Larry's rings

dhart86
dhart86 Posts: 1,594
edited September 2012 in Vintage Speakers
I am in the process of upgrading my SDA 1c's. Rdo 194's - installed! modded crossovers-will be installed soon. However, I am new to this upgrading stuff and want to do this right. While I have the drivers out, I am also considering applying Dynamat (which I have no clue on what I need to be doing) and I thought about installing Larry's ring's

So this will probably sound like the newbie question that it is, but what are the main benefits to installing Larry's rings to these vintage speakers. Also, is there a thread or instructions to help with installing.

I didn't want to bother Larry right now because I'm sure he's real busy processing orders and such, but I know there's alot of experience and expertise in this forum.

Any and all help (insight) is appreciated. Help the new guy do it right! Thanx
Main Rig:
Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


Second Rig:
Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


Post edited by dhart86 on
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Comments

  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited July 2012
    Darkknight did a detailed writeup & install instructions. Its here somewhere.
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  • yeahbuddy
    yeahbuddy Posts: 115
    edited July 2012
    The main benefit of the rings is the ability to do all the tweaks you're talking about without the concern of stipping away the threads on the speaker baffle when you're removing and re-installing the drivers and passive radiators. Since Larry's rings are metal you don't have to worry about stripping the threads, ensuring that you'll be able to reattach the drivers firmly and get good gasket seating to seal the cabinet.

    I know there's a few good threads for instructions on installing these guys, I didn't have much trouble when installing them on my SDA1A's.
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  • dhart86
    dhart86 Posts: 1,594
    edited July 2012
    Thanks fellas
    Main Rig:
    Antipodes DX > Roon > PS Audio Directstream Jr.>deHavilland Ultraverve 3 >Belles Reference 150a >Harbeth C7 ES3


    Second Rig:
    Roon> PS Audio Directstream Jr Bridge II > EE Minimax pre (Tutay mods) >Belles 150A Ref >Monitor 5 (Westmassguy-modded)


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  • PolkMaster1
    PolkMaster1 Posts: 847
    edited July 2012
    Purchase the Dynamat Extreme Wedge Pack. You can pick them up for $20 or so on ebay and apply them to the baskets of your PR and midrange. Some people even put them on the tweeters, but I do not find it necessary.

    Also, you may want to replace the gaskets for either mortite or Armacell for a more air-tight seal. Right now, I use Mortite as my sealant. You can pick this up for less than $10 at Home Depot. I found that the Dynamat Extreme combined with mortite combined has produced wonders for the sound. Be prepared to be blown away. If you decide to go with the Mortite, you should perform this after installing Larrys Rings, the Crossover Upgrade and Dynamating the baskets since mortite is a non-permanent sealant which weds the speaker to the cabinet.

    If you decide to go over with the crossover mods, I recommend Sonic Caps and Mills Resistors. They cost more than the Solens and other economical caps out there, but they are WORTH IT!!!

    I have not tried Armacell, but those who have tried it found it to be pleasing.
    Statistics show that 98% of us will die at some point in our lifetime.

    The other 2% will work for WalMart.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited July 2012
    The main benefit of the rings is that they couple the drivers solidly to the bezel, not the concern of stripping out the holes in the bezel. With the rings installed you absolutely do not need to use Mortite. In fact, the rings allow the baskets to couple to the bezel so tightly that I'd bet no gasket is actually needed, although I wouldn't advise that. As long as the original gaskets are not damaged you don't need to change them.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • HollowState
    HollowState Posts: 12
    edited September 2012
    In the process of upgrading my original set of SDA SRS speakers. Can't wait to get my hands on a set of Larry's rings!
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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    Are there any pics of Larry's rings out there. I've read lots about them, but I've not seen any pics. Just curious to see what they look like. A before and after would be even better.

    Thanks fellow CP members...

    -Saftgeek
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited September 2012
    I'll assume you're not just running up your post count........ pics here, http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?103241-Steel-Retaining-Rings-For-SDA-Drivers-And-Passive-Radiators
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    Good Lord... give the post count thing a rest. Thanks for posting the link. I should just read every one of DarqueKnight's posts. His posts are really second to none. It's so cool to have somebody take the time to give step-by-step directions. My next question is whether or not this is important if your screw holes are not worn out and you don't plan to take the drivers in/out very often? I'm positive I'm not an accomplished SDA listener yet and not sure if I'd notice the subtle differences he indicates in his thread. I need to spend some hours listening and figuring it all out. I'll get there as soon as the grass stops growing. Till then I get home from my day job, change clothes, and jump on a lawn mower till dark. The stuff we do so our kids can wear shoes, right...

    Thanks again F1. If you post your phone number I'll call you and you can post my comments so we can keep my post count down... Now I'm yanking your chain. I hope you old timers can take a little of what you dish out.

    -Saftgeek
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited September 2012
    It's got less, much less, to do with the screws holes being worn out than it does with coupling the drivers to the bezel. Did Ray say subtle differences? I'll have to disagree, the improvement in mid-range clarity and bass response is substantial.

    No worries, I soak it up like a sponge.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    Mr. F1 - just so I understand. The template is used to drill holes completely through the enclosure, after which the rings are inserted inside the enclosure. Are they glued in place or does the screws in the speakers hold them in? I think I understand??? Does the drilling template come with them or do you order those seperately? Would you recommend installing them all at the same time, speakers first, or the PR?
    I've really got to slow down on buying stuff for these speakers. (not having 100 posts has really helped! :lol:) I have a Boy Scout High Adventure trip to pay for. If I keep going my son will have to start walking dogs and earn his own money. I vaguely remember somebody telling me "welcome to the rabbit hole" when I found my SDA's. I'm thinking that comment was about the money they seem to soak up.

    -Saftgeek
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited September 2012
    The template is used to drill holes completely through the enclosure, after which the rings are inserted inside the enclosure.

    Correct, but if you're halfway capable with a drill you don't need to use the templates.
    Are they glued in place or does the screws in the speakers hold them in?

    The rings will stay in place after you more or less press fit them into the holes, no glue needed.
    Does the drilling template come with them or do you order those seperately?

    Comes with, but as I said above.....
    Would you recommend installing them all at the same time

    Absolutely. Get the tweeter brackets as well, which are sold seperately.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited September 2012
    F1nut wrote: »
    Did Ray say subtle differences?

    No, Ray did not:
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    Listening Evaluation

    The ring installations resulted in greater clarity, presence, apparent sound level, and bass macro details, bass micro details and bass impact.

    1. After the right speaker was completed, the left speaker sounded veiled by comparison...as if a thin sheet was over it. This was evident when mono material was playing and even more evident when stereo material was playing.

    2. At the seating position, the right side of the sound stage sounded louder, heavier and clearer. Standing two feet in front of each speaker, there was more tactile sensation coming from the bass notes of the right speaker.

    3. The sound stage dimensions did not change. However, images at the far right became more clear, detailed and weighty.

    After the initial listening evaluation, I was eager to achieve Such Good Sound from the left, but I curbed my enthusiasm and worked slowly and carefully. After the left speaker was completed, I heard:

    4. New bass details in familiar recordings, particularly tight, articulate micro growls.

    5. More overall clarity.

    6. More weight, detail and presence in vocals.

    7. More sustain and natural decay in piano notes.

    8. Enhanced three-dimensionality and more image weight at the sides and rear of the sound stage.

    It is always amazing when I hear how much musical information was being lost due to vibration at the driver/cabinet interface...and this was in speakers that had extensive cabinet and driver vibration abatement modifications. Indeed, the cabinets themselves were re-designed by the manufacturer to minimize vibration and detail robbing resonance.

    subtle: very fine; thin; delicate; faint; difficult to discern...
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    edited September 2012
    DarqueKnight wrote: »
    No, Ray did not:

    lol.....
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Saftgeek
    Saftgeek Posts: 114
    edited September 2012
    Okay Mr F1, now I need to know why I need tweeter brackets. You sold me on the rings. I actually understand how the make the driver almost part of the cabinet, but what does the tweeter bracket do? Keep them from viberating?
    If the foam gaskets are intact do you necessarily need to use Armacil (sp???) or will Larry's rings and the gasket work?

    Sorry Mr DK for using the wrong words... I am a nub and have yet to fully awaken the SDA inside of me. I am having a lot of fun moding and learning about the why-fors.

    -Saftgeek
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  • N_A_N_
    N_A_N_ Posts: 1
    How do you get in contact with Larry for the rings?
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  • sfosselman
    sfosselman Posts: 184
    I would also like to purchase Larry's rings and tweeter brackets for my 1C's
    Polk SDA 1C Upgraded, Eastern Electric Minimax Supreme DAC, Parasound HCA 1200ii, Belles 21a Preamp, Rotel RSX-1056, Matricom G Box Q, Blue Jean & Signal Cable interconnects, Sonographe SG-3 TT, Panamax M4300-PM
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,552
    Larry doesn't have any available right now. You can be sure when he does, he will let the collective know.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,416
    F1nut wrote: »
    The main benefit of the rings is that they couple the drivers solidly to the bezel, not the concern of stripping out the holes in the bezel. With the rings installed you absolutely do not need to use Mortite. In fact, the rings allow the baskets to couple to the bezel so tightly that I'd bet no gasket is actually needed, although I wouldn't advise that. As long as the original gaskets are not damaged you don't need to change them.
    THIS.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Nightfall
    Nightfall Posts: 10,086
    Rogue. I wouldn't constantly pester him about it though. He knows there is demand, he'll do another round if he has the time and feels like it.
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    Larry is a very busy guy at work and making this rings take a lot of personal time and money to make, so he'll make some when he has the spare time and can afford to tie up the cash.

    Don't quote me on this but I think it's been sometime since he's made a batch and may decide not to to do another run. I know if and when this last batch of Custom SDA Crossover Circuit Boards sells out that will be it.
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • leftwinger57
    leftwinger57 Posts: 2,917
    this is what is looks like drilling out the templates. Get cheap 2" clamps and you can't go wrong. As said before if cleanly and drilled straight on no glue is needed and only the screws being tightened against the gasket will seal it air tight.ija9e897wj8j.jpg
    2chl- Adcom GFA- 555-Onkyo P-3150v pre/amp- JVC-QL-A200 tt- Denon 1940 ci cdp- Adcom GFS-6 -Modded '87 SDA 2Bs - Dynamat Ext.- BH-5- X-Overs VR-3, RDO-194 tweeters, Larry's Rings, Speakon/Neutrik I/C- Cherry stain tops Advent Maestros,Ohm model E

    H/T- Toshiba au40" flat- Yamaha RX- V665 avr- YSD-11 Dock- I-Pod- Klipsch #400HD Speaker set-

    Bdrm- Nikko 6065 receiver- JBL -G-200s--Pioneer 305 headphones--Sony CE375-5 disc
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,240
    I will have a few rings soon, just be patient a little longer..

    I am not promising I will be able to take care of everyone but I will do my best..
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,240
    http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/170329/driver-speaker-rings-for-your-vintage-polk-sdas-monitors#latest
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