Good Banana Plugs or Spade Suggestions
EndersShadow
Posts: 17,590
So I am wanting to make some custom speaker cables for my front 3. I plan on making individual bi-wire cables for each of my front 3 channels using Audioquest FLX 14/4 wire. The amp end will be a single connector using all 4 14 gauge strands, and the speaker end will be split where each connector is using 2 14 gauge strands. I plan to solder the wire to the connectors, cover it with nylon techflex and speaker pants.
What I need help with is identifying some good quality somewhat low cost banana or spade plugs. Pepster recommended some plugs from here. I believe the owner is a member of either this forum or one of the carver forums I frequent and is known to be a good guy. I am not sure if I will be doing banana's or spades at this point, but leaning more toward banana's since I dont think my Carver 5 channel works with spades.
I am curious though, I noticed that site had pure copper plugs and spades. I was under the impression that you wanted gold plated copper as copper over time oxidizes and this affects the sound quality. Is that not true?
Regardless looking for some decently low cost banana and spades. Keep in mind they need to be able to accept a really large gauge at the amp end. My GLS locking banana's had very little room to fit the wire on my custom jumpers. I dont want to use the GLS for this as I dont want locking banana's on these.
I dont want to go crazy here since I need a total of 12 pairs of connectors to do all my front 3.
What I need help with is identifying some good quality somewhat low cost banana or spade plugs. Pepster recommended some plugs from here. I believe the owner is a member of either this forum or one of the carver forums I frequent and is known to be a good guy. I am not sure if I will be doing banana's or spades at this point, but leaning more toward banana's since I dont think my Carver 5 channel works with spades.
I am curious though, I noticed that site had pure copper plugs and spades. I was under the impression that you wanted gold plated copper as copper over time oxidizes and this affects the sound quality. Is that not true?
Regardless looking for some decently low cost banana and spades. Keep in mind they need to be able to accept a really large gauge at the amp end. My GLS locking banana's had very little room to fit the wire on my custom jumpers. I dont want to use the GLS for this as I dont want locking banana's on these.
I dont want to go crazy here since I need a total of 12 pairs of connectors to do all my front 3.
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Post edited by EndersShadow on
Comments
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Thats usually the the problem you run into with lower end banana plugs or spades. I know you want low cost but I'm gonna suggest value here which in turn over time will yield great value.
I strongly suggest using Audioquest reusable banana plugs. I use them and they are fantastic as they will take the 14/4 flx no problem at the amp end and make for a beautiful connection on the speaker end.
Where the high value comes in here is down the road when you want to make new speaker wires , these can be reused not thrown away or stored in a closet.
Gold or silver plated copper is the best for terminations.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQuest---Set-Screw-Banana-Plugs-(4-Pack)---Black/9522661.p?id=1218118269261&skuId=9522661Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Vampire spades from Sonic Craft are gold plated copper, cheap, and also on sale right now: http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/spade/vampire.htm"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Thats usually the the problem you run into with lower end banana plugs or spades. I know you want low cost but I'm gonna suggest value here which in turn over time will yield great value.
I strongly suggest using Audioquest reusable banana plugs. I use them and they are fantastic as they will take the 14/4 flx no problem at the amp end and make for a beautiful connection on the speaker end.
Where the high value comes in here is down the road when you want to make new speaker wires , these can be reused not thrown away or stored in a closet.
Gold or silver plated copper is the best for terminations.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/AudioQuest---Set-Screw-Banana-Plugs-(4-Pack)---Black/9522661.p?id=1218118269261&skuId=9522661
I dont disagree with you on your points for the most part. I am familiar with those connectors and have used them and liked them. I am trying to make some really nice long term cables and want to solder the wire to the connector. That isnt possible with those connectors. That and obviously they would be a bit expensive. I admit they are nice and can be re-used, but I am looking for something permanent.Vampire spades from Sonic Craft are gold plated copper, cheap, and also on sale right now: http://www.soniccraft.com/products/connections/spade/vampire.htm
I will definately have to look into those. Any idea as to which ones I would need for the binding posts on a LSi speaker?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
The RG8, the RG6 may work as well."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Enders, Please keep us posted on your final choice. I recently purchased from monoprice and well, "you get what you pay for" . . .
GAC Regenerator PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
Source Lumin U1 Mini into Lampizator Baltic 4 DAC
Pre Cary SLP-05
Power Rogue M180 Dark monos
Mains Salk HT2-TL
Rythmik F12 -
Enders, Please keep us posted on your final choice. I recently purchased from monoprice and well, "you get what you pay for" . . .
G
The GLS Locking banana's are by no mean bad (I have them now) I just dont want locking banana's for these particular cables, and I dont think they would do well with how I plan on soldering the speaker cables with them.
I have used the Audioquest ones Mantis linked to and they are nice, as are all of the GLS audio offerings I have seen. Any of those would make you happy provided your not soldering the cable directly to the connector."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »The GLS Locking banana's are by no mean bad (I have them now) I just dont want locking banana's for these particular cables, and I dont think they would do well with how I plan on soldering the speaker cables with them.
I have used the Audioquest ones Mantis linked to and they are nice, as are all of the GLS audio offerings I have seen. Any of those would make you happy provided your not soldering the cable directly to the connector.
I had a similar project going using Canare starquad 14/4, but my speakers aren't biwireable so I only ran one cable. I think if you mash two 14awg strands together it's ~11awg, and if you mash ~11awg strands together it'd be about 8-9awg? I was originally thinking that the black chrome from GLS might be okay but it states that it only accepts up to 10awg.
The locking banana plugs probably would be hard to hard solder in to stay stable, but by no means impossible. I think the black chrome banana plugs. However if you're looking for cheap and value, my first instinct would be looking at Chinese products. Nakamichi makes decent banana plugs and I've used some in the past. The machining isn't perfect, but I believe it does the job and does the job well. A simple search on fleabay will give you results.
GL and good hunting!2Ch Tube Audio Convert -
I just recently used some of these from Parts Express. I found them to be good quality, nice snug fit on equipment and easy to solder. A bit of heat shrink over the joint finishes the connection off.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-11682 CH - SB Touch, CA 840C, CA 840Av2, PSB Imagine T
HT - Pioneer 1325, Emo UPA-1, MA Silver RS series 7.1 -
I just recently used some of these from Parts Express. I found them to be good quality, nice snug fit on equipment and easy to solder. A bit of heat shrink over the joint finishes the connection off.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=091-1168
Yeah but I dont think they accept a large enough gauge for me. Keep in mind one end will be a combination of 4 14 gauge strands which I think is ~8 or 9 gauge. The speaker ends will be 2 14 gauge wires which I think might put it at or a bit below 12 gauge"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Sorry, wasn't payin' attention. You're right, too small for your needs.2 CH - SB Touch, CA 840C, CA 840Av2, PSB Imagine T
HT - Pioneer 1325, Emo UPA-1, MA Silver RS series 7.1 -
I got the locking ones, and love them*************************
** Bill Clark Windham, VT **
************************* -
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Check out the Cardas website - nice spades and bananas. All sizes.
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=2&pagestring=Bananas
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=1&pagestring=Spadesintegrated w/DAC module Gryphon Diablo 300
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shadowlight wrote: »
Yeah, think I will stay away from those as they dont look much different than what I have now (which wont work well)Check out the Cardas website - nice spades and bananas. All sizes.
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=2&pagestring=Bananas
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=oem&content_id=1&pagestring=Spades
Those look intriguing although I am not sure how the banana's work, do they work like regular ones where you feed the wire inside horizontally, or do you feed the wire in vertically?. I really like the spade options they have, those look like they might just work. Where would I go to find out pricing on them?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I really like the spades and banana's from Luminous Audio as they are meant to be soldered, and are available in gold, silver, or copper.
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EndersShadow wrote: »...one end will be a combination of 4 14 gauge strands which I think is ~8 or 9 gauge...
Doubling the wire takes the gauge down by 3, so (2) runs of 14 gauge would make 11 gauge; and then your (2) runs of 11 gauge would make 8 gauge. So you're wire will be 8 gauge.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
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Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
falconcry72 wrote: »Doubling the wire takes the gauge down by 3, so (2) runs of 14 gauge would make 11 gauge; and then your (2) runs of 11 gauge would make 8 gauge. So you're wire will be 8 gauge.
Thank you Falcon! Thats exactly what I needed to know lol....
So for purposes of looking at the Cardas stuff (which appears to be in inches) I need a inner diameter of 0.128 for a 8 gauge wire and a 0.091 inner diameter for the 11 gauge wire correct?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
EndersShadow wrote: »Thank you Falcon! Thats exactly what I needed to know lol....
So for purposes of looking at the Cardas stuff (which appears to be in inches) I need a inner diameter of 0.128 for a 8 gauge wire and a 0.091 inner diameter for the 11 gauge wire correct?
Those numbers are for solid wire. If yours are stranded they'll be bigger.
hey congrats on 5k!:biggrin:2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
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I'd stick with copper or silver if you can swing it budget wise - brass is copper alloyed with something else (zinc?), and only transmits 60-70% of what copper does IIRC.
On the uncoated copper stuff you could wrap ptfe gas line tape around the banana plug body (like the white plumber's tape but thicker and easier to work with). Wrapping with several layers makes an air tight connection = no tarnish or corrosion. Or you could use heat shrink.You'd have to leave the end that plugs into the binding post unwrapped, but that's easy to clean every so often with fine steel wool."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
falconcry72 wrote: »Those numbers are for solid wire. If yours are stranded they'll be bigger.
Grrr.... why you have to go and ruin a good thing lol.... so should I just overestimate each section by 1 gauge to ensure whatever connectors I get will fit?falconcry72 wrote: »hey congrats on 5k!:biggrin:
WOW.... I really dont ever shut up
, lord knows most of those are probably pointless posts lol. I know I dont have that much to contribute lol. Didnt realize I was close to 5k.....drumminman wrote: »I'd stick with copper or silver if you can swing it budget wise - brass is copper alloyed with something else (zinc?), and only transmits 60-70% of what copper does IIRC.
I dont know if I candrumminman wrote: »On the uncoated copper stuff you could wrap ptfe gas line tape around the banana plug body (like the white plumber's tape but thicker and easier to work with). Wrapping with several layers makes an air tight connection = no tarnish or corrosion. Or you could use heat shrink.You'd have to leave the end that plugs into the binding post unwrapped, but that's easy to clean every so often with fine steel wool.
I would use heat shrink, but I dont want to have to clean the banana or spade end at all.... because I will openly admit I am lazy
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
The Vampire spades and nanners I suggested are over your budget?EndersShadow wrote: »I dont know if I can"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
Hi EndersShadow,EndersShadow wrote: »So I am wanting to make some custom speaker cables for my front 3. I plan on making individual bi-wire cables for each of my front 3 channels using Audioquest FLX 14/4 wire. The amp end will be a single connector using all 4 14 gauge strands, and the speaker end will be split where each connector is using 2 14 gauge strands. I plan to solder the wire to the connectors, cover it with nylon techflex and speaker pants.
What I need help with is identifying some good quality somewhat low cost banana or spade plugs. Pepster recommended some plugs from here. I believe the owner is a member of either this forum or one of the carver forums I frequent and is known to be a good guy. I am not sure if I will be doing banana's or spades at this point, but leaning more toward banana's since I dont think my Carver 5 channel works with spades.
I am curious though, I noticed that site had pure copper plugs and spades. I was under the impression that you wanted gold plated copper as copper over time oxidizes and this affects the sound quality. Is that not true?
Regardless looking for some decently low cost banana and spades. Keep in mind they need to be able to accept a really large gauge at the amp end. My GLS locking banana's had very little room to fit the wire on my custom jumpers. I dont want to use the GLS for this as I dont want locking banana's on these.
I dont want to go crazy here since I need a total of 12 pairs of connectors to do all my front 3.
I'm Douglas of douglasconnection.com, and can help you with those connectors. Yes, they are a little on the expensive side, but well worth the price. These connectors are IMHO the absolute best you can buy because they are not plated. Yes, gold helps prevent corrosion, but it also has a lower conductivity than copper. With the copper connectors, you'll get every bit of signal transferred from your source to your speaker binding posts. As far as corrosion is concerned, yes you will need to polish them up at least once per year.
When making our custom made cables we use deoxit on the clean copper connectors and wire, then assemble, using heat shrink to cover the termination. With these connectors, the contact area is up inside the connector and with the deoxit treatment, plus being away from the air, the connection should remain corrosion free for years. The exposed area of the connector needs to be cleaned at least once a year. When you purchase these connectors, I'll send along some polishing wipes, as well as some deoxit cleaning cloths and rubber gloves to use when handling the copper. We have 3 different wire entry sizes available which cover most any size wire you want to use. I'm PMing you with a really good price on a set of 12 pair of the copper bananas.Sunfire Theater Grand IV
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The Vampire spades and nanners I suggested are over your budget?
No, just need to make sure they can handle the gauge of wire I would use as well as the binding posts on the LSi's. Still researching to see what I should end up with."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Do you own a caliper? They'd definitely handle the gauge."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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I have the double set screw type and w/ the right size driver you can't go wrong. Crimping w/o the proper tool is a waste of time and solder again if not done right has it's own set of problems. As long as you know how to strip the wire and have a tec or jewelers type driver your not getting a better connection.2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E
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Do you own a caliper?
Nope, but my dad might have one at work he can bring home for me to borrow...."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Cardas component sources:
http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=dealers&dealer_type_name=OEM/Component+Parts&content_id=9&pagestring=OEM/Component+Parts
Also on the Cardas site if your click on the pictures of the part you are interested in it will give you a full drawing with dimensions either in PDF or JPEG form.integrated w/DAC module Gryphon Diablo 300
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Also on the Cardas site if your click on the pictures of the part you are interested in it will give you a full drawing with dimensions either in PDF or JPEG form.
Yeah, I noticed that which is why I checked the inch measurements for the gauge wires. Boy do I have a lot more choices than I thought :biggrin:. Time to sit down and start making some decisions!"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Get the Vampires.
Absolutely love mine and they work very well and can accommodate what you want for gauge. Listen to Face on this one.
I'm using both the nanners and spades from Vampire. Solid. -
Just to make it more confusing I will also agree with Face and Drenis about the Vampire spades as being a great option also:razz:integrated w/DAC module Gryphon Diablo 300
server Wolf Alpha 3SX
phono pre Dynamic Sounds Associates Phono II
turntable/tonearms Origin Live Sovereign Mk3 dual arm, Origin Live Enterprise Mk4, Origin Live Illustrious Mk3c
cartridges Miyajima Madake, Ortofon Windfeld Ti, Ortofon
speakers Rockport Mira II
cables Synergistic Research Cables, Gryphon VPI XLR, Sablon 2020 USB
rack Adona Eris 6dw
ultrasonic cleaner Degritter
