nspindel's SDA CRS+ upgrade thread
nspindel
Posts: 5,343
Finally decided to have at the CRS+'s that I bought from Sal last year. He had purchased them and started the upgrade, but he decided to go in a different direction, so I basically purchased an SDA-CRS+ upgrade kit from Sal. He had already acquired Tony's boards and Larry's rings, all the Sonicaps and Mills, and had assembled one of the boards and started on the second when I took over. I added the Northcreeks and Cardas posts, as well as the plastic for mounting the crossovers. I have a couple of days off of work, so I decided to get the project moving, so I finished off the boards, drilled out the plastic, did the binding post cups, and got the new inductors set up for mounting. I also stripped everything from the cabinets and installed the rings, and have started the highly laborious and knuckle-scraping work of stripping the veneer from the cabinets. The veneer stripping is where this project is going to come to a big slow-down. This part is going to take quite a while. Here's where I am so far with the electronics:
More detailed pics to follow, just thought I'd get a thread going. These are the third pair of SDA's that I've modded, and the intention here is to build my "speakers for life". These will ultimately end up replacing my 1C's. I love the 1C's and will miss them dearly, but when my wife and I downsize the homefront in a few years, they'll just be too big, CRS+'s will be just what the doctor ordered.
I'm planning to keep at the vinyl stripping. Ugh, ugh, ugh. That part is just not fun at all. I'll also be doing the dynamat on the driver baskets and the passive (I have all "new" drivers that I purchased from Polk because the original drivers went into my 1C's when I smoked them!). I've also got the RD-0198's that Sal included, and the new XO's include the TL mod.
I'll probably be dry-fitting all of this stuff fairly soon, long before I finish scraping the veneer, just to make sure it all sounds kosher. For the testing I'll probably just use all the stock seals, I will eventually use armacell everywhere but not planning on doing that till the final assembly after I do all the wood veneer work.
I've also modded the SDA connector to use a binding post - I will be using this with my Dreadnaught and Krell amplifier.
And so the process moves forward....
More detailed pics to follow, just thought I'd get a thread going. These are the third pair of SDA's that I've modded, and the intention here is to build my "speakers for life". These will ultimately end up replacing my 1C's. I love the 1C's and will miss them dearly, but when my wife and I downsize the homefront in a few years, they'll just be too big, CRS+'s will be just what the doctor ordered.
I'm planning to keep at the vinyl stripping. Ugh, ugh, ugh. That part is just not fun at all. I'll also be doing the dynamat on the driver baskets and the passive (I have all "new" drivers that I purchased from Polk because the original drivers went into my 1C's when I smoked them!). I've also got the RD-0198's that Sal included, and the new XO's include the TL mod.
I'll probably be dry-fitting all of this stuff fairly soon, long before I finish scraping the veneer, just to make sure it all sounds kosher. For the testing I'll probably just use all the stock seals, I will eventually use armacell everywhere but not planning on doing that till the final assembly after I do all the wood veneer work.
I've also modded the SDA connector to use a binding post - I will be using this with my Dreadnaught and Krell amplifier.
And so the process moves forward....
Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
Post edited by nspindel on
Comments
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Actually, my bad, those aren't Northcreeks, they're Solen inductors.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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I couldn't resist, I went ahead and did a test run. Put everything together and hooked them up to the Krell and Dreadnaught, and everything sounds pretty good straight away. I've done enough mods to know not to pay attention to any critical listening right now, the drivers, tweeters, crossovers, and inductors are all brand new. Plus the placement isn't right yet, and I haven't done the dynamat or armacell or sonic barrier yet. But they're making music, I'll let the stuff burn in for a while, since I don't have much time to devote to the veneer stripping right now. Overall though, everything is off to a good start.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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I will be following your upgrades from start to finish. I have a pair of CRS+ that I intend to do the upgrades on sometime. They are my first pair of SDAs so I'm still enjoying the with the only upgrade being 194 tweeters.
I know this is a premature question but how do they sound now compared to the way they did before any modifications?- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
- Crossover upgrades by westmassguy
- Marantz 1504 AVR (front speaker pre-outs to Adcom 555)
- Adcom GFA-555 amp · Upgrades & speaker protection added by OldmanSRS
- Pioneer DV-610AV DVD/CD player
- SDA CRS+ · Hidden away in the closet
- SDA 2BTL · Sonicaps · Mills resistors · RDO-198s · New gaskets · H-nuts · Erse inductors · BH5 · Dynamat
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Love the CRS+, cool thread...Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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I will be following your upgrades from start to finish. I have a pair of CRS+ that I intend to do the upgrades on sometime. They are my first pair of SDAs so I'm still enjoying the with the only upgrade being 194 tweeters.
I know this is a premature question but how do they sound now compared to the way they did before any modifications?
I never heard them before any mods, I bought them from Sal when they were already half taken apart. However, I did many of the same mods to the 2B's I used to own, and the improvements were substantial. The 2B and the CRS+ are very similar, so the results should be as well.
My advice to you is that if you're not ready yet to jump head first into the mods yet, at least try some dynamat. It's pretty inexpensive, doesn't require disassembling the crossovers, and it really helps a lot.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
FYI, I played with speaker placement a bit and put on some kicking music, and these speakers are rockin. I forgot just how great the CRS+'s sound. They're not the 1C's, but they're not far behind. These little speakers pack quite a punch. Pound for pound, they can't be beat.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Good group of photos showing the recent progress! Take note, towards the end of the group of photos, there are pics of the passive radiator before/after I cleaned it with Windex. What a difference!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Nice work! Love Gimpod's boards - they make for a nice clean layout."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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One speaker stripped down, one to go. For those of you following this thread thinking of acquiring a pair of CRS+'s and doing this project, one word of advice. Definitely try to find a pair of the vinyl laminate version, rather than wood veneer. Removing the vinyl is much easier than sanding off the veneer!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Latest status - I am done with the sanding! Old oak veneer is gone. There are some dings here and there just from the speakers being old, not to mention the gouges I caused when I started off thinking I was supposed to be using a heat gun and putty knife. So next step will be to fill those in (Jesse suggested Bondo) and sand that. I'll get around to that relatively soon, but I've got a full calendar after that and won't be getting to the veneer part until September.
Meanwhile, somewhere along the way I missed out on this thread, particularly the addendum section of post #2:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?132437-Upgrade-High-Frequency-Inductors-For-The-SDA-SRS-1.2TL
So after years of debating those on-board inductors, we finally have superior sounding upgrades for them! Kudos to DarqueKnight, yet again, for his great work. It appears it will take some time for these inductors to arrive (special order parts...), which should work well with the timeline I have for the veneer work.
So my CRS+'s will join the elite club of having zero original electronics left in the crossovers. The only original parts of the speakers that will remain will be the pressboard frames, the interior wiring harnesses, the binding post cup (although modified), the subwoofers, the white damping material that goes inside the cabinets, and the grill frames.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Also, I was reading somewhere that these toroidal inductors we are using don't appreciate metal being inside the core. So with the time I have before doing the veneer work, I'll also be researching plastic bolts to replace the original metal bolt that mounted the original 16mH inductor. If anyone's already done that homework, I'd love a link...Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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6 Jantzen inductors ordered from Bev at PartsExpress. Could take as long as six weeks.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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4 Dueland resistors ordered from PCX. Another special order that could take six weeks.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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I'll be doing the same as you when it comes time to finalize mine. Going all out takes time.
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Keep telling myself that patience is a virtue. Really not that hard to sweat the wait out, when I've got 1C's:cool:
But you're right. I could close these up right now (well, they still need a veneer job) with Mills and the original inductors, but I'm going all out, so if it takes time, so be it. But I am really looking forward to all the new parts coming, so I can start burning everything in together, including the new 1000VA Dreadnought.
Speaking of which, we gotta talk about these transformers, because Avel Lindberg says 8-12 weeks delivery time on the run of them. So if you can't commit for 2 months, we could be looking at about 5 months for these transformers.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance. -
Is it me or did all the photos in this thread disappear?Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Yep, gone."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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I see pics in post #8, but there are other threads were the pics simply don't show.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Hmmm that don't sound good....Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Also, I was reading somewhere that these toroidal inductors we are using don't appreciate metal being inside the core. So with the time I have before doing the veneer work, I'll also be researching plastic bolts to replace the original metal bolt that mounted the original 16mH inductor. If anyone's already done that homework, I'd love a link...
I briefly considered using nylon nuts and bolts, but I had concerns about long-term durability while securing those big heavy Solen inductors.
I went with aluminum nuts and bolts. Aluminum has the required stength to withstand heavy tightening of the nuts, and being a non-ferrous metal, will not cause a significant interaction with the inductor's magnetic field.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Brass hardware would also work well. Stainless hardware is a good choice IF it has high nickel content. Take a strong magnet with you and test potential stainless hardware choices for zero magnetic attraction.'65 427 Shelby Cobra
'72 Triumph TR-6
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'88 Polk SDA SRS 1.2, with upgraded XO caps and Erse SDA inductors
'86 Polk SDA CRS+
'84 Polk Monitor 10A (Peerless tweeters)
'05 HSU VTF-3 Sub (Original OEM)
'20 HSU VTF-3 Sub (three more, 100% cloned)
'93 Carver TFM-35
'88 Carver M-1.0t
'88 Adcom GFT-555
'88 Adcom GFP-555
'88 Adcom GFA-555 (upgraded/restored)
'88 Adcom GFA-555 (a second one upgraded/restored)
'05 Onkyo DV-555 media
'89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix
'89 Fosgate 360 Digital Space Matrix, internal surround amp bridged to drive only a center channel
'91 Kenwood Basic M1D Amp
'89 Pioneer Laser Disc media
'89 Sony SuperBeta HiFi media
One PGA2310 based custom built remote volume control
Four Polk T-15's
Four Polk TSi-200's
Four Polk TSi-100's
Two Polk CS-10's -
I mounted my large Solen inductors on the floor of my 2.3TL cabinets. This may not work for you, though.
Here's how I did it: I epoxied four 1/2" plywood footers to the floor also using #10 brass wood screws for added strength and to act as clamps till the epoxy dried. I cut a piece of 1/4" plywood into a square a little larger than the inductors, traced the inner and outer dimensions of the inductor onto it, and drilled holes for 4 heavy duty Nylon zip ties evenly spaced around circumference, 8 holes total (4 in the donut hole 90 degrees apart and 4 directly across from them at the line marking the outside edge of the inductor).
I then ran the zip ties through the holes and, using the same brass screws, screwed the plywood square to the footers. Then I mounted the Inductor on the plywood and secured it with the Zip ties.
The ties are rated for 175 lbs. each so those inductors are gonna stay put, they have no magnetic interaction and they provide clamping force that's more evenly distributed than a bolt through the middle of the inductor."Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer -
Thanks for the advice on fasteners. The vinyl fasteners I got seem to be pretty sturdy, but if there's a problem then I'll investigate further. Getting excited - got a shipping notice from Parts Express that my Jantzens are on the way. Now I just need the Duelands to arrive...Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Big shame that this thread was one of the ones where all the images dropped!Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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Do you still have them on your HD? Re-upload them using www.imgur.com or something similar."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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I'm probably going to start a new thread when I do the woodwork and final assembly anyway.Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
