question on pre out on a harman kardon 3470

boston1450
boston1450 Posts: 7,640
edited April 2012 in 2 Channel Audio
i bought a HK3470. it had a rca line from pre out to main in...i do believe....i took it off... i hooked a amp to pre out then hooked amp to front speakers then hooked the speaker wires up to b from reciever to rear speakers....i had nothing for sound coming out of anything....i played with the a-b switch. still nothing but a faint signal i shut it off. took it all apart..put it back the way it came. it worked great....i would like to use the amp on the front sda2's....then on b select use the rta,s also as rears.....i had used this like this on another HKavr45 and it worked fine...any suggestions why it doesnt work on the 3470....is the pre-out different
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    Just a guess as I'm not familiar with the functionality of your receiver, but seeing as how the 3470 is a stereo receiver, it likely isn't going to function like an AVR My guess is that the manual is going to discourage you from hooking up both line-level and pre outs simultaneously. I'm curious why you're trying to run "rears" on a stereo signal. it is only going to be a mirror signal of the front which is only going to interfere with the stereo image.

    Maybe I'm missing what you're trying to accomplish here?
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    i played around alittle too.i hooked a cd player to amp direct..no reciever.. i hooked the amp up to the sda2 speakers....wow did that sound some good. used the volume buttons on the denon poa2200 amp the control volume. was that powerful. kinda fun playing around there.....but i would like to be able to use the pre-out on reciever... to the amp. then amp to the speaker....what is it im doing wrong. lol
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    should be able to use a power amp on a 3470.... its got a pre out...or am i wrong
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    AVR's are able to utilize rear channels by way of DSP to create illusory effects. creating two identical and competing zones (which is what you're doing) is highly discouraged.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    boston1450 wrote: »
    i played around alittle too.i hooked a cd player to amp direct..no reciever.. i hooked the amp up to the sda2 speakers....wow did that sound some good. used the volume buttons on the denon poa2200 amp the control volume. was that powerful. kinda fun playing around there.....but i would like to be able to use the pre-out on reciever... to the amp. then amp to the speaker....what is it im doing wrong. lol

    ok, so the pre-outs are not working even with nothing hooked up to your line-levels? Not to sound condescending but Are you positive you have the settings? I have wasted a good hour before trying to figure out why I had no sound and I had the wrong input selected the whole time.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    I'm looking at the manual for your receiver now... maybe it will divulge some secret. you should be passing the signal to the amp throught the pre-outs. no question.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    a couple questions:

    have you run your speakers of the receiver's amp section? If yes then the pre-out has to be working as it passes the signal through the jumper pins back into the "main in" and then through the amp section of the receiver and then to the line-level outs.

    If you're the receiver is pushing your speakers fine with the jumper pin in, then something has to be hooked up wrong. The amp section is virtually independent in that receiver and so the receiver cannot output sound if the preouts are not working. If all you do is remove the jumper pins and attach an interconnect from your amp to the "pre out" and you're getting nothing, the problem must be somewhere else

    are you using the spot that says "pre out"?
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    i may not understand....if you can use...a and b on stereo at the same time on a reciever....if you hook up a power amp shouldnt the system push a to the amp....then reciever will still push signal to b speakers( i will call rears)....im pretty sure it worked on my avr45 like that....maybe theres a difference with avr than there is with stereo....as you can tell. im not good with electronics. but i wanna learn
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    when i did try it. i pluged rca cord to pre out..then to amp..then speaker wire to speakers
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    if i disconnect EVERYTHING and run a rca plug from pre out to amp..then amp to speakers. that should work my set of speakers........are you saying i cant hook speakers on b select and use them also
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    yes that is correct, because you are taking the receivers amp out of the equation when you remove the jumper pins.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    oh. i get it....not a good idea. my l room is 16:::24 maybe i should go with a avr.....do you think using just the reciever at 100 watts is still not a good idea for 2 sets of speakers at the same time..without a power amp
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    you can do that with a avr unit
    ..
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    think of it this way: you have a separate preamp and an amp in one box. They do not interact. The "main in" is the input to your amplifier. The "pre out" is the output of your preamplifier. The jumper pins pass the signal from your preamp to your amp. Once you remove the pins, there is no longer a connection from your pre to your amp and thus no signal to amplify to your speakers.

    You could overcome this by purchasing a "splitter" or "Y" interconnect, but why would you? Unless you are going to run the speakers in another room. If you run them in the same room you are going to ruin the stereo image, and isn't that the whole reason a person would own a pair of SDAs????
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    with just the reciever it sounds pretty good at 100 watts. i bought the denon poa amp because i thought the sda2's needed more power
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    I wouldn't recommend it for the speakers you're trying to run. They are slightly demanding. There Likely isn't much current running through that thing, and I'd bet capacitance is next to nothing. I'd bet you'd fry it or your tweeters pretty darn quickly.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    hey. that makes sence
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    boston1450 wrote: »
    with just the reciever it sounds pretty good at 100 watts. i bought the denon poa amp because i thought the sda2's needed more power

    Yeah, I get that, but why are you trying to run "surround" speakers????
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    i dont want to do that. i love these speakers. ive only owned them for 3weeks. so i need to get it right
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    ive only owned surround HK in the past. i need to do more homework here..i do thank you. i have not used these more than a hour if that in 2 weeks since i got amp n this reciever. so i need to research some
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    do all people who have sda2 run just those 2 speakers
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    i am going to re read what youve told me here its valueable information. i need that. thank you very very much. feedback is needed
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    ok great. Then here's what you should do:

    step 1: Sit down and listen to them through the receiver
    step 2: pull out the pins and hook up your external amplifier.
    step 3: see which you like better. If you can't tell the difference, then return the amp
    step 4: sit back and enjoy it
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    boston1450 wrote: »
    do all people who have sda2 run just those 2 speakers

    Some people use them in a Home Theater setup, but that is much different, and more complicated.

    For listening to music, you only need the 2 speakers. thats it.

    by the way, which POA amp did you buy? How many channels are on it?
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    boston1450 wrote: »
    ive only owned surround HK in the past. i need to do more homework here..i do thank you. i have not used these more than a hour if that in 2 weeks since i got amp n this reciever. so i need to research some

    If you've only had them that long, I might suggest you return the receiver and the amp if you are within the window and purcha a preamp and perhaps a different amplifier. Specifically, a high current one. Or just a really nice integrated amp. like something from Creek, Cambridge Audio, Peachtree, PS Audio, etc.
    design is where science and art break even.
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    the amp is a poa 2200 denon. i did some research on it. it said 200watt 8ohm. 300 watt 4 ohm....not sure about channel i got book but its tucked away n wife is sleeping...if i run just amp and cd player to the sda2's would that be ok....i dont mind that
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    never heard of any of those. are those big buck items
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    i dont need my ears to bleed. just want to listen to some beautiful music. was using all paradigms. was trying to save money because they are expensive today. im finding out others are too. kinda discouraging
    ..
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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,640
    edited April 2012
    thank you for your feedback. calling it a night. thanx
    ..
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  • newrival
    newrival Posts: 2,017
    edited April 2012
    ahhh, I see. I thought it was one of the new ones. OK so stick with that amp a while. did you buy the receiver used as well? if so, stick with it too. you can upgrade down the road if you so choose. and if it sounds great to you, don't upgrade. Be happy with it!

    the ones I mentioned can be somewhat pricey. ranging from $650 - $1200 on the used market. but it's all in one. I don't know about you, but I like to keep it simple. And really, modern integrateds are quite good.
    design is where science and art break even.
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