An ELITE model of polk speakers.

mantis

I was reading one of F1nut's replies to a thread and it got me thinking.
How cool would it be IF polk would offer an Elite based line off the main stock lines? Example the RTIA7 which is a great sounding speaker at it's price point. You know many in here are modifying the crossovers and making improvements in overall sound quality. With cost no object RTIA7E for Elite seres or whatever they would want to call the line, imagine how good the RTIA7 could be IF they spared no expense?

What IF this happened to the older LSI line? Remember the woofer upgrade that made a huge difference in low end extension? That was a simple upgrade , imagine if the engineers got ahold of the crossover and completely reworked it with the best possible parts?

Think of the new LSIM series which by the way is pretty damn fantastic , tweaking them just a bit more and offering it to the select few who would be willing to pay that bit more for the best product polk could offer?

Polk audio is built off of offering amazing sounding speakers at an affordable price. Trying to edge out others in their repeated price classes. But what would happen IF they just went balls out and revamped the lines with a small offering in an Elite type product?

What do you guys think?

EndersShadow

I think it would be a bust like the SRT system. Awesome flagship model but very few sets were sold specifically due to cost.

Plus lets be honest, how long till our forum starts opening up the LSiM's to upgrade the crossovers ourselves lol. I am surprised Trey hasnt got a set to do that with already lol....

I like the idea, but the added extra costs would probably not reap much for Polk in the way of money.

The ONLY way I can see that working is if it was a special order type deal where you HAD to purchase through Polk and then they would do them as the orders came in so they didnt end up with sets sitting there for years waiting on a buyer.

Willow

I think it is a good idea, they could even ship out pNp parts for those not good with a soldering gun to upgrade their speaker guts.

Drenis

Pioneer does this... unfortunately we all know just how elite they are.

I don't know if I would not buy a product like whats proposed simply because with the work involved, I now know what's involved and what the costs associated to it are. The price of said "Elite" models will probably exceed that price of mods by a fair margin for profit sake.

Modded A9's vs stock LSiM 705's - Same price for each. What would you take?

heiney9

This has been talked about extensively before and I think we came to the conclusion that beyond a handful of people here on CP, no one would really care. It's hard enough given todays methods of selling, without demo, to sell normal stock, let alone a special edition, etc.

Some of these questions were even posed by KAB when doing some market research on the new LSi-M line.

H9

tonyb

Ask Legacy or Montana how well it works.

When you reach a certain price class, your customer base changes. Polks claim to fame has always been to the masses, a well built, good sounding speaker that anyone could afford. I personally think the newer LSIM's are pushing that boundary they locked themselves into.

The diy crowd will always be able to do upgrades, tweeks, better and cheaper. On the flip side, a collection of quality parts alone does not make a good sounding speaker. There's more to it than just getting the best parts available, and thats the line that seperates the DIY crowd from a manufacturers upgraded speaker. Besides, Polk has already gone down that road with the RTI line. They came out with the RTIA's, an improved version. There's also a side to this that wants to avoid competeing lines within the brand too. Offering upgrades within the same line for not alot of coin could kill sales of the standard line, where profit margins are the greatest.

cnh

I'm not following this. Isn't the LSi-M line that "already"? Isn't this, exactly, what Polk has done?

Instead of Elite just think of them as an LSi-Magnum!

Now I'm sure some of the boys will try to tweak LSi-M crossovers. But theoretically what's in there already is about as good as it can get unless you plan to spend twice the cost of the speakers "upgrading" them. And if you did that, wouldn't you be calling all the engineers that worked on the LSi-Ms morons? I mean, really? Some of you are just "obsessive compulsive"--get some meds already and leave well enough alone on these!

cnh

polkfarmboy

The upgrade would undermine the value of the standard lines and would increase the bottom line on profit margins

dkg999

I'm sure if someone wanted to commit to a 1000 units or so that Polk would create a reseller arrangement and co-branding so that a Special Edition version of a Polk product could be made and marketed. This would be similar to the NuForce editions of the Oppo units. Money talks ............ the rest of us just kick around ideas on internet forums

heiney9

polkfarmboy wrote: »

would increase the bottom line on profit margins

Spoken from someone who obviously has never been around a concept like this. If anything it would decrease profit margins unless it could be completed on a very large scale, which would contradict what "Limited Edition" means and what would be accomplishing.

As the first example that comes to mind; ask Nelson Pass if his First Watt line increases his profit margin with limited runs of very specific products. No, his profit to keep the doors open comes from the Pass Labs gear which sells in higher volumes with more profit built into the business model.

H9

newrival

cnh wrote: »

I'm not following this. Isn't the LSi-M line that "already"? Isn't this, exactly, what Polk has done?

I think what they mean is something like a Limited edition flagship, or statement piece. Drennis brought up Pioneer, and although I think he was talking about the literal "Elite" Line (which is akin to Integra to Onkyo), Pioneer's TAD line is truly elite, Not just "the expensive version."

I think it would be great if Polk did it. It's great to see a company flex their muscles once in a while. Just like with the KEF Blade. I think it helps a brands image to have a reference speaker that is out of range for 95% of their clients. It's like the Ford GT or the Nissan GT-R or Acura NSX, etc. It adds to brand recognition and brand pride. Its another way to show that a company is at the forefront of an industry and not just aiming for the fattest section of the bell curve. People enjoy lineage and provenance. They like to think that even if they can't afford the $100,000 Polk Windchime Abyss Reference 7 that what Polk they do own is cut from the same cloth.

I would love the idea if Polk chose to do so.

tonyb

Given the state of the economy, higher end gear is the first to take a crap. Wouldn't make sense from a buisness stand point and Polk is in buisness to make money, not just swap dollars.

heiney9

newrival wrote: »

I think what they mean is something like a Limited edition flagship, or statement piece. Drennis brought up Pioneer, and although I think he was talking about the literal "Elite" Line (which is akin to Integra to Onkyo), Pioneer's TAD line is truly elite, Not just "the expensive version."

I think it would be great if Polk did it. It's great to see a company flex their muscles once in a while. Just like with the KEF Blade. I think it helps a brands image to have a reference speaker that is out of range for 95% of their clients. It's like the Ford GT or the Nissan GT-R or Acura NSX, etc. It adds to brand recognition and brand pride. Its another way to show that a company is at the forefront of an industry and not just aiming for the fattest section of the bell curve. People enjoy lineage and provenance. They like to think that even if they can't afford the $100,000 Polk Windchime Abyss Reference 7 that what Polk they do own is cut from the same cloth.

I would love the idea if Polk chose to do so.

You have to be VERY careful not to alienate your current demographic. And to be honest even if Polk did make a statement piece (which they already have done called the $10K SRT system) many of the audiophiles who have that kind of income wouldn't even consider the Polk name.

Case in point; anyone remember the Volkswagen Phaeton? An upper level luxury car aimed at the high end BMW and MB sedan market. Fully optioned around $85K. Really, really nice car, lots of positive press, well done. Guess what? No wanted an $85K Volkswagen. The brand image isn't there to support it, it was a market failure even though it was a great car.

Polk is a sense is the VW of the audio world and I do fear the LSi-M is really pushing the upper limits for their target demographic. It's a very fine line, no matter how brilliant the product is, if you stray too far from the target audience you might not have as succesful a product even if it is a great product.

H9

polkfarmboy

heiney9 wrote: »

Spoken from someone who obviously has never been around a concept like this. If anything it would decrease profit margins unless it could be completed on a very large scale, which would contradict what "Limited Edition" means and what would be accomplishing.

As the first example that comes to mind; ask Nelson Pass if his First Watt line increases his profit margin with limited runs of very specific products. No, his profit to keep the doors open comes from the Pass Labs gear which sells in higher volumes with more profit built into the business model.

H9

I meant decease the bottom line on profit

Lietuvis91

Drenis wrote: »

Modded A9's vs stock LSiM 705's - Same price for each. What would you take?

I think this is a great illustration of why this idea wouldn't work very well. Who here will buy the "Elite" version of the RTIA speaker before buying an LSIM for the same price?!

At the point where you have competing priducts within the same brand, you are complicating things unnecessarily, and there's a good chance you are also confusing your "regular" shopper, which might make them chose another brand just for simplicity sake.

How many flavors of the Iphone can you get? 1... People like simple...

cnh wrote: »

I'm not following this. Isn't the LSi-M line that "already"? Isn't this, exactly, what Polk has done?

Instead of Elite just think of them as an LSi-Magnum!

cnh

This is spot on, imo. Polk stepped up their game, to compete with the new products from KEF and other's in a similar price range. This is the "Elite" LSI.

newrival

heiney9 wrote: »

You have to be VERY careful not to alienate your current demographic. And to be honest even if Polk did make a statement piece (which they already have done called the $10K SRT system) many of the audiophiles who have that kind of income wouldn't even consider the Polk name.

Case in point; anyone remember the Volkswagen Phaeton? An upper level luxury car aimed at the high end BMW and MB sedan market. Fully optioned around $85K. Really, really nice car, lots of positive press, well done. Guess what? No wanted an $85K Volkswagen. The brand image isn't there to support it, it was a market failure even though it was a great car.

Polk is a sense is the VW of the audio world and I do fear the LSi-M is really pushing the upper limits for their target demographic. It's a very fine line, no matter how brilliant the product is, if you stray too far from the target audience you might not have as succesful a product even if it is a great product.

H9

Good points all.

While you bring up the Phaeton, it was doomed from the start. Not because of the price or alienation, but because it was a failed design. People who pay $90k for a car want it to look like a $100k car, not a $40k grocery getter. It looked identical to the Passat, just on a larger scale. They thought that they had clients that were buying Passats only because there wasn't a more expensive sedan, and they were wrong. Look at the successful CC. If they would have used a similar more sophisticated aesthetic, I guarantee the would've sold a lot more. Case in point: the Hyundai Genesis. Here you had a car maker from Korea that was the laughing stock of the US auto press and critic. They leveraged their low prices and hired some great engineers and designers and recognized that they could bring luxury that is on par with the rest of the field. VW just aimed for the wrong client (or completely misunderstood them). A company needs to realize (and this echoes your point) who their clients are, but as importantly, who they want their client to be.

As a funny side note. I lived in a small town in more central Illinois when they came out. In a town of 17,000, 8 people had a Phaeton. A complete anomaly, but friends would come visit and say "Look! a Phaeton!" and I'd say "yeah there are a ton of them, so what?" and I had no idea how poorly they sold. But to be fair, they were a sweet driving car. I drove one to Iowa and all the little features were great. They just weren't ostentatious enough.

mantis

Drenis wrote: »

Pioneer does this... unfortunately we all know just how elite they are.

I don't know if I would not buy a product like whats proposed simply because with the work involved, I now know what's involved and what the costs associated to it are. The price of said "Elite" models will probably exceed that price of mods by a fair margin for profit sake.

Modded A9's vs stock LSiM 705's - Same price for each. What would you take?

It really depends on the use of given speaker which one to take. But it would be intersting

mantis

DSkip wrote: »

It would be nice for all of us hobbyists, but for the general public (the more or less "typical" Polk customer) it wouldn't make sense to them since there might not be any VISIBLE differences. This would lead to more confusion than its worth on Polk's end and might actually hurt them more than help.

On the other hand, "Special Edition" speakers with mods and a special, exotic veneer might not be bad. It'd be a short run that specifically targets hobbyists. With both audible and visual upgrades, I think that could be an interesting foray. Even then, it probably isn't cost effective.

Many speaker companies offer a special edition model , I'd like to see Polk do the same.

Drenis

mantis wrote: »

Many speaker companies offer a special edition model , I'd like to see Polk do the same.

Lets assume the LSiM is the new LSi signature flagship sound. Some members here have stated that the 703's in stock trim are equal or better then modded 9's. Compare prices new for those models and you see where I'm going.

decal

tonyb wrote: »

Given the state of the economy, higher end gear is the first to take a crap. Wouldn't make sense from a buisness stand point and Polk is in buisness to make money, not just swap dollars.

I have to disagree with the first part of your post. The higher end gear, especially exotic stuff, is more likely than not bought by folks with unlimited funds. The current state of the economy has very little to do with their spending habits. I do agree with you that it wouldn't be good for Polk who, let's be frank, doesn't cater to that type of consumer.

Face

tonyb wrote: »

Given the state of the economy, higher end gear is the first to take a crap.

A few items in the Burmester line are on backorder due to an increase in demand, so I don't believe this is true.

pearsall001

It'll never happen...makes zero business sense.

Gatecrasher

I don't think it makes zero business sense..but maybe for Polk as a large corporation it does.

Let's face it, there would be limited demand but there still is a market out there for "souped up" or flagship models.

A more realistic approach would be for an aftermarket distributor or dealership to offer modified or enhanced Polk speakers to the niche' market.

Sort of like Baldwin Chevrolet "Baldwin Motion", Nickey Chevrolet, Don Yenko, and others have done with muscle cars. They basically buy stripped-down versions from the automakers and add their own performance packages to them making them high-performance enhanced supercars. They cost more but are attractive to the more demanding market and to people looking for something a little more.

Maybe not go to the extent that these guys do but even offering more subtle enhancements might actually attract buyers looking for something out of the ordinary. Maybe offer different levels or stages of enhancements on special order from mild to all-out king of the hill.

Just a thought but it's a business some people right here on the forum could probably get into if they wanted and they might actually be able to make a few bucks at the same time.

gp4jesus

heiney9 wrote: »

You have to be VERY careful not to alienate your current demographic. ...even if Polk did make a statement piece... ...many of the audiophiles who have that kind of income wouldn't even consider the Polk name.

Case in point,...remember the Volkswagen Phaeton? An upper level luxury car aimed at the high end BMW and MB market. Fully optioned around $85K. Really, nice car, lots of positive press... ...No wanted an $85K Volkswagen. ...it was a market failure even though it was a great car.

Polk is the VW of the audio world and I do fear the LSi-M is really pushing the upper limits for their target demographic. It's a very fine line, no matter how brilliant the product is, if you stray too far from the target audience you might not have as successful a product even if it is a great product.

H9

I lean strongly towards H9 thinking. His VW example says it eloquently.

Yes a small percentage of us would pay for upscale XO parts & better wire. One only needs to look at VR3's growing fan base along w/ a couple of other DIY Polkies also handy w/a soldering iron buying upscale XO parts. Or one comment I read somewhere recently "...listened to modded 'A9s against stock LS something, a difficult choice."

Polk's labor would be the same. Polk should receive volume discounts on parts & wire, passing the $ difference plus a small mark-up to the buyer. They'd have to sell enough of them to justify the effort - like any business they're in it for the $$. As a side to this: Ford relies on truck sales for profit; subcompact sales for CAFE requirements only - not for profit! Failure to meet CAFE would cost Ford more in fines than selling the subcompacts at a loss.

Polk could try what Honda, Toyota, & Nissan did w/Acura, Lexus, & Infinity respectively. Similarly VW & Audi.

Re-skin the LS series into it & renaming some RTi A series models in the process. Its no accident some of the smaller/lower end Lexus, Infinity, Audi offerings, nameplates and interior details aside, are identical to Toyota, Nissan, & VW products. The less obvious, like XO parts & internal wiring: ride comfort, smoother shifting transmissions, differently tuned engines usually w/more power. In time, some of the higher-end tech trickles down to "other brands" offerings. I remember reading this in the auto press, testing a Sienna mini-van "...a more Lexus-like feel than in earlier models."

my $.02, Tony

mantis

I'd like to see a special edition of a RTIa speaker and see how good polk can make a 8 ohm load speaker thats easy to drive.

nooshinjohn

The only "ELITE" line of speakers I have interest in coming from Polk would be an "SDA-SRS Aniversary Platinum Edition", limited to no more than 750 pairs worldwide. They should use the finest available components and a modern approach to the cabinet design, each hand-signed by Matt Polk himself. Perhaps there should be three different models based off the CRS, 1c's and the 1.2TL's, with the first two being priced so that they were modestly affordable. The limited edition nature of such a project would give them an instant following, elevate the brand by calling attention to their history, and would likely turn a nice profit at the same time. Magnepan is rumored to be re-visiting their iconic Tympani line for such a project.

Face

nooshinjohn wrote: »

The only "ELITE" line of speakers I have interest in coming from Polk would be an "SDA-SRS Aniversary Platinum Edition", limited to no more than 750 pairs worldwide. They should use the finest available components and a modern approach to the cabinet design, each hand-signed by Matt Polk himself. Perhaps there should be three different models based off the CRS, 1c's and the 1.2TL's, with the first two being priced so that they were modestly affordable. The limited edition nature of such a project would give them an instant following, elevate the brand by calling attention to their history, and would likely turn a nice profit at the same time. Magnepan is rumored to be re-visiting their iconic Tympani line for such a project.

You're going to fork out 10-20K a pair?

deronb1

Polk had a "signiture sound" in the late 70s to late 80s. SDAs, RTAs, and some older Monitors emcompass what a true break through in sound for the dollar could be established. In a competitive buisness, Polk still offers a lot of bang for the buck, but IMO their older speakers still sound the best.

nooshinjohn

Face wrote: »

You're going to fork out 10-20K a pair?

I can see an easy sell of about 3k for the CRS, 5k for the 1c's and 10k for the 1.2TL's... the only thing the new would have in common with the old is the front baffle and cabinet volume. Everything else would be upgraded and modernized to bring the technology into the 21st century, yet hold true to the magic that made us all Polkies to begin with, at those prices... I am all in and not look back.

tonyb

The 5k-10k market is just as crowded as the lower end with choices, and would be a slow seller if not just for the loyal Polkies. Translates into not much profit.....which the bean counters would nix from the get go.

Comes a time my friends when dreaming of another signature speaker from Polk....remains just that, a dream. If you've run the gamut of Polk offerings and still want more, time to change brands. No shame in it, alot of us have moved on to other brands.

nooshinjohn

tonyb wrote: »

Comes a time my friends when dreaming of another signature speaker from Polk....remains just that, a dream. If you've run the gamut of Polk offerings and still want more, time to change brands. No shame in it, alot of us have moved on to other brands.

Sadly, I concur, which is why if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself...