Bizarre experience with Tsi100 and speaker wire

Clipdat

I had a really strange experience earlier tonight and I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on what may have happened.

I was testing out the brand new NAD C316BEE receiver I purchased hooked up to my also brand new Tsi100s via bare 14gauge speaker wire connections on both the speaker and receiver. All screw down terminals were secure and appeared to have a good solid connection.

I played some music and liked what I heard for the most part, but I noticed that the left hand speaker just doesn't sound quite as "full" or rich sounding as the right side did - almost an effect you would liken to the balance on a receiver being off. Obviously with the brand new receiver I've ruled that out as a problem, and I also listened through the headphone output of the receiver to verify that there wasn't a problem with the CD player.

Now here is where things get strange. While music was playing, I went to the back of the left speaker and attempted to tighten the plastic positive binding post, despite the fact that it was already tight (I guess I had convinced myself it was some sort of connection issue), as I was doing this I heard a small static pop, and then the track that was playing on the CD player stopped and it skipped to the next track.

So, what the hell happened there? Is there some sort of short somewhere in my system that caused a surge to go from the left speaker, back into the NAD, out the RCA cable for the cd player and into it causing a surge there as well and thus skipping to the next track? Is my one Tsi speaker defective in some way?

One of the strangest audio experiences I've ever had and seems like it couldn't have been a coincidence that it happened while I was touching the plastic positive terminal. :frown:

cnh

You can take the jumpers off and test the tweeters and the woofers independently by wiring to the top on both and then the bottom on both speakers to see if there's any problem.

Also, just switch the speaker from L to R, reverse them and see if the sound follows the speaker. If it does not then it's the amp, or more probably the connections on the NAD. NAD amps, integrateds are "notoriously" temperamental about having perfectly wired speaker connections. If you have any stray copper strands or don't have the speaker wire tightened down and in "exactly" the right place, the NAD will balk and do funny things, maybe even shut itself down or produce no sound on the suspect side.

Wiring a NAD is not like shoving a couple of wires onto a normal AVR. You have to take care and be near perfect. I know, I've been there! My NADs have been more difficult to get right than any other amp I've stuck wires into. Not that it's impossible, but you need to make sure "everything" is just RIGHT! That also applies to the wiring on the other side: on the speakers themselves. They must also be tight and right! Sometimes Polk jumpers can be warped and not allow full contact of both terminals. You might want to just use short bare wire runs to act as your jumpers instead if that is a problem!

It might not hurt to also turn off the soft clipping if you haven't?

cnh

Clipdat

cnh, thanks for the reply! The thing is that the backs of my Tsi100s only have one set of binding posts, not two as shown in the images on the polk site!

I am definitely planning to swap the L and R speakers tonight and see what happens.

Regarding the wiring, good tips. I definitely did make sure that the bare wires were twisted tightly and that there were no loose strands. I then carefully inserted them into the holes and screwed down the terminals until they were finger tight.

Also, no soft clipping function that I can tell on my unit.

I'll update the thread again after I try the speaker swap tonight.

cnh

Got you! I didn't realize that the TSI-100s only had one set of speaker terminals, since they are updated versions of the previous M-30s (which do have double binding posts) I just assumed they did too.

Also, checked the NAD site. Evidently softclipping is not on the 316 but on most of the models starting with the 326. Another surprise. Guess I should stop assuming the latest is the same as the last iteration.

Keep us posted!

cnh

Clipdat

Alright, I swapped L and R and tested it again with about 10 different tracks. Things seem to be sounding better now, in that I can actually perceive a nice stereo image, whereas I couldn't before. At least at this point I am fairly certain that the speakers themselves are fine. The "new" L speaker still does sound a hair quieter/less dynamic, but not as bad/noticeable as before.

So, not sure if it was just unhooking & rehooking the cables or what (I didn't touch the NAD aside from torquing down the screwdowns a little more). One thing I think I am still going to do is cut some new lengths of equal distance wire. Right now the L or "problem" channel has a 7 foot length, whereas the right only has about a 2.5 foot length. Not that that should really matter, right?

One thing is for sure though, this NAD sounds incredible. Even on day 2, it's already sounding way more powerful and solid than day 1. I can barley turn the volume knob up before it starts belting out high quality audio - so much for listening at lower levels!

Also at the end of the day, these are just Tsi100s. I feel that I may be trying to unfairly judge them as if they were a much higher end speaker. Obviously I'll be keeping the NAD for life, so I'll just get along with these speakers for now until I can afford a pair of KEF R300s - the absolute best sounding (and most expensive) speaker I have heard so far in my fairly limited exposure to high quality audio!

Drenis

Clipdat wrote: »

Right now the L or "problem" channel has a 7 foot length, whereas the right only has about a 2.5 foot length. Not that that should really matter, right?

Other may chime in and disagree, but try to use equal length for each channel.

tonyb

Other things too can give you the perception one speaker is louder than the other. Such as placement, toe in, and your listening position. Also see if the receiver has speaker level adjustments and make sure both are set equally. You can also adjust to make up for off axis sitting positions.

Make sure none of the speaker cables has any of it's plastic coating caught inside the binding posts on either the speakers or receiver.

rebuy

I don't think wiring up a NAD correctly would be any different than wiring up any other piece of equipment. Stray wires cause problems no matter what brand you are using.

F1nut

Bare wire sucks, use bananas or spades.

Clipdat

tonyb: Thanks for your thoughts! I will experiment a little with placement and see if that makes a difference as well. Good tip on the insulation being caught in the screw down, I did check for the last night to make sure that wasn't the case.

F1nut: Thanks for sharing your opinion, as I am still fairly new to high end audio, but I fail to see how a bare wire connection "sucks". I actually inquired about connectors at the HiFi shop I went to last week where I bought the NAD, and they said the only advantage is that it is easier to hook/unhook the speakers if you are moving them frequently. So to me, that implies that it is a purely cosmetic/convenience thing.

skrol

I wonder if Polk changed the design of the TSi100. Mine have 2 sets of terminals and bi-amp jumpers.

cnh

rebuy wrote: »

I don't think wiring up a NAD correctly would be any different than wiring up any other piece of equipment. Stray wires cause problems no matter what brand you are using.

Normally, I'd agree but my experience says otherwise. I've wired dozens of AVRs. The only one that "ever" gave me any trouble was a Yamaha. Every NAD I've dealt with likes things "perfect", you can slop around on an AVR and it'll still be OK. But not on some amps especially if they have a feedback system (softclipping) like the NAD that continuously monitors what is going to the speaker and how it is responding there can be snags if the connections are not perfect. I haven't had to pay as much "attention" hooking up my Onkyo or my HK, or Pioneers, etc.

In any case, F1nut is right. Bare wire is a pain, especially on NADs and other higher model amps. If you can use quality spades or bananas you'll save yourself a lot of headaches in the end and won't have to constantly check back there. I almost blew a tube amp because my wires came loose a while back and I didn't know it. Talk about scary!



cnh

rebuy

Hooking things up correctly is just that and if you take less care with other units that are not NAD's then I would not want you touching my gear.

jimbo1421

Word salad? ^^^

cnh

Been a while since I've seen that term. Abnormal Psych. undergrad.

Either that or a bad translation by google! Or worse yet, an English major who thinks he/she can write! lol

Speakers that float in toilets can be wired best by plumbers! (I couldn't resist some bad poetry, sorry!)

cnh

Clipdat

LOL, that is hysterical. :razz:

If I may translate:

"The Polk Tsi100 speaker is a fine component of your system, and has been designed to provide an advanced sound stage with accurate imaging. They feature Polk's "Dynamic Balance" tweeters which undergo laser testing to identify and resolve any undesirable diffraction or resonance issues, ensuring the music that reaches your ears sounds precisely accurate and sweet as apple pie.