Does length really matter?

Unknown

What is your opinion on the "length matters" debate?
IC's, Power cables. Digital cables????

Opinions?

A few examples of my "from scratch shorter cables".:cheesygrin:

Any input?
Long vs. short?

I would like to hear your thoughts.


You think it makes a difference?

audiocr381ve

It's all about width.

Systems

audiocr381ve wrote: »

It's all about width.

LMAO!
I never thought about that!:cheesygrin:

Systems

These are all used cables, but luckily, my ole lady likes the SQ of the shorter ones!:cheesygrin:

Face

According to the president of Wireworld, all WW power cords should be at least 2 meters long to take advantage of the additional filtering they offer.

Systems

I'm not so sure.
I have made probably made 100-125 power cables, and IMHO, a 4 footer would be my ideal.
I recently tested this theory with a 4,5, 6 and 8.5 footer on hand.
On my system at least, the 4 footer sounded better to me.
The shortest cable I have made was 2 foot (dangerous:eek:) and alot of 3 footers.
JMHO.
Absolutely nothing scientific about it, just my ears, the 4 footer was better.

I have just been doing alot length vs. awg cable tests recently, and was hoping to get some insight from other members, as far as SQ vs Length.
Not sure if you have ever built a 10 foot pair of IC's from scratch, but just FYI, they sound different than a 2 foot pair.:cheesygrin:

Can you tell a difference?

2 foot, 3, 4 5 foot?

chumlie

Pep. I suggest you go to your bedroom system and try a double blind test. And post her results.

Systems

chumlie wrote: »

Pep. I suggest you go to your bedroom system and try a double blind test. And post her results.

I likes da bedroom system!:cheesygrin::eek:

From 1 shelf up, to the next room.
Rekon they sound different?

The misconception being, people do NOT think they should/do sound different!
That is my problem!

Think these will sound as good as the 2 footers in the first pic?

EndersShadow

I like 1.5 or 2m IC's simply because it gives me flexibility when moving gear around in my rack. I have had instances in the past where I couldnt put things where I wanted due to that.

Plus depending on the cost of the IC's you are looking at, the last thing you want to do is drop 500 on some 1m IC's from someone like MIT and then have to get some 2m ones later on because you added more gear and cant make the 1m's work.

As far as sounding different, well I dont have any super long cables (speaker, ic or power cables) to test against super short ones lol.

Systems

EndersShadow wrote: »

I like 1.5 or 2m IC's simply because it gives me flexibility when moving gear around in my rack. I have had instances in the past where I couldnt put things where I wanted due to that.

Plus depending on the cost of the IC's you are looking at, the last thing you want to do is drop 500 on some 1m IC's from someone like MIT and then have to get some 2m ones later on because you added more gear and cant make the 1m's work.

As far as sounding different, well I dont have any super long cables (speaker, ic or power cables) to test against super short ones lol.

That is a damn good point Dan.
Naturally, I have thought about that in the past, but certainly, you would not expect them (except for the MIT's) to sound as good as a 2 foot pair of IC's?
No?

tonyb

For power cords, I really can't comment as I've only had 3 or 4 footers. IC's....shorter the better but like others said, you can shoot yourself in the foot when it comes time to moving gear around in the rack. As far as being audible between a 1m or 2m IC, not by my ears anyway.
Bottom line.....don't sweat it and buy what suits your needs. If your switching gear around that often, you have other issues.

cstmar01

Length always matters but it always takes so long to get where you want to go in a freight boat.

steveinaz

Since interconnecting cables are a necessary evil and yet another thing "in the way" of the signal, It's my opinion that shorter is always better.

falconcry72

hey pep, as far as AWG for speaker cables, do you think there's a max size for carrying an audio signal, that beyond which you wouldn't gain an improvement?

I have plans for a 7AWG cable in the works. 7 is double 10, for those who don't know.

BeefJerky

Sure length matters, but it is not the only factor. The proper equation is:
C= ((LxG)/(∠B)) / (M/W)

This means that the conductivity factor of the cable is derived from:
length times girth over the sharpness of the cable's bend (when put into use) divided by mass over width.

pitdogg2

Personally I like mine to be just as long as needed. A friend has made some cables for me out of good Belden cable with Canare ends in 3' and the same in 18" using both i could tell no difference. On the other hand you also must consider the device you are hooking up. For instance this same friend went from TV to projector and his DVD player would not push a signal through a 50' component cable and at 25' it was bad at best but at 9' worked just fine. In the end he made extra long audio cables and made a stand for the DVD player to be closer to the projector. All cables were quality cables from Madisound. When he built his new theater room this was a lessen he kept in mind for the gear tower.

maximillian

Mighty fine looking cables. Maybe it's just me, but I like the black ones better. Someday I'll try them out; hopefully not too stiff in my system.

pepster wrote: »

Jstas

Length and width (gauge) both matter because as you increase gauge and length, you increase resistance and that change in resistance affects your signal transfer. It doesn't "filter" anything, it just reduces strength and that cuts the strength of all signals in the path, not just the noise.

In power cables, extra length helps with heat during peak draw because there is more material available to absorb heat. Therefore it takes longer for the power cord to heat up to an unsafe point.

sucks2beme

Most DAC makers want you to use the shortest USB cable you can.
As far as other cables go, my rule is always shorter is better.
Longer power cables are better for heat? No, shorter and bigger gauge is better.
Lower resistance means less power is turned to heat in the cable and more of it is
delivered to the device.

BlueFox

So far, all we are getting is opinion. Here is one more.

The length, along with other characteristics, will affect the signal. Depending upon the gear at either end of the cable, there may, or may not be, an effect. It would seem to be possible that in some situations a longer cable could be 'better' than a shorter cable. Other situations could be reversed.

sucks2beme

In the real world, shorter is always better. Electronics 101.
Digital cables- shorter = better.
If your are using an analog cable to change the sound with it's impedance
whole other story. That where all the arguments start.

Drenis

sucks2beme wrote: »

Digital cables- shorter = better.

Hmm... I have heard some differing opinions about that. See quote below:

Anything else in a digital cable I would recommend going with a 1.5m length.
It eliminates digital reflections caused by timing issues.
You can tell a difference.

Matter of fact, the person who stated this quote has posted in this thread.

steveinaz

sucks2beme wrote: »

In the real world, shorter is always better. Electronics 101.
Digital cables- shorter = better.
If your are using an analog cable to change the sound with it's impedance
whole other story. That where all the arguments start.

EXACTLY. The truth of the matter (not opinion) is any cable between 2 pieces of equipment is a deficit; so logic would dictate that shorter is always better. Now, if you're attempting to "manipulate" the original signal....there ya go.

steveinaz

Drenis wrote: »

Hmm... I have heard some differing opinions about that. See quote below:
Matter of fact, the person who stated this quote has posted in this thread.

This depends on the receiver/sender interface quality of the equipment, and it's adherence to the 75ohm standard--and is still VERY debatable. You'll hear arguments on both sides on this topic.

Some "experts" claim that your speaker cables should be at least 8 feet in length as well---I think they just need different speakers. Hi-fi is all about eliminating weak links, cables are weak links, regardless of quality, topolgy, and/or length.

codyc1ark

Whats the length of a wire coat hanger after you've undone it and made it straight? About 2 feet or so? Sometimes they break when undoing them at the top, so, whatever length my coathangers are...

steveinaz

plastic or metal?

codyc1ark

steveinaz wrote: »

plastic or metal?

Metal, with a plastic coating for shielding of course!! :cheesygrin:

cincycat13

I do feel that length matters. If the cable is too SHORT to connect my equipment together...it seems like I can't hear any sound.

Jstas

BlueFox wrote: »

So far, all we are getting is opinion. Here is one more.

The length, along with other characteristics, will affect the signal. Depending upon the gear at either end of the cable, there may, or may not be, an effect. It would seem to be possible that in some situations a longer cable could be 'better' than a shorter cable. Other situations could be reversed.

???

Opinion?

Man, you're daft!

Physics dictates that length and gauge matter. It can be proven with actual math. It's not opinion. It is actual, proven, scientific fact.

Dennis Gardner

Jstas wrote: »

Length and width (gauge) both matter because as you increase gauge and length, you increase resistance and that change in resistance affects your signal transfer. It doesn't "filter" anything, it just reduces strength and that cuts the strength of all signals in the path, not just the noise.

In power cables, extra length helps with heat during peak draw because there is more material available to absorb heat. Therefore it takes longer for the power cord to heat up to an unsafe point.

Increasing gauge size actually reduces resistance when compared to cables of same length. The added material flows easier. I guess the longer power cord would take longer to heat up, but a larger/shorter cord with less resistance, eliminates the heat too.

Did I misunderstand your take, John and you actually want us to use very small, very long power cords? I think you have it backwards.

Jstas

Dennis Gardner wrote: »

Increasing gauge size actually reduces resistance when compared to cables of same length. The added material flows easier. I guess the longer power cord would take longer to heat up, but a larger/shorter cord with less resistance, eliminates the heat too.

Did I misunderstand your take, John and you actually want us to use very small, very long power cords? I think you have it backwards.

If you increase gauge and your performance increases, your previous wires were too small.

You can have a gauge that is too large and will increase resistance.

Don't be a smartass. If you don't believe me, you can look up yourself. There are formulas you can use to determine the gauge of wire you need for a certain application. This isn't wire mumbo-jumbo and "hearing is believing" and all that other BS.

In fact, since you want to "educate" me and mock me because you don't understand, here, learn something:

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_12/5.html

You can get your education for free. It cost me $1600+ a term to learn it in Circuits I 15 years ago

This one explains the equations: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/resis.html