", but I'm not familiar with that one.

Here's a blurb from one of my favorites. For Social Scientists trying to describe, explain and even model cultural and human actions during the Postmodern Turn in the Social Sciences in the late '80s through the '90s; a few of us Outliers evoked this story to poke fun at the ever expanding Difference Engine that was being built by French Theorists.

Rigor in Science
by Jorge Luis Borges

"... In that Empire, the Art of Cartography reached such Perfection that the map of one Province alone took up the whole of a City, and the map of the empire, the whole of a Province. In time, those Unconscionable Maps did not satisfy, and the Colleges of Cartographers set up a Map of the Empire which had the size of the Empire itself and coincided with it point by point. Less Addicted to the Study of Cartography, Succeeding Generations understood that this Widespread Map was Useless and not without Impiety they abandoned it to the Inclemencies of the Sun and of the Winters. In the deserts of the West some mangled Ruins of the Map lasted on, inhabited by animals and Beggars; in the whole Country there are no other relics of the Disciplines of Geography."

cnh

mhardy6647

Borges is one of my very favorite authors - it's too bad I can only read him in translation.
Get an anthology of his short stories, I can pretty much guarantee you'll enjoy it :-)

teekay0007

bernardo wrote: »

Would you please help me make up my mind?

I've read a lot in here and elsewhere... while many agree it is a must, the other camp believes that you do not want to couple the record that much with the table so as not to pass every vibration onto it... I do not recall seeing any opinions in here about this "no clamp" opinion. If I missed it, do let me know.

Pro-Ject Xpression III in the house

Thanks!

-B

bernardo, at the rate you're going, based on the NEW RULE you should be able to read the Flea Market For Sale postings for a good deal on a clamp sometime around January 2021! :cheesygrin:


On a side note, Mr. Milburn Drysdale always was a advocate of Clampit (Clampette?....get it?)....ooh, too much caffeine today, no? :eek: :razz:

erniejade

for me using a weight cuts down on some of the noise

bernardo

teekay0007 wrote: »

bernardo, at the rate you're going, based on the NEW RULE you should be able to read the Flea Market For Sale postings for a good deal on a clamp sometime around January 2021! :cheesygrin:

I know :sad: !

The saddest part is I was allowed to buy twice before: 1) when the limit was 15, and 2) before this latest rule. I'm "afraid" that after I get to 100 and I can buy vinyl from George again they are going to decide 200 (or whatever is the number)!!!

bernardo

How exactly did a clamp thread became about Borges?

"(...) A mi se me hace cuento que empezo Buenos Aires:
La juzgo tan eterna como el agua y el aire."

Fundacion mitica de Buenos Aires
Jorge Luis Borges

I like this one, maybe because it reflects my feelings.

Edit: I just cannot get the proper spanish character to post right....

bernardo

Back to the clamp issue, this is the one I was considering:

http://www.needledoctor.com/JA-Michell-Record-Clamp?sc=2&category=421

Any thoughts about this one?

-B

jonicont

My wife makes me wear it. Oh sorry, wrong forum

hochpt21

I have a belt drive and I use a record clamp. I can't tell a discernable difference, but I suppose if you have different/higher end gear than mine it could make a difference.

I just use it because it makes me feel better...the whole 'everything matters' idea.

I do have a couple of warped records, and it really helps with those.

bernardo

jonicont wrote: »

My wife makes me wear it. Oh sorry, wrong forum

Are you trying to get to 100 posts too?

bernardo

hochpt21 wrote: »

I have a belt drive and I use a record clamp. I can't tell a discernable difference, but I suppose if you have different/higher end gear than mine it could make a difference.

I just use it because it makes me feel better...the whole 'everything matters' idea.

I do have a couple of warped records, and it really helps with those.

I don't think my gear can be considered high end :sad: but I'm happy with it. I guess I will have to try it out, but I would hate to waste money on one for no discernible results. Oh well... decisions, decisions

-B

mister pig

Effectiveness of clamping depends on the platter material and intention of the designer. Some tables are meant for the record to be coupled to the platter, and the material the platter is made of is designed to dampen the record. Which tends to be the synthetic material platters, such as acrylic or Delrin. My table has an eighteen pound platter made from PVC, which is close to the resonant frequency of vinyl, heck its a vinyl of a sort.

Other tables with aluminium platters often use a felt mat to decouple the record from the platter. One way is not better than the other, but the sonic results are different.

Regards
Mister Pig

mhardy6647

PVC isn't "vinyl" of a sort; it is vinyl - the plastic being polymerized vinyl chloride.
Polyvinyl chloride is polyvinyl chloride; the stuff from which are made most records and swimming pool liners. It is a very soft plastic.

classic carl

I use the screw on clamp that came with my Music Hall table. I also made a couple of cheap ones to use with my Duals. I use a plastic lid from a salad dressing jar. I drill a hole in the center, turn it upside down and use an office type binder clip to secure it to the spindle of the turntable. You have to be careful that the diameter of the jar lid is not too large because the tonearm could bump into it when it ventures into the deadwax. This is only an issue with an automatic TT because it could interfere with the tonearm lifting itself from the record and returning to the tonearm rest.

Blownrx7

hochpt21 wrote: »

I have a belt drive and I use a record clamp. I can't tell a discernable difference, but I suppose if you have different/higher end gear than mine it could make a difference.

I just use it because it makes me feel better...the whole 'everything matters' idea.

I do have a couple of warped records, and it really helps with those.

I clamp mostly to keep the records flat. My favorite clamp is the cheapest and quite effective. Get a hockey puck for all of a few bucks, drill a hole in the center slightly smaller than the spindle and twist it on like a threaded fastener and it works great. Flattens records, dampens vibes and not too much mass so can be used on almost anything.
This is a no brainer to at least try and really is all you need in most cases imho.

bernardo

I'm thinking it might not make a lot of difference in my table... I might try eventually

thanks for sharing

Fongolio

I use the legendary Joe's The Clamp made of delrin. It's a reflex style and cost a bundle but I'll never sell it. Works great. They were made by Joe who is still banned here. Several Polkies have them. For more info do a search for Joe's The Clamp.

bernardo

Fongolio wrote: »

I use the legendary Joe's The Clamp made of delrin. It's a reflex style and cost a bundle but I'll never sell it. Works great. They were made by Joe who is still banned here. Several Polkies have them. For more info do a search for Joe's The Clamp.

I read all about Joe's clamp a while back (I've been following the forum for as long as I have been a member, albeit a quite one ). One of the reasons I was thinking about the clamp I linked above is that it is the same material. It also seems to have very similar functionality in that you have the washer to put under the record and the clamp pushes down the outer side of the record down, and attaches to the spindle in a similar manner. And it does not cost a bundle...

Dawgfish

Just as an FYI, Joe used to recommend this if you could not get your hands on one of his camps; http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Twister?sc=2&category=421

I can hear a noticeable difference clamped and unclamped on my modded SL1200 MK2. I've tried both the CA clamp and a KABUSA Clamp specifically made for the 1200 with good success. I'm running a Herbies matt on it also, which is a great upgrade for nearly any deck. I use or don't use a clamp a lot of times depending on the type of music and the condition of the record. I can hear a difference in dynamics with my setup between clamped and non-clamped, with the non-clamped having more dynamics. Therefore sometimes when I'm listening to harder edge rock or some classical that I want to have maximum impact (think Wagner's Der Valkerie) I listen without the clamp. When I'm listening to jazz, acoustic, and most other classical, I like to listen with the clamp because I get better detail and less background noise. To the OP, I suggest trying a clamp for yourself with different records and seeing for yourself. You'll never really know if it works for you and your setup until you try. Personally I think it will work great with your table since it has an acryllic platter if I'm not mistaken.

gigbyt

clamp seems to sound better to my ears.

bernardo

Dawgfish wrote: »

Just as an FYI, Joe used to recommend this if you could not get your hands on one of his camps; http://www.needledoctor.com/Clearaudio-Twister?sc=2&category=421

thanks for this link. As far as I can tell, the one I linked to above is very similar. Since it is about a third of the price, I think I'mgoing to give that one a try

treitz3

bernardo wrote: »

Would you please help me make up my mind?

I've read a lot in here and elsewhere... while many agree it is a must, the other camp believes that you do not want to couple the record that much with the table so as not to pass every vibration onto it... I do not recall seeing any opinions in here about this "no clamp" opinion. If I missed it, do let me know.

Pro-Ject Xpression III in the house

Thanks!

-B

Hello, bernardo. For some reason, I choose not to read any responses past your original question but I do choose to answer your question based upon what I have experienced myself. Clamp, clamp, clamp. That's all. Enjoy the music whatever you decide.

Tom

bernardo

treitz3 wrote: »

Hello, bernardo. For some reason, I choose not to read any responses past your original question but I do choose to answer your question based upon what I have experienced myself. Clamp, clamp, clamp. That's all. Enjoy the music whatever you decide.

Tom

Thanks Tom, not a problem. I actually read a lot in favor of the clamp and only a few arguments against that sounded reasonable. I was trying to elicit comments from the no-clamp crowd to sort through this choice
Though it seems not so many here find themselves on that camp...

-B