RTIA7 Woofer Popping

Thorton

Hello forum, I just recently upgraded my system listed below. Every upgrade I've made has been a significant improvement in sound. Here's my problem. I notice songs with heavy bass, when I start pushing the speakers (not ear piercing), the A7 woofers start to almost sound like intermittent popping at deep parts of the song. I've tried different settings and locations but have not resolved the issue. I have the fronts set to small and the crossover set to 80. The popping is definitely coming from the woofers in the A7. Can anyone assist?

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AVR: Denon AVR-3805, AMP: Parasound Model 2250, Front: Polk RTIA7, Center: Polk CSIA6, Surrounds: Polk FXIA6, Sub: Polk DSW PRO660WI

Silverfang2340

How recently did you get the speakers? I would contact Polk right away and see if you can get a replacement or at least a suggestion for a fix.

Hope you can solve this problem.

hertz9753

Try setting then up as large with the crossover at 60 or 40.

hertz9753

Batpigworld.

http://batpigworld.com/setup.html

F1nut

Thorton wrote:

Here's my problem. I notice songs with heavy bass, when I start pushing the speakers (not ear piercing), the A7 woofers start to almost sound like intermittent popping at deep parts of the song.

At what volume setting on your AVR does this happen? What type of music are you playing?

hertz9753 wrote: »

Try setting then up as large with the crossover at 60 or 40.

How is that suppose to resolve his problem? If anything, it will make it worse.

Thorton

I purchased the speakers about 5 months back. I believe it's either my set-up or just pushing the amp too much. I thought the amp and/or speakers could be pushed more than I'm doing. I plan to contact Polk for suggestions.

Thorton

hertz9753 wrote: »

Batpigworld.

http://batpigworld.com/setup.html

Thanks. I did not know that the bass management (with crossover set) is canceled in Pure Direct and Direct mode.

Thorton

F1nut wrote: »

At what volume setting on your AVR does this happen? What type of music are you playing?

At 50% on the Denon the volume is real low. At 75% I hear the popping in a few songs with very deep bass. I usually listen to classic and hard rock. Metallica - Stone Cold Crazy makes it pop at 75%. After reading numerous threads, I believe maybe I'm pushing the amp too hard and clipping. I thought with this amp and speakers that I could be definitely be pushing it harder than I am. For now I've backed down the volume to not blow the speakers.

hertz9753

Did run the calibration on the 3805? What is each speaker set at?

Thorton

I've always run the auto calibration. I'm not experienced enough to set everything manually. The calibration sets the A7's to large. I keep them set at small. I really don't hear a difference when set to large or small in "Pure Direct" or Direct mode.

Thorton

The Parasound 2250 has a high pass filter. When I set it to 40hz, this eliminates the popping with a slight loss in bass response. I wonder though with this setting if I'm just bypassing the problem I have.

hertz9753

Thorton wrote: »

The Parasound 2250 has a high pass filter. When I set it to 40hz, this eliminates the popping with a slight loss in bass response. I wonder though with this setting if I'm just bypassing the problem I have.

Since most of your problems started when you added the amp, what do your RTi A7's sound like with just the 3805 and your sub?

gp4jesus

Thorton wrote: »

... the A7 woofers start to almost sound like intermittent popping at deep parts of the song... ...I have the fronts set to small and the crossover set to 80. The popping is definitely coming from the A7 woofers

I had a similar problem w/MW on bass-heavy music. Looking inside & studing the XO solved the mystery; bi-amping fixed it for me

A. Do you hear it from both channels?

B. From the mid woofer? Contrary to website info, the MW does NOT have HP filtering, period! Nor any sort of a divider between it and the subs, unlike the A9s. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

C. or the bottom 2 drivers Polks calls (A7/A9) subs? Set to small per other replies & let your sub take over below 60hz. Otherwise????


Tony

Thorton

hertz9753 wrote: »

Since most of your problems started when you added the amp, what do your RTi A7's sound like with just the 3805 and your sub?

The A7's sounded good with the 3805, just a little under powered. When I added the amp everything opened up. Deeper bass, cleaner highs and significantly more power. Overall, I like the sound of the combination. I just thought the combo could be powered more than it can unless I'm missing something in the set-up. I'm still playing around with the settings for optimal performance.

Thorton

gp4jesus wrote: »

I had a similar problem w/MW on bass-heavy music. Looking inside & studing the XO solved the mystery; bi-amping fixed it for me

A. Do you hear it from both channels?

B. From the mid woofer? Contrary to website info, the MW does NOT have HP filtering, period! Nor any sort of a divider between it and the subs, unlike the A9s. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

C. or the bottom 2 drivers Polks calls (A7/A9) subs? Set to small per other replies & let your sub take over below 60hz. Otherwise????


Tony

The popping is coming from both channels. I haven't determined if it's the mid woofer or the subs. I'm adjusting my settings and lowering the volume to prevent the popping from happening. If biamping fixed your problem was I just pushing my amp too far and probably clipping?

gp4jesus

Thorton wrote: »

The popping is coming from both channels. I haven't determined if it's the mid woofer or the subs. I'm adjusting my settings and lowering the volume to prevent the popping from happening.

Try this: make a note of the volume setting precisely when you hear popping.
1. Shut down your amp/AVR and disconnect wire from speaker.
2. Remove the speaker jumper.
3. Reconnect to just the top BPs.
4. Power up amp/AVR.
5. return volume to previous setting and resume listening.
6. Turn up until pops or sounds lousy.
Repeat 1-6 connecting to the bottom BPs.

My $ is on your MWs popping as that was my experience. I refer you to "B" in my previous post. You have several factors at work here:
1. MW running full range -low/sub bass driving those mids from your AVR/amp: cutting them off @ 60/80 hz could help
2. No separation between subs & MW- that little driver in that big closure
3. 2 7" drivers sharing the same space as a single 6" - the 2 7" pushing against that 6"
4. AVR/amp w/low damping factor* (DF) - insufficient control of driver motion
* you can't change this spec
5. I'll go out on a limb here as this should help w/#4. Bigger wire, however slight, will improve speaker damping. If you're using what I consider a bit small, 14 gauge or small: 16 or smaller, I recommend double run, (14+14=11). Or try a short run to one speaker of some cheap 10 ga. Then turn it up, listen to what happens.

At the time I encountered this problem, I used somewhat short (under 10') of 12 ga, full range, 2 ch mode, bass heavy program, driving them w/400 DF, warm sounding amp. With them bi-amped about 170hz 24dB/octave, they don't see any low bass. Popping? None no matter the program or how loud!

Shaloam Tony

glhorn

gp4jesus wrote: »

I had a similar problem w/MW on bass-heavy music. Looking inside & studing the XO solved the mystery; bi-amping fixed it for me

A. Do you hear it from both channels?

B. From the mid woofer? Contrary to website info, the MW does NOT have HP filtering, period! Nor any sort of a divider between it and the subs, unlike the A9s. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

C. or the bottom 2 drivers Polks calls (A7/A9) subs? Set to small per other replies & let your sub take over below 60hz. Otherwise????


Tony

I recently purchased RTi A9's for my front channels. While testing them in full range, I noticed a similar problem. The mids are showing fairly extreme movement (greater than the woofers) at high volume, accompanied by occasional raspiness (due to mid cone bottoming, I suspect) The monitor 70's that were replaced could handle this power level without bottoming (same volume setting), even though they are rated 275 watt as opposed to 500 watt rating of the 9's.

I called Polk today about this, but without a suggested solution, other than continuing to use the subs to keep the fronts from large excursions. Of course this will work, but there are times when I want to drive only the fronts for music, due to the extra clarity possible with some music. Also, these being full range speakers, I expected to be able to use them this way.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is there seems to not be enough bass isolation on the mids with the RTi A9's either. I'm not sure about why, though. Are the mids really acoustically isolated in the 9's, and are they isolated from lows by a HP filter as well? These may have the same problem as the 7's.

VR3

The RTiA9 has its own chamber for the midrange. I think your issue is power. I am assuming your system lists all of the gear? You really should look into an external amplifiers, 200 to 500 watts. I have owned the RTi12, the older version of the RTIA9, and with the right amplification those speakers will go louder than your ears can handle.

F1nut

The problem is you're trying to drive the RTi A9's with an AVR, which is incapable of controling the drivers properly. The only real solution, you need a real power amp.

hertz9753

F1nut wrote: »

The problem is you're trying to drive the RTi A9's with an AVR, which is incapable of controling the drivers properly. The only real solution, you need a real power amp.

And Monitor 70 for the surrounds.

VR3

hertz9753 wrote: »

And Monitor 70 for the surrounds.

This should have no effect on the performance of the RTiA9...

glhorn

F1nut wrote: »

The problem is you're trying to drive the RTi A9's with an AVR, which is incapable of controling the drivers properly. The only real solution, you need a real power amp.

Thers's a Carver M 400 that I've had since the early 80's (and has been in storage for several years) that I might be able to use for a front amp. The 3000 is a good AVR but I guess it can't compare to a good power amp for damping and current cap, although the Carver is old. I do wonder, though, if the mid chambers in the 9's might not be sealed properly?

VR3

I would try the Carver first. The chances of the mid chamber being not sealed properly is small - it is constructed with a locking connection meaning hte midrange chamber walls slide into grooves of the main cabinet if I am not mistaken.

F1nut

It's got nothing to with non-sealed chambers in either model.

glhorn

Thanks. I'll give the Carver a shot and see what happens.

gp4jesus

F1nut wrote: »

The problem is you're trying to drive the RTi A9's with an AVR, [most are] incapable of controling the drivers properly... ...you need a real power amp.

+1

vr3 wrote:

I would try the Carver first. The chances of the mid chamber being not sealed properly is small .

Nil. The 'A9 mids are isolated from their subs.; they have their own chamber.

F1nut wrote: »

It's got nothing to with non-sealed chambers in either model.

It most certainly DOES in the case of the 'A7s; it's mid chamber is NOT isolated from the subs.
I've driven my "7s w/a separate amp w/higher damping factor than most amps, connected with short, stout wire.

I plan to isolate the mids as part of my mod plan. Then drive the speakers full range w/the same music, amp, and wire to see if that fixes the popping.

Good luck, Tony

Thorton

Thanks everybody for your suggestions. With the A7's, I found the best solution for my problem was to change the high pass filter on the Parasound to 20hz and to limit the power I'm pushing from the amp. I guess it's not in my nature to trial and error too much causing the speakers to pop on command trying to resolve the issue. Instead with the above settings, the speakers and amp combo still sounded great.

Since then I've kind of been stricken with the upgradeitis flu. This forum has an uncanny knack of fueling this fire. Also, when you start upgrading and getting better results, you keeping thinking of the next improvement. So I upgraded to the A9's based on members comments, extra cash on hand, higher handling capability and great price reduction.

I sold the A7's first so I did not have the opportunity to do a A/B comparison but here's what I noticed listening to very familiar songs in my library. First, I believe the A9's are more musical and produce better SQ. To me I noticed three improvements: detail, midrange and bass. I believe the A7's were very good, however the A9's do things a little better. What amazed me was how much I could change the sound characteristic by adjusting the XO frequency and sub settings. It seemed like the best approach was to let the A9's handle all the load. I'm still working to find the optimal setting for my ears.

I've also recently upgraded my speaker cables with very good and surprising results that I will comment on the other post I had started. Thanks for everyone's help.