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  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited August 2012
    I believe you really should give a listen to em in their stock, un-modded state, then you can better understand and appreciate the mods as they're performed. You'll have none of that incremental excitement if you do a "shotgun blast" upgrade all at one time. (IMO):wink:
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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    It is official. I have joined the SDA club. :cheesygrin:

    I got some free time today and I changed out the bad driver and installed the driver Mr. M sent me (thank you). I can't begin to say how happy I am with how they sound. If they continue to get better it will be icing on the cake.

    My room is not set up for the ideal SDA set-up and I'm sure I didn't have the best cd's in for them, but they were fantastic. The bass isn't exactly what I'd call robust, but when I added my coffee table, w/ 2 Infinity 12" subs on my Onkyo 501 amp, they blended together perfectly. Now I need to add another power amp for the SDA's. I am running them out of my Onkyo w/ 140 wpc into 8 ohms.

    My tweeters should be in this week. I want to really give them a listen before I change them out. I do intend to give them the full evaluation and see what mods really make the biggest difference. I know this stuff can be subjective, so I'm hoping I don't say something which would discourage someone from improving their own SDA's.

    I'll be checking in and letting everyone know my progress. Stay tuned...

    Saftgeek-
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,561
    edited September 2012
    It's not a matter of what mod makes the biggest difference. It's the sum total of all the mods.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited September 2012
    Of course performing each mod and evaluating it separately means getting them all done will take a very long time. You must be a patient man :cheesygrin:
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited September 2012
    SDA 1C's don't need subs to fill in the bottom end. Work on your placement and ditch the mediocre subs.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    Patient I am not... If no subs are needed then I am either way underpowered or something in my Onkyo isn't set up right. I will turn off the sub and tweak on them some today. I know my setup isn't optimal for SDA because there is a ginormous entertainment center between them... I can't do anything about that at this point. I can say without a doubt that pulling the one bad driver and replacing it has done wonders. I really am very happy and can't wait to move forward...

    -Saftgeek
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited September 2012
    Don't put a big tall 6' entertainment center between them I did the same thing and the SDA effect did not work. The speakers front needs to be at least even with the obstructions in between.

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?45468-Why-were-SDA-s-discontinued-by-Matthew-Polk

    SDA was a radical departure from the traditional audiophile concept of how audio should be reproduced and many of the salespeople in stores at that time were audiophiles. As a result, many of them hated SDA and steered customers away from them. In addition, because of the way SDA speakers work many retailers did not get them set up properly for demonstration which didn't help either.


    I use subs but only for action movies but not music.
    I use a Onkyo 808 135 wpc in pure audio mode and it is plenty for the loudness I require.

    Saftgeek wrote: »
    Patient I am not... If no subs are needed then I am either way underpowered or something in my Onkyo isn't set up right. I will turn off the sub and tweak on them some today. I know my setup isn't optimal for SDA because there is a ginormous entertainment center between them... I can't do anything about that at this point. I can say without a doubt that pulling the one bad driver and replacing it has done wonders. I really am very happy and can't wait to move forward...

    -Saftgeek
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited September 2012
    My setup is exclusively 2-channel, so I'm not certain about this. But I'm fairly sure that when you use a home theater receiver for two channel, and you want to listen without the sub or subs, you must set the receiver accordingly. If you play 2-channel music in a HT mode using a subwoofer, the receiver is actively routing the lower frequencies to your sub(s). If you turn the subs off, your bass is going nowhere. You need to tell the receiver that you're not using the subs, so the lower frequencies are pushed to the SDA's instead. If you don't adjust the HT receiver properly, you'll almost certainly not have any bass.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited September 2012
    Also, in your mods research, you should get your read on about inductor replacements, you'll likely find your way to Solens. If you wanted to evaluate the impact of the inductor swapping, the last thing you want to have in the mix are subwoofers.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • PolkieMan
    PolkieMan Posts: 2,446
    edited September 2012
    In Pure Audio Mode all settings and channels for subs and surround modes and tone and loudness are turned off.
    I know what you are referring to there is setting where you tell the receiver to route the lower frequencies (LFE) to the subs and you do this by telling it what size front speakers you have and on the better units you can limit the fronts to stop at 50,100,150,200 Hz
    POLK SDA 2.3 TLS BOUGHT NEW IN 1990, Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-198
    POLK CSI-A6 POLK MONITOR 70'S ONKYO TX NR-808 SONY CDP-333ES
    PIONEER PL-510A SONY BDP S5100
    POLK SDA 1C BOUGHT USED 2011,Gimpod/Sonic Caps/Mills RDO-194
    ONKYO HT RC-360 SONY BDP S590 TECHNICS SL BD-1
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited September 2012
    Btw, I'm seeing that you're looking to start hitting up all sorts of mods, so I think I'll chime in a bit with my 2 cents. Now that we've established that your Onkyo is common ground, you've got plenty of other things you can be looking at and spending your money on besides an AI-1/Dreadnought. And you're lucky that you were able to get a pair in mint cosmetic condition, so that let's you focus on the electronics mods rather than woodworking and grill cloths.

    So if you're getting ready to start crossovers, then you should understand a bit of the "might as wells" that you should consider.

    If you're going to re-do crossovers, have a look at Gimpod's boards. The components that they built the crossovers with in the 1980's were far smaller than the film capacitors and larger resistors that you'll be using today. Gimpod's boards have a lot more room to work with, and now would be the time to use them!

    If you're going to use Gimpod's boards, you'll need to figure a way to mount them. If you look up toolfan66's CRS+ rebuild thread, you can see how he did it. I completely copied his method for my CRS+ project. You could do the same with your 1C's.

    And crossover mods can quickly lead to inductor mods. Again, if you change out the inductor, you'll need to figure out how to mount the inductor. In my CRS+ rebuild i've used cable ties to secure a piece of wood on the inside of the inductor, and then I'm using the stock bolt hole in the cabinets with a nylon bolt through the piece of wood. I'm planning on using armacell on the piece of wood when I do the final assembly to make sure I get no air leaking from the inductor bolt. You could do the same thing with the 1C's inductor bolt.

    Also this is a convenient time to do binding posts. Lots of people like to use a set of Cardas CCGR's on each speaker. And while you're doing that..... You can add another binding post on each speaker and use that for your sda connection. You would no longer need the stock SDA cable. You could use a strand of nice speaker wire instead, and perhaps go Dreadnought at a later date.

    If you do the rings and the seals, the inductors and the crossovers, and redo the binding posts, you'd probably not need to pull the speakers apart again for a long time.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    Thank you for the great suggestions. I know exactly what you're talking about Mr. Polkie. When I selected the pure audio setting it was like listening to a really expensive AM radio. I have been doing some experimenting with the settings. Since this is my HTS I haven't really used it in audio only mode before. I will once again sit down in the upcoming week and see what I come up with, especially since my tweeters are due to come in this week.

    Mr S. I appreciate all the sage advice. I'm going to try to plan my upgrades in a "logical" order, if that really exists??? I really am lucky since the cabinets and the grills are in such good shape. I will do some research on your build and see what I can use to build a plan. Of course if I hit the lotto that would really help me in this rather pricey endeavor. Can't win if you don't play... and I haven't been buying any tickets, so my chances aren't much better than if I did...

    Thanks again all... I will keep you all appraised of my progress.

    -Saftgeek
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited September 2012
    Can you tell that those of us who've done many of these mods live vicariously by helping newbies just getting started? :smile:
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    Well, I don't know how to even start this post... I'm just sick on the inside. I'm pretty sure the replacement driver has suffered some kind of damage in shipping. At low volume (tv viewing levels) the speaker I just received is making an unwanted buzzing/rattling sound. If you gently push in on the bottom of the driver it moves freely, if you push on the top half you can feel the cone dragging on the voice-coil. I am so freaking bummed out right now. I will pull the driver tomorrow and measure the resistance.

    I have truly rode a roller coaster of emotion with this project so far... Since I have tweeters ordered I was actually praying the noise was from a bad tweeter. That is a first. I was actually hoping I had a blown tweeter.

    I guess I'm going to get to try my hand at repairing a driver. I can only say damn!

    -Saftgeek
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,561
    edited September 2012
    You have to apply even pressure around the cone as you push it in. Pushing in just the top or bottom is not the way to test it.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • littlewoodboats
    littlewoodboats Posts: 823
    edited September 2012
    drumminman wrote: »
    Can you tell that those of us who've done many of these mods live vicariously by helping newbies just getting started? :smile:

    Speaking as one of the newbies we appreciate the insights of those who have gone before.
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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    No need to push them when you can hear them dragging. I am in the process of gluing the magnet on the basket. I am totally lost when trying to get the rear of the speaker mounted where the voice coil still moves...

    Saftgeek-
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited September 2012
    Not sure what you mean, or what you're trying to do.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,561
    edited September 2012
    drumminman wrote: »
    Not sure what you mean, or what you're trying to do.

    Neither is he.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    F1 - I think I know what I'm doing. I want to go slow so I can make adjustments and not screw anything up. I've Youtubed and read all the posts I can find about how to re-glue a magnet. I have one half done, and I'm going to post my progress in another thread. I'm hoping some folks chime in and catch me before I make any errors. As of now, I can't screw it up any worse than what it is. Have a little faith. We all crawl before we walk.

    Please follow the repair thread I'm starting now.

    Saftgeek...
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