Have to Love The Placebo Effect

heiney9

I've had the opposite effect where I thought I had tubes switched into the system (bypass on the 750) and I didn't, after about 20 minutes and 3 or 4 songs I knew something wasn't quite right. I look and the Dared is switched out of the system. I was only listening to the GFP-750. I know my rig and I know just about every characteristic of every tube I've rolled. It's called experience and critical listening and learning what to listen for and what your preferences are.

H9

pearsall001

heiney9 wrote: »

Come on Phil, are you that superficial in this hobby that you have no control over what you hear and see?

I either like the sound or I don't. It takes some serious evaluation and time for me to decide usually, but when my decison is based on logic, listening preferences, detailed notes and solid methodology to keep many aspects as consistent as possible, in the end it's how it sounds that matters. Not what it costs, not what brand cache or physical attributes, etc. ANd I find if I revist the same piece, my impressions vary very little. I have had speakers that I keep trying to like or a particular tube that is rare and spendy and even though everyone raves about this tube and it;s a collectors piece; I can't get into it and I've had these tubes for almost 3 years and I keep rolling it in thinking the outcome will be different, but it's not.

I'm ready to put them in the FM simply because while they aren't my cup of tea, someone should enjoy them.

H9

Brock, I am not saying that we can't make a rational decision in the gear that we purchase. I just believe that our bias, no matter how slight or unintentional leads us to what we like. You've taken a liking to the sound that tubes deliver so when you listen to gear your bias to that particular sound steers you into what sounds good to you. You also like how MIT cables perform in your system again another bias in what you like to hear. Nelson Pass is another example of what you like in how an amp is designed & the final musicality of that amp. I think you get my point here. We all have it & I firmly believe that it can't be taught away, trained away or in any shape or form completely dismissed when we do our evaluations. In the end it's all good & we know exactly what we like.

heiney9

pearsall001 wrote: »

Brock, I am not saying that we can't make a rational decision in the gear that we purchase. I just believe that our bias, no matter how slight or unintentional leads us to what we like. You've taken a liking to the sound that tubes deliver so when you listen to gear your bias to that particular sound steers you into what sounds good to you. You also like how MIT cables perform in your system again another bias in what you like to hear. Nelson Pass is another example of what you like in how an amp is designed & the final musicality of that amp. I think you get my point here. We all have it & I firmly believe that it can't be taught away, trained away or in any shape or form completely dismissed when we do our evaluations. In the end it's all good & we know exactly what we like.

Sorry Phil, but you are throwing names out there like that's how I decide, it's not. Just because I like something doesn't mean I arrived at that decision based on biases. I am not saying that our biases don't play a part, but just because I like the sound of some tubes (I don't like ALL tubes) it's not fair to say I am biased. Based on your above quote above the reason I like Campbell's soup is because I am biased to that brand. That would be true if I never tried any other soup than Campbell's brand. But if I try, say 5 different brands of soup, and prefer the Campbell's I fail to see how that is "bias", it's preference based on the analysis of other brands.

You can't equate PREFERENCE and BIAS as the same thing, certainly one can influence the other, but it's unfair and very short sighted to say there is a definite correlation for every person for every situation.

H9

pearsall001

This could get as interesting as a cable debate or even A/B/X blind testing. Let's just say I agree to disagree. It is a strange word indeed that has it's way of playing tricks on us.

heiney9

pearsall001 wrote: »

This could get as interesting as a cable debate or even A/B/X blind testing. Let's just say I agree to disagree. It is a strange word indeed that has it's way of playing tricks on us.

Sounds like you have your own biases going on Phil :cheesygrin:

I can agree to disagree. But you have to admit preference's aren't always determined solely by our biases and humans do have the ability to mitigate biases when making choices in many aspects of our lives. We all have different capabilities to do this, however.

The real phenomenon we should be exploring is selective perception, that is one thing we are all guilty of, some more than others. Completely different than biases

Selective Perception - We will tend to perceive things according to our beliefs more than as they really are, and react accordingly.

tonyb

Personally, I think that alot of audio has to do with small incrimental changes/improvements to the sound which because are small, are placed in the "placebo" camp. It's the cumulation of many small changes that eventually can make a night and day difference.

Toolfan66

How can one be bias with gear one has yet to try? You make a decision to purchase a piece of gear that you have yet to have your ears on, your excited to get it in your rig the excitement is then heightened when others are telling you you will love it it's one of the best they have heard and that it will never leave their rig, only to be disappointed with its sound and the piece you spent less on (much less) sounds better then the piece you just spent good money on.

H9 raves about the Dared SL2000 I ended up getting one only to be a little disappointed I have a hard time getting tubes to play well with it. Don't get me wrong I like it when it plays well but I don't find it to be worth all the hype it gets.

Where is the Bias here?

I am bias with isolation and dampening (spikes, blocks, Dynamat ect.) I'm also bias with room treatments, why because I have spent a lot of time with them and find them to work very well. Placebo effect? I highly doubt it.

I could go on with cables but I will avoid getting on that train..

Oh and I'm very bias with synergy in a rig not every piece of gear wants to play nice with other gear and this is one reason I am bias with cables as well.

Note that this is from my experience and is my opinion YMMV...:cheesygrin:

DarqueKnight

Toolfan66 wrote: »

Where is the Bias here?

The only people I have seen raving about the insurmountable effects of listening bias are the ones with little to no experience listening to a wide variety of high quality audio gear.

cnh

Bias is "learned" like most human experiences. And something learned can be changed, emended. You think humans are "finished" projects? Think again. History would not exist if that were the case! And NOTHING would ever "change"?

cnh

Toolfan66

True!!!

DarqueKnight

cnh wrote: »

Bias is "learned" like most human experiences. And something learned can be changed, emended.

Well, I have it on good authority that the above statement applies to everything else except stereophonic audio.

Advisories in this thread indicate that theories pertaining to the "unlearning" of biases have never been tested. Apparently there is no evidence that people can change strongly held beliefs.

Apparently, there is certainly something about stereophonic audio wherein the pertinent biases cannot be overcome by any means whatsoever. However, I cannot get anyone to tell me what that "certain something" is. I guess I need to be a cult member to receive that "special knowledge".

---

I think that "certain something" is religious belief and wishful thinking.

Stop being rational. It's very unbecoming for you.~DK

Toolfan66

DarqueKnight wrote: »

Apparently there is no evidence that people can change strongly held beliefs.

HEHE!!!!!:cool: