DA4ES vs. 3803

Maurice

I'm just about ready to spring for my new reciever. I was set on the DA4 but I've heard so many good things about the 3803 I'm now considering it as well. I know most everyone on the forum likes the denon, but I need specific details in what makes the 3803 better than the DA4, if there are any. Thanks for the input.

mantis

This is a question you need to answer.

Both are very fine products.I personally support Denon more so then Sony ES in the reciever lines.Sony is harder to use and setup.They still have things that need to be improved on.Many I could go into ,

Denon on the other hand has the receiver market in a nutshell.It's theres and thats the way it is.They do it better then everyone and prove it each and every year.They come and go but Denon is still THE ONE......and for many good reasons.

Dan

F1nut

Can you demo both? Can you demo others? I'd get out there and put my ears on.

dorokusai

I think either choice would be fine. The Sony is not hard to setup, so I have no idea where that comment comes from. They are basically the same, setup wise, from the regular line thru the ES line. Does the manual suck for explaining things? Yes indeed. The Denon probably has a more literal translation of how to do things. The Sony is vague, thats where the trouble comes in.

That being said, a manual problem should not be a deterrent to buy something. The STR-DA4ES is the most popular model, the European version is the STR-VA333ES/DB1080. The STR-DA7ES is basically a 4ES with a LCD remote. Its a strong amplifier, and has a tremendous amount of features. With the new line coming out, you may find some pretty sweet deals on the 4ES. The 5ES is also a top performer.

Try and listen to them both. You can't go wrong.

mantis

dorokusai,
my comment comes with weight.I have installed thousands of Sonys and Denons and the Denons are much easier specially for a rookie.I'm a Pro and I perfer to setup a Denon.

Sonys menus suck IMO.I don't perfer there setup,remotes,lack of hookup,but sound quality I feel they are very nice.If you can manage your way around there menu systems,you'll be happy with Sony ES,if you don't have alot of gear,you'll be happyh with Sony ES.Denon has more hookup ability.

I see you own a Sony,take no offence from my comments.I speak my mind and I hold back nothing when it comes to how I feel about a certain brand........

Dan

bigsexy1

Go with the Denon. The Sony also has a very good pre/pro section in it, but the Denon's is still better, along with having a much better amp section as well as mating with the Polks like peas and carrots.

dorokusai

I think the Denon is nice. There is less published about the inner workings of the Sony, so it is really subjective to talk parts. They have some bizarre need or wish to hide so much from the public. Denon is full service, without a dought.

Mantis - I have used a handful of Sony ES gear, not thousands, and know as much as you do about them. That's a ridiculous statement. I am not offended in the least by the general comment on the gear as such, moreso by your "weight" comment.

Is it user friendly? No, it is surely not super friendly. What is user friendly? A knob for every function? I have not seen a mating issue with Polk's and Sony ES unless it is an LSi.

Maurice

This seems to spark some interesting comments. Please keep it up as it is helping to clear my decision.

dave shepard

Originally posted by Maurice
Please keep it up as it is helping to clear my decision. [/B]

Look into the 6th Ave deal, I did and at $648.06 for a 3803 and what everybody says about it, it became a no brainer for me hope this helps.


Dave

mantis

dorokusai,
relax man.If you didn't know I am an Installer.I know Sony ES and personally I like em alot.They mate with a wide range of speakers with good quality amps.They drive most stuff very well.If you are knowing of Sony ES,then you'll know they are one of the harder receivers to setup and use.Try working 2nd zone on some of there receivers.No on screen display,no volume display,you have to point the remote VIA a repeater or directly and pry for results.There multiroom sucks.

Dude Sony ES is no compare for Denon...only in sound quality do they have a chance.Denon is the better choice here and in most cases.

But listen man...as anything all this is opnion and personal taste.But when it comes down to needs,you have to own what fits.Sony ES receivers are very limited on hookup.Can't argue that.I have seem them all over the past 4 years.

So review on what I don't like about Sony ES receiver..

1) poor hookup ability
2)Poor remote controls
3)Poor setup menus
4)Poor multiroom setup and use

You know while I'm kicking it I do however like one thing about them...you can turn them on and switch inputs with a touch of a button.If it is off and you want to watch DVD's,you can just push the DVD input command and the unit will turn on and go to the correct input which is DVD...now thats a cool feature.

So here'a some things I like about it....

1)Great sound quality
2)good built quality and good looks
3)direct input power up
4)If you own other Sony gear,it will work it from the remote....
5)price point is good
6)good to better amp section with the ability to drive most speakers

Dan

dorokusai

I know what you do Mantis. Do you know what I do?

Poor hookup ability? Explain that please.

Poor remote? Agree. It is not great. It is an across the board gripe with Sony ES users. The 4ES gives you back the learning remote, which is absent from the 1ES/2ES. The STR-DA7ES is the only one that addresses this issue with a full service remote. At that price level it better be a good damn remote. How much better could the Denon remote possibly be?

Poor setup? The manual has been addressed that it is poor. A common issue across all lines of Sony. It does offer OSD, which is less confusing than trying to use the jog shuttle on the front panel. I don't think its poor, but could be improved. How does Denon address multiple setup changes? A PS/2 keyboard?

Poor multi-room? Explain the Denon's better use of multi-room please.

dorokusai

Sony thanks you for your patronage

Unfortunately these are two different animals.

The "replacement" for the 4ES, the 3000ES does has Digital Drive Amplification, but the 4ES does not....its standard. Since they are different animals, replacement is used just for a reference.

ken brydson

Doro-
Dan's list of likes and dislikes looks like a recommendation. Everything that matters are on his "likes" list. Need to add #7 to the likes list....5 year warranty.
Granted, my DA1 is their entry level but I couldn't be happier. It drives my system to ear bleeding levels with never any sign of strain or clipping. Sure, setup was kind of a **** and the manual didn't help but I think most of that comes from TOO MANY options that need to be set up. Is too many options bad? No. It just takes a little time and in Sony's case, trial and error.
For a sub $500 AVR I don't think there's anything that can touch it.
Just my .02

donahue

Hey all,

I can solve this problem for everyone. Go with NAD and forget about both Sony ES and Denon!

donahue

Maurice

This debate is REALLY helping. I'm 90% there so keep it coming, its great.:D Mantis & Doro, you guys input is exactly what I was looking for; personal experience. I NEVER spend money based on hype alone.;)

shack

I prefer the Denon receivers but their remotes can suck too. I also like Sony products and have several pieces of Sony equipment in my home now....both regular and ES lines. If I had to buy one of the two you mentioned I would probably buy the Denon mainly because I have had very favorable expeience with their receivers. Having said that...based on ATC's experience I may take a serious look at the AVD-C70ES or the newer AVD-C700ES.

Bottom line is I think either could be a very good choice (as well as the NAD opinion - I had a NAD integrated amp and it was a very nice piece of equipment)....It all depends on your preference.

dorokusai

Ken - Thanks for the $.02...the comments are gladly welcome. I agree, I am very happy with my ES also.

That is an excellent point, warranty is a bonus. It was very important to me, I imagine it depends on the individual. I am happy to see another happy ES owner. Nobody likes us

Donahue - That is certainly an option. I think NAD equipment is very nice also.

This is a hard bracket to lose in. Go Denon, Go ES....the points brought up by Mantis are a wash. Let him get his read on.

Shack said it right, bottom line is they are both good receivers.

Maurice

I just ordered the DA4ES from Home Theater By the Sea.com. The input here was so good and I thank everyone. My final decision was due to a few things.

1. The points that mantis made about why he likes the ES are what matter to me most. (like you said ken). Connectability is important, and since I wont be running alot more gear than I am now, the ES has plenty for my current and future needs. Granted, once I move into my dream home and go with a dedicated theater room with front projection, then all bets are off.:p

2. I can be very anal about asthetics, and I like running gear from the same company if at all possible, which is why I started with Sony. I knew the ES line would be available when I was ready to step up into some higher end gear.

3. That being said, if I went with the Denon, the I would HAVE to get the rest of their gear to match, and that means changing out all my gear. As much fun as that can be, there is a WIFE in the picture! (I can see all the married men's heads nodding right now)

So, given all of that, the Sony is the one for ME. But I really do appreciate all the input from you guys. It really did help solidify my decision. Thanx

ken brydson

Good call. Once you get it set up you won't be dissappointed

Grimster74

Okay Maurice, as you can tell there seems to be a 50/50 split here. So what I will do is give you my opinion of the STR-DA4ES. I've never really had a hands on experience with the Denon receiver's, I've listened to many, but never hands on.
They were a few factors that drove my purchase for the Sony, first one being, all ES equipment comes with a 5 year warranty, not 3 years as I've seem people say and the Denon only comes with a 2 year warranty.
One other factor that drove my purchase was the bass management for each speaker. Not sure if Denon does this but it is probally one of the nicer features that the Sony has. The DA4 does video conversion from composite to s-video but will not convert to component like the Denon will, so thats a plus for Denon.
The Sony seems to out weigh the Denon by 5 to 10 lbs. (may be more, may be less) which told me it was of good quality equipment. The appearance of the Sony was also a factor. A majority of the buttons for setup and setting are behind the drop down door which I think is a must if you have younger children in the house or if you just have family and friends that just can't keep they're hands off things. The overall appearance just seems cleaner and less appealing to have to touch.
The remote, what little I have used it, seems to damn complicated. I have a Sony universal that runs the whole system so I really have no need for the remote.
I could go on all day about goods and bads but I think you get the point. All I know is with my setup in a 16'x24'x8' (WxDxH) it drives my setup with ease and to extreme levels. Do I think Sony is worth the purchase. DAMN RIGHT....

Grimster74

Well DAMUM, a minute late, and a dollor shorter....:D

bigsexy1

Congrats Maurice! Even though you went against my reco., the 4es is still a fine machine. You sure could have done a hell of a lot worse! Either way you went between those two, it was a pretty safe choice. BTW, what did you get it for, if you don't mind my asking?


G74, did you ever see a receipt from that guy claiming he got a 5803 for like $500?

Maurice

I got it for $720.00 shipped. I did find it as low as 688.00 but I wasnt familiar enough with that company, you know. But 720 compared to 1000, I'm cool with it.;)

dorokusai

Maurice - Congrats on your new purchase.

Please feel free to contact me, or the other ES owners for any assistance. Grimster and Ken, have knowledge on these puppies.

If you have any dislikes that appear after using the unit for a little while, please post what you feel is not especially becoming of the Sony. That way Mantis can log that into his dislikes column.

Grimster74

Sure, feel free to ask away anytime.