POWER CABLES: Would it be a waste of money
polkfarmboy
Posts: 5,703
Well I have decent MIT ic's and spkr cbls so my next step I would think would be to add some new power cables into the equation. The thing is that the apartment I have to live in has crap wiring after I brought in an electrician in to have a look, he said they dont even wire places up like this anymore lol.
My question is that if its going to be a waste of time buying new more expensive power cords because I need all the spare cash I can get to buy more skinny jeans
My question is that if its going to be a waste of time buying new more expensive power cords because I need all the spare cash I can get to buy more skinny jeans
Post edited by polkfarmboy on
Comments
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polkfarmboy wrote: »Well I have decent MIT ic's and spkr cbls so my next step I would think would be to add some new power cables into the equation. The thing is that the apartment I have to live in has crap wiring after I brought in an electrician in to have a look, he said they dont even wire places up like this anymore lol.
My question is that if its going to be a waste of time buying new more expensive power cords because I need all the spare cash I can get to buy more skinny jeans
Well maybe look into something like the APC H15, or one of the more expensive power regenerators (that take the power and totally clean it). Might be more, but you buy one and it fixes problems where you live now and in the future....
I forget what they are called, but DarqueKnight has a couple in his system and has done some writeups on it...
I just hope this thread stays on track, but am guessing shortly it wont be."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I have the APC and a few aftermarket cables, and they both made a difference in MY system to MY ears. It's always worth a shot and if you get one from Pepster you won't have a lot invested and could always resell it for close to what you paid.
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EndersShadow wrote: »Well maybe look into something like the APC H15, or one of the more expensive power regenerators (that take the power and totally clean it). Might be more, but you buy one and it fixes problems where you live now and in the future....
I forget what they are called, but DarqueKnight has a couple in his system and has done some writeups on it...
I just hope this thread stays on track, but am guessing shortly it wont be.
Dan's advice would be your best bet at this point.
I would skip the power cables for now.
B Run, your cable is a little different than most I make.
Being a VH style made from scratch (a single wire) I would like to think you could get more than you paid for it!
Testing
Testing
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Haha like i'd ever consider selling it.
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B Run, your cable is a little different than most I make.
Being a VH style made from scratch (a single wire) I would like to think you could get more than you paid for it!
So now we know who the favorite is :razz::cheesygrin:"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Look into a line conditioner.
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From my experience I had the best results with a Power Cord in conjuction with a power conditioner.
I have had excellent reuslts with the APC H15. -
I have to agree!!! A good power conditioner with a good power cord should wow you for a few!! The picture on the TV is worth it alone!!!!Polk Audio SDA 2.3tl Fully Hot Rodded. 😎
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MIT Shotgun 3 cables throughout / Except TT, and PC’s -
If you've got good quality electrical wires in your house/appartment, then it could be usefull but not by that much.
If it's noisy and you're getting hums here and there, it might be a good idea to buy better power cables or power supply when paired with a power conditionner. However, it still won't be as good as having quality electrical wires and/or problems solved by an electrician (which may cost more, I admit it). If you don't plan on living there forever, a power conditionner is the way to go.Speakers: Polk Audio LSiM 705, LSiM 703, LSiM 704c
Receiver: Denon X3500H -
pyrocyborg wrote: »If you don't plan on living there forever, a power conditionner is the way to go.
My assumption would be he doesnt plan on being there long term since its an apartment. Otherwise I agree with your statement."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
My house ( Texas Chainsaw Massacre Style) out in the country that I stay in now and again has really really old wiring so I will have to go with power conditioners and then add the upgraded power cords as they can go where ever I do. Last time I took my tube integrated out there I noticed there was noise coming through my rti8's thats not audible in my apartment
What are some decent cords I should be looking at as I have never done much research into this field of audio. I'm not looking for 2k cords, just something that is going to a better alternative over stock and give a minute enhancement -
I used Pangea AC-14SE and AC-9SE cables. In fact, these inexpensive cables showed me that power cables can make an audible difference. Later I went to the 1K and 2K Shunyata power cables, and have not looked back.
My house was built in 1958, and has the original wiring. I had the breaker box upgraded a few years ago to a 200 amp panel, but since the house is on a slab, and the attic is full of HVAC ducts, upgrading the inside wiring is out of the question. That was my justification to go to an all Shunyata power conditioner and power cable system.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
polkfarmboy wrote: »What are some decent cords I should be looking at as I have never done much research into this field of audio. I'm not looking for 2k cords, just something that is going to a better alternative over stock and give a minute enhancement
The Pangea suggestions are quite good, as well as Audioquest's power cables. Also dont discount Pepsters cables. I got one of those myself."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
The fact that you have crap wiring in the walls is even more of a reason to get really good power cords.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Anyone have experience with the MIT Z-cord II?
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All system benefit from power management. It's extremely important to the overall longevity and peak performance of any system.
Power cords alone are not the answer to power management. Clean power , regulation and conditioning are essential. Then once this is achieved , better quality power cords can be added.
Power cords don't yield high level of performance on their own but coupled with a power center can provide the best power to the system.
I suggest researching pure sign wave , power conditioning and top surge protection. Battery back up as well.
Brands I stand behind is APC and Panamax. Both have been in the business for years and years and do a wonderful job.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
polkfarmboy wrote: »My question is that if its going to be a waste of time buying new more expensive power cords because I need all the spare cash I can get to buy more skinny jeans
We're in the same boat, hahaCurrent setup: Harman Kardon HKTS 30BQ
Next setup: Polk RTI A7's
Polk CSi A6
HSU VTF-2 MK4 12" SUB
Undecided on surround -
I asked a electrical engineer that he said high end a/c cables are helpfull but only if you have PROBLEMS with your power source , for example interferance and fluxuating power so bad it effects the amps , stuff is well built today and I think you have nice stuff , so spend funds on skinny jeans
polkfarmboy wrote: »Well I have decent MIT ic's and spkr cbls so my next step I would think would be to add some new power cables into the equation. The thing is that the apartment I have to live in has crap wiring after I brought in an electrician in to have a look, he said they dont even wire places up like this anymore lol.
My question is that if its going to be a waste of time buying new more expensive power cords because I need all the spare cash I can get to buy more skinny jeans -
I can not say from listening, but I see vendors [Audio Adviser, et al] selling absurdly expensive power cords and outlets. My thought -- until you upgrade all the wiring from your main panel to that outlet, that is just a complete waste of money. How the heck is 5 feet of cord going to make a diff' if there are 50+ feet of standard 15 amp 14 gauge romex powering it?!?!? Put in one or two dedicated 20 or 30 amp circuits, possibly with up-gauged wire (10 gauge or better.) Probably should be on the same "side" or phase [I know electricians don't call it that.] Get commercial grade outlets (a couple bucks) not the 50 cent ones. Though I think the "hospital grade" and other stUpid expensive ones are overkill waste. Connect them nicely - none of that push in c*** -- I like the push in and screw down as a convenient option, but if it's just for your audio, might as well twist 'em up and screw them down.
My current [NPI] home of 11 years has up-gauged 12 gauge wiring with 15A breakers and receptacles. It's the only place I've lived in 23 years that my Adcom GFA-555 does NOT make the lights visibly dim when flipped on (ok - there is a little flicker, hehe)
I still wanna run a dedicated circuit for the audio gear. Do that before you spend crazy bucks on the last couple feet of wire. -
Thanks for your insightful post, WayneBob. Maybe next time you could speak from actual experience.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Dude, I said up front it was speculation. And I think I very clearly stated my rationale. If I come in making BS comments with neither experience nor logic, THEN PLEASE bash me all you like. I stand by my speculation. If you're happy with your investment -- great. That's what good audio is all about, and what we're all here for.Thanks for your insightful post, WayneBob. Maybe next time you could speak from actual experience.
With "high end" cords costing $100 to $500 to infinity, I strongly suspect you're better off working from the beginning of the chain forward, rather than throwing money at the tail end in hopes of some miracle. I put a high quality receptacle in my wall box. If there was not drywall in the way, I'd have two or more dedicated high-amp circuits behind my audio rack before I blew money on a trick power cord. Shoot, I might even do away with the receptacle and hard-wire the gear into the wall. Err... wouldn't be easy to yank the plugs when the lightning storms start crashing, tho'. -
Having better wiring certainly can help. However, even with better wiring, a quality power cord will still improve the sound, assuming you are using good gear. That is not speculation, but fact based on experience.
I have to admit, as an engineer who tend to be overly logical, I used to think the idea of a power cord making a difference in sound quality was crazy. However, to many people were saying that it did. Finally, I bought some Pangea cords, and sure enough there was a positive audible improvement. Eventually, I ended up spending $10k on a complete Shunyata system, Triton, wall duplex, and power cables, and it was money well spent.
If you think power cords are a waste of money than that is fine. However, telling people they are a complete waste of money when you have zero experience is irresponsible at best, and is just trolling at worst.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Maybe finding a J.O.B. would be a better idea than worrying about power cords(they don't make any difference anywaypolkfarmboy wrote: »Well I have decent MIT ic's and spkr cbls so my next step I would think would be to add some new power cables into the equation. The thing is that the apartment I have to live in has crap wiring after I brought in an electrician in to have a look, he said they dont even wire places up like this anymore lol.
My question is that if its going to be a waste of time buying new more expensive power cords because I need all the spare cash I can get to buy more skinny jeans
:cheesygrin:...) The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
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I am sorry -- not communicating well, I guess. Really don't wanna tick anyone off or be accused of being a "troll". I do NOT think they are a "complete waste of money." NOR DID I SAY THAT. Many tweaks can help; but there is the price to performance ratio to consider. And as I already opined, I think you're better off, and money ahead, upgrading your home's wiring before a power cord.If you think power cords are a waste of money than that is fine. However, telling people they are a complete waste of money when you have zero experience is irresponsible at best, and is just trolling at worst.
FWIW, I worked an electronics tech' apprenticeship in high school (1982), have a portion of an electrical engineering degree and have done lots of DIY home electrical work. I replaced / upgraded the linear power supply filter caps in my Adcom GFA-555 to 4X 18,000uF @ 100V a few years ago. And last Saturday replaced an aging power switch, and soldered in 100uF / 250V film bypass caps on the power supply. I think it helped! w00t!
Peace, Man. And enjoy the tunes. -
I do NOT think they are a "complete waste of money." NOR DID I SAY THAT.
Sorry, the Friday night beer is affecting my reading comprehension.I can not say from listening, but I see vendors [Audio Adviser, et al] selling absurdly expensive power cords and outlets. My thought -- until you upgrade all the wiring from your main panel to that outlet, that is just a complete waste of money.
One mistake many make is trying to use current electronic training to rationalize their position on power cords. See the Shunyata web-site for an excellent description of DTCD and how it measures the differences of the ability of various power cords to supply instantaneous current. This is a recently discovered electrical trait that has audible results.
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/DTCD-whitepaper.html
http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical.htmlLumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
And to veer somewhat off topic -- why isn't there more [any?] battery powered audio gear? You couldn't run a power amp for long. But a pre-amp / DAC / CDP / etc -- a lot of expensive high end units have fancy outboard chassis power supplies. There is still AC noise. You could have a fancy black lacquer battery box with a big gold plated knife switch on top [audio geek / snob appeal!] and flip it from "charge" to "power". Absolute pure DC! Disconnected from the mains. Hmm?
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And to veer somewhat off topic -- why isn't there more [any?] battery powered audio gear? You couldn't run a power amp for long. But a pre-amp / DAC / CDP / etc -- a lot of expensive high end units have fancy outboard chassis power supplies. There is still AC noise. You could have a fancy black lacquer battery box with a big gold plated knife switch on top [audio geek / snob appeal!] and flip it from "charge" to "power". Absolute pure DC! Disconnected from the mains. Hmm?
Which might happen as battery technology improves from the research being done for hybrid cars. Charge up the hi-fi batteries overnight for music the next day. I read a review in one of the magazines for a battery powered phono pre-amp. That probably requires little power. However, unless battery power provides an obvious, audible improvement, it most likely will not happen.Lumin X1 file player, Westminster Labs interconnect cable
Sony XA-5400ES SACD; Pass XP-22 pre; X600.5 amps
Magico S5 MKII Mcast Rose speakers; SPOD spikes
Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR on source, Denali 2000 (2) on amps
Shunyata Sigma XLR analog ICs, Sigma speaker cables
Shunyata Sigma HC (2), Sigma Analog, Sigma Digital, Z Anaconda (3) power cables
Mapleshade Samson V.3 four shelf solid maple rack, Micropoint brass footers
Three 20 amp circuits. -
Ack! I DID say the "complete waste" thing, sorry. But It WAS taken out of context. Got a few brewskies in me, too. Cords are not a complete waste, just not the first thing I'd blow money on. Root cause analysis, ya' know. Get the highest current capacity, clean, dedicated AC supply to your gear. THEN tinker with power cords is my goal. Again -- just my philosophy and intuition, not empirical. And lots of friends & family think my audio obsessions are kinda nuts and inaudible to them.Sorry, the Friday night beer is affecting my reading comprehension. -
There are a few companies out there doing battery powered components for that exact reason. Dodd, red wine, Haggerman.
Heck, I've been using a $60 kit phono pre that runs on 9v batteries and sounds pretty decent thats been available for years and years.
My opinion on power cords is that they work best on digital equipment. I noticed the largest differences with my digital active crossover, cd player, and TV. Amplifiers and pres not so much. I would suspect that high end components with huge transformers and beefy power supplies are far less effected than the other components i mentioned.design is where science and art break even.
