Monster cable

rick57

2 of the connectors on my original monster cables have broken off.
Can't seem to find them for sale anywhere.
Using on pair of 7a's (post has very small hole in threaded area).
These cables are over 30 years old...but still seem to work fine.
Is there a "shelf" life for cables?
Is this connector set up the only option, or is there something better I should be using?
See pic of what I have attached.
Thanks.

cnh

You need cable terminators? They really don't have to be Monster, you know. Take a look here:

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

I'm pretty sure you can shove banana ends right into the back of Monitor A speaker posts. I do that for my 10As which are actually missing the plastic screw down Red and Black pieces?

cnh

rick57

Great thanks...but which terminators will work best with the (vintage) 7A posts?

cnh

Check the back of your speaker posts! They should accept a standard banana, I think. See above. I doubt the Binding posts on 7As differ much from 10As?

But make sure you look first. I am NOT talking about the hole on the side of the mount that you normally use for bare wire and screw it into place. But entry from directly "behind" the post! The post should by HOLLOW!

You can also find gold plated banana ends at your local Radio Shack but you'll pay MORE for them there!

cnh

cnh

rick57 wrote: »

2 of the connectors on my original monster cables have broken off.
Can't seem to find them for sale anywhere.
Using on pair of 7a's (post has very small hole in threaded area).
These cables are over 30 years old...but still seem to work fine.
Is there a "shelf" life for cables?
Is this connector set up the only option, or is there something better I should be using?
See pic of what I have attached.


Thanks.

Here are some plugs with ends "similar" to those monster ends!

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401

Again, Radio Shack also carries some ends like this!

http://www.radioshack.com/search/index.jsp?kwCatId=&kw=banana%20plug&origkw=banana+plugs&sr=1

cnh

gdb

Ring or spade terminals are my preference over bananas because they dont stick out (with a lot of leverage on them) and can drop straight down from the posts.

rooftop59

I have some extras of those exact plugs.

PM Sent.

Systems

Yeah, I think I would use straight wire before using pin connectors (those are not banana's).

These cables are over 30 years old

Yes, it is time to replace/upgrade.

Aside from your speakers, I would like to know what receiver/amp/pre you are using.
That would be a factor when determining "connection types".

Syndil

pepster wrote: »

Yes, it is time to replace/upgrade.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree. Copper does not deteriorate unless it is exposed to oxygen.

Cut off the ends if they show corrosion and then re-terminate your cable, but otherwise it should be as good as the day you bought it. Obviously since Monster uses clear insulators on their cables, you can see that the copper inside is still in good shape. Copper is copper.

F1nut

Is there a "shelf" life for cables?

For those there is. The clear jacket used on those is infamous for allowing the copper to oxidize, so yourself a favor, buy some new cable.

BlueFox

Syndil wrote: »

Copper is copper.

A personal opinion that is also false.

"Copper quality is never referred to with a series of 9's in the metals industry, it is referred to with CDA numbers. The CDA number verifies that the copper is measured and certified to a specific purity standard. There are many grades: CDA 104, CDA 103, 102 and 101. CDA 101 copper is the highest purity copper on the metals market. It comes with papers that prove its authenticity. This is the copper that Shunyata Research purchases and uses in every product from signal cables to power cords as well as in Guardian Pro and Hydra Model conditioners.

The majority of cable manufacturers buy their wire pre-made from major US or overseas suppliers. In many cases, it will be the least expensive wire available given that it is hidden from view. There are a few exceptions such as Siltech and Cardas, among others. Shunyata Research is one of the few companies that purchases its own CDA 101 copper in raw ingot form. The copper is then drawn into all the wire forms that are used throughout the Shunyata line. The power cords, power distributors and signal cables all benefit from this top quality material. More than that, using completely matched metallurgy lends a symmetry and coherence to the performance of any system. Given the sheer volume of wire that connects and powers all the components, a power and signal wiring system is an integral component unto itself. Purchasing CDA 101 copper and having it made from scratch into the many wire compliments is an expensive process but is a critical component of Shunyata's success -- attention to_every_detail."

http://www.shunyata.com/Content/technical-PowerDist.html

rooftop59

BlueFox wrote: »

A personal opinion that is also false.

Personal opinions cannot be true or false. Truth claims can be. :razz:

Good link and info.

cnh

F1nut wrote: »

For those there is. The clear jacket used on those is infamous for allowing the copper to oxidize, so yourself a favor, buy some new cable.

I have a 15 year old set of Monster cables like these, with the clear coat; you can see places where the wire has oxidized, not "all" of it, but some. So you should at least take a look at the entire cable just to make sure.

Is there some reason that we're going into a discourse on Shunyata, above? Suffice it to say that copper comes in "different" grades and even in its highest, most pure form it's not that expensive for a manufacturer of cables to buy/use it?

cnh

rick57

thanks rooftop59 , but I think I'm going with bananas.

rick57

Kenwood Kr-4070 receiver (1979)

rick57

Thanks for all the good info.
So, I'm running my original monster cables from my Kenwood KR-4070 receiver (1979) to pair of 7A's.
Should I replace cables (if, so with what)?...and should I use banana plugs (which I don't think will fit on rcvr. end)?

rick57

oh, yeah...what gauge?

rick57

back of kenwood kr-4070

CoolJazz

Syndil wrote: »

I'm going to go ahead and disagree. Copper does not deteriorate unless it is exposed to oxygen.
Cut off the ends if they show corrosion and then re-terminate your cable, but otherwise it should be as good as the day you bought it. Obviously since Monster uses clear insulators on their cables, you can see that the copper inside is still in good shape. Copper is copper.

I see copper strap all the time that been in place for over 25 years now. As a matter of fact I see it as I walk across it as it's laid across the floor. Very exposed to open air and it doesn't show the slightest sign of deterioration! Nope not shiny any more. After maybe a year or so it gets to be kind of brown colored and then in the next few decades I can't ever see any sign of anything else ever happening that I'd consider to be a sign of deteriorating.

On the other hand, I've seen new spools of the typical cheap zip cord style speaker cable, in the clear jacket, that's been around for maybe a year and already fully green colored under the jacket. Nothing to do with being exposed! That's because the problem is the CLEAR JACKET! It has chemicals leach out which is what causes the green fungus kind of growth on the cable. Being exposed to air is NOT the problem!

Had to do some replacement recently of copper strands directly buried (no jacketing at all) in the ground recently. It'd have lasted longer if not needing to be disturbed. Gosh it'd had only been buried since about the 1940's. It was now crumbling such that silver soldering to it turned out to not be possible.

The idea that air exposure leads to oxidation is simply not the case!

CJ

cnh

Are you saying that "copper" does NOT "oxidize" over time? Because there are a lot of manufacturers who would disagree with that statement! But that also depends (as bluefox mentions above) on the grade of copper we're talking about.

BTW,

"Copper turns green because of a process known as oxidation which is the removal of electrons from the substance. Specifically, copper turns green because of something known as copper carbonate. This is the substance that is found on top of copper–whether they be copper pipes, pennies, statues or anything else. So, the cause of copper turning green is copper carbonate."

cnh

CoolJazz

Just trying to illustrate the difference between copper which has a surface discoloration versus the hardware store clear plastic coated zip cord wire.

The difference is that you can readily wipe clean the surface of decades old copper while months old plastic coated wire turns to green slime inside. If you strip off the jacket you find that it's a gunky slime feeling green ****. Not cleanable. Thats the chemicals leaching out of that clear jacket. I'm not sure that all that style does it but certainly the vast majority does!

A couple months ago a party DJ needed a very heavy guage rope construction looking clear jacket cable reterminated at one end. If I had to guess, I'd say it was probably the heaviest guage sold somewhere like a Guitar Center. It was less than a year old. It just about wasn't possible to get a good bond to a new connector due to it's leeching. It is amazing, the comparison of that stuff versus talking apart 60-70 year old equipment that you loosen a terminal screw and the wire looks perfect on!

And btw, if you clamp down a screw terminal with appropriate tension, you can loosen it up years later and see clean fresh copper. The horrible air exposed part will simply have minor surface discoloration and I've never seen it breaking down otherwise. Not so from inside the cheesy wire....

CJ

treitz3

Hello, Mark. A physical connection like that will always be pure when released though. It's the same in as it is out. The surface is physically cleaned, if you will.

Syndil

BlueFox wrote: »

A personal opinion that is also false.

Here, have some Kool-Aide.

rooftop59 wrote: »

Personal opinions cannot be true or false. Truth claims can be.

Quite.

rick57

Thanks for all the good info.
So, I'm running my original monster cables from my Kenwood KR-4070 receiver (1979) to pair of 7A's.
Should I replace cables (if, so with what)?...and should I use banana plugs (which I don't think will fit on rcvr. end)?
oh, yeah...what gauge?
pls. see back of kenwood kr-4070 (above)...cannot use banana plugs.

F1nut

Should I replace cables (if, so with what)?...

YES! Take a look at Signal Cable or whatever else fits your budget.

should I use banana plugs

You know you can't on the receiver end, so why do you keep asking?



Word of advice, ignore whatever Syndil says, he's clueless.

rooftop59

I would suggest getting the cheapest non-terminated cable from bluejeanscable.com and then getting banana plugs for just the speaker end and terminating/installing them yourself. Leave the other end bare for the receiver.

Good luck.

cnh

That sounds reasonable. Bananas on the speaker side (I have to use those on my Monitor 10As) and bare wire to the Kenwood as those are old style terminals back there--Actually the receiver is a lot like a Kenwood KR-5400 I used to use for my computer speakers (Minimus 7s), except that the 5400 was heavier at 27 lbs vs. 20.7 for the 4070.

Actually the 5400 is not that far removed from your 4070 spec wise (35 watts x 2 vs. 40 watts x 2 for yours). Some of those old Kennies are sweet sounding receivers. I also have a Kenwood KA-7300 integrated and matching tuner (KT-7300) around here somewhere! (65 watter x 2, dual power supplies).

Should sound nice with 7As!

Good luck!

cnh

DarqueKnight

BlueFox wrote: »

"Copper quality is never referred to with a series of 9's in the metals industry, it is referred to with CDA numbers. The CDA number verifies that the copper is measured and certified to a specific purity standard. There are many grades: CDA 104, CDA 103, 102 and 101. CDA 101 copper is the highest purity copper on the metals market. It comes with papers that prove its authenticity. This is the copper that Shunyata Research purchases and uses in every product from signal cables to power cords as well as in Guardian Pro and Hydra Model conditioners."

There are two forms of copper above CDA 101:

1. PCOCC - Pure Copper by Ohno Continuous Casting process. A patented process (US patents 4515204 and 4605056) where the crystals formed in the normal copper wire drawing process are eliminated. This results in wires composed of a single copper crystal up to 700 feet long with none of the grain boundary distortions inherent in ordinarily drawn copper wire. High purity copper typically has 1500 grain boundaries per foot. The heating process used in making PCOCC also further reduces the oxygen content of the copper.

2. PCOCC-A - An annealed version of PCOCC where the wire surface is polished to a mirror finish. The annealing process reduces metal stress making the wire more flexible and slightly increases conductivity. Since most of an audio signal travels on the surface of a wire conductor, polishing the conductor surface to a smooth mirror finish results in lower distortion.

PCOCC and PCOCC-A are not separate grades of copper above CDA 101. PCOCC copper results from talking high purity CDA 101 copper and further refining it in a way that drastically reduces signal distortions due to grain boundary interaction, metal stress and wire surface irregularities.

Many cable manufacturers stress the purity of the copper used in their products, but copper purity only tells part of the story. High purity copper can have most of its signal transmission advantages compromised by:

1. A stress inducing wire drawing process.

2. The choice of an insulation material with high dielectric properties that increases distortion by storing and releasing energy.

3. The use of terminations that adversely affect signal integrity. Inappropriate terminations can reduce conductivity and can cause impedance mismatches that reflect part of the signal back into the cable. For example, welded connections are better than soldered connections. Soldered connections are better than screw/pressure plate connections.

For a complete understanding of the signal transmission properties of a particular cable. The following must be considered:

1. The conductor metal and its purity, size (wire gauge) and wire cross-sectional shape.
2. The wire drawing process used.
3. The wire finishing process used (if any).
4. The wire twist geometry (crosstalk reduction methods).
5. The dielectric properties of the insulation.
6. The type and quality of termination.

It is possible that a cable with average copper purity, yet with high manufacturing and construction standards, to outperform a cable with high purity copper that was made with lower (or even careless) manufacturing and construction standards.

gdb

All of this amounts to approximately doodley squat when applied to a modest receiver pushing some Monitor 7s. :rolleyes:

Syndil

gdb wrote: »

All of this amounts to approximately doodley squat when applied to a modest receiver pushing some Monitor 7s. :rolleyes:

Or any speaker, for that matter.

DarqueKnight

gdb wrote: »

All of this amounts to approximately doodley squat when applied to a modest receiver pushing some Monitor 7s. :rolleyes:

My mother has the 28 year old Kenwood receiver that I used in college, along with a pair of Fanfare Acoustics bookshelf speakers ($285/pair) and a Sony 302 Mk II CD player. After I switched from Original Monster Cable speaker wire and Monster Interlink 400 interconnects to DSR Silverline speaker cable and interconnects, she asked:

"Did you buy me a new stereo?"

"No. I just changed the wires."

"Changing the wires made that big of a difference? It sounds like a new stereo."

I was surprised she noticed since I only made the cable change for my benefit when I am visiting.