Epik Castle vs dual MFW15s

EndersShadow

mole' wrote: »

yes on the smaller footprint for now. I have some added bass from my LSi speakers too. still playing with the subs placement tho. entertainment center in the middle, then the subs and the LSi's on the outside sounds best so far

i would have liked to of done that trade for the MFW-15s but it did not go down. they are not much bigger then the 505

Personally I would almost look to get a SMS-1 so you can get some really nice EQ between where the LSi's drop off and where the 505's will pick up.

Its on my list to purchase here in a week when my bonus comes in. I am hoping it really helps me dial in my 15's and PSW125 since you can see real time response at your LP.

Drenis

EndersShadow wrote: »

Personally I would almost look to get a SMS-1 so you can get some really nice EQ between where the LSi's drop off and where the 505's will pick up.

Its on my list to purchase here in a week when my bonus comes in. I am hoping it really helps me dial in my 15's and PSW125 since you can see real time response at your LP.

Isn't the SMS-1 a fixed output @ 80hz? I could swear it wasn't adjustable.

edoggrc51

Drenis wrote: »

Isn't the SMS-1 a fixed output @ 80hz?

Not sure what you mean by this, but im using one for my DIY subs and it does a great job.

Drenis

edoggrc51 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by this, but im using one for my DIY subs and it does a great job.

The output jacks of the SMS-1 are not adjustable on the hi-pass filter side.

HiPass Crossover 80 Hz (6dB/octave slope)

EndersShadow

Drenis wrote: »

The output jacks of the SMS-1 are not adjustable on the hi-pass filter side.

Ahhh.... I see what your saying.

But he is looking for bass in a smaller footprint he is probably running his LSi's as full range to begin with and not through the hi-pass filter.....

Or at least thats what I plan on doing with my 15's. Not sure how he's got things connected with his 25's....

edoggrc51

Drenis wrote: »

The output jacks of the SMS-1 are not adjustable on the hi-pass filter side.

The HPF is fully adjustable down to 5hz and has several different slopes to choose from (6-12-18-24dbs). The LPF is the one that's not adjustable.

mole'

EndersShadow wrote: »

Ahhh.... I see what your saying.

But he is looking for bass in a smaller footprint he is probably running his LSi's as full range to begin with and not through the hi-pass filter.....

Or at least thats what I plan on doing with my 15's. Not sure how he's got things connected with his 25's....

im open to ideas/inputs on how making my setup better.....

just got my new entertainment center today. so im moving things around. system will be down for a few days til i get everything setup.

EndersShadow

mole' wrote: »

im open to ideas/inputs on how making my setup better.....

just got my new entertainment center today. so im moving things around. system will be down for a few days til i get everything setup.

Here is a suggestion for you. Get a SMS-1 to run your 25's and 2 PSW 505's through. I know your Pio has auto-calibration built in but if I remember correctly, it doesnt do that good a job with the low end (but I could be wrong having only read about it).

I just woke up so check this against the manual, but I think you would run the L/R pre-outs from your Pio to the SMS-1. You would run a set of IC's from the OUTPUT of the SMS-1 to your amp to your L/R speakers. That would give your L/R top section (not including the sub) JUST 80 hz and above.

For your 4 subs (2 in the 25's and the 2 PSW505's) you would use all 3 outputs to your subs. You would connect EACH sub of your LSi25's to the SMS-1 and use a Y cable to connect your 2 PSW505's.

Doing this method you could possibly get a very nice balance of everything.

**KEEP THIS IN MIND** I say this in theory, I have no experience with the SMS-1 (yet). Based on reading the manual I think that would work good, but others feel free to correct me if I am wrong...

mole'

EndersShadow wrote: »

Here is a suggestion for you. Get a SMS-1 to run your 25's and 2 PSW 505's through. I know your Pio has auto-calibration built in but if I remember correctly, it doesnt do that good a job with the low end (but I could be wrong having only read about it).

I just woke up so check this against the manual, but I think you would run the L/R pre-outs from your Pio to the SMS-1. You would run a set of IC's from the OUTPUT of the SMS-1 to your amp to your L/R speakers. That would give your L/R top section (not including the sub) JUST 80 hz and above.

For your 4 subs (2 in the 25's and the 2 PSW505's) you would use all 3 outputs to your subs. You would connect EACH sub of your LSi25's to the SMS-1 and use a Y cable to connect your 2 PSW505's.

Doing this method you could possibly get a very nice balance of everything.

**KEEP THIS IN MIND** I say this in theory, I have no experience with the SMS-1 (yet). Based on reading the manual I think that would work good, but others feel free to correct me if I am wrong...

THANKS for the info!!!!

looks like the SMS-1 go for about 340. ill look for a used one, if not pick a new one up next month with a pair of Gramma or subdude for the subs. also gonna pick up a FM antenna. since moving my AVR to a different wall/outlet. i get no signal at all now.

edoggrc51

I was gonna tell ya about one being for sale over on the Emotiva forum, but it looks like you're all over it. lol

I'll give ya a little demo on how the SMS-1 works tomorrow. Super easy to use bro!

mole'

edoggrc51 wrote: »

I was gonna tell ya about one being for sale over on the Emotiva forum, but it looks like you're all over it. lol

I'll give ya a little demo on how the SMS-1 works tomorrow. Super easy to use bro!

THanks man!!!

mole'

found this


Most Helpful Customer Reviews
9 of 9 people found the following review helpful
Good Product with One Glaring Limitation September 30, 2011
By KB
Amazon Verified PurchaseI am finalizing my home theater build, and my room has 4 sub woofers. As many HT/Audio enthusiasts know (ie you... why else would you be looking at a $500 bass correction), multiple subs help provide smoother bass response throughout multiple seats in an HT. Unfortunately, controlling 4 subs seems like a daunting task. You can imagine my excitement when I was referred to the SMS-1: automatic bass correction for up to 3 subs. Now having a connection for only 3 subs was a bit perplexing since most would suggest an even number of subs in a space. But having a simplified system with immediate feedback on any correction applied seemed PERFECT for my needs.

So when the packaged arrived, I quickly unpacked the system (very well packaged btw) and hooked everything up. Ran the sweeps and started correcting the bass. As a side note, the auto calibration is VERY aggressive... try the manual correction. Then I ran into the major limitation of the product: THE SMS-1 CAN ONLY APPLY ONE SET OF FILTERS (CORRECTION), AND IT APPLIES IT TO ALL THE SUBS. How can Velodyne claim to correct for multiple subs or why even put multiple sub connections when you can only implement one set of filters? Multiple subs will be spread out throughout the room, so each sub will have their own individual set of room issues to correct. This requires a separate filter for each sub. Imagine you have a peak at 50 Hz from sub woofer 1, and you correct by taking it down 3 db @ 50 Hz. If you only have one set of filters, you are applying that -3 db @ 50 Hz to ALL the other subs who, 99% of the time, are not having the same issues. This creates another issue for seat 1 since subs 2, 3, and 4 all have been lowered 3 db @ 50 Hz needlessly. When you move on to the 2nd sitting position, the unnecessary correction of -3 db @ 50 Hz applied to sub woofers 2, 3, and 4 create even more issues. If that second seat has another problem with Sub Woofer 3 at 70 Hz, then any correction for that issue will be again applied to subs 1, 2, 3, and 4 which creates problems for the second seat and the first seat. You get the idea. I have 7 seats in my little HT.

Why is having individual sets of filters to correct each sub better? Lets go back to the sub 1 example of the -3 db adjustment @ 50 Hz for seat 1. When you move to seat 2, the adjustment made to sub 1 MAY adversely affect seat 2. But then you can adjust either sub 2, 3, OR 4 to correct. But in reality, smaller changes to ONE sub will probably not negatively impact the rest of the seating since there are 3 other subs for support. On the other hand, applying the change to ALL subs will definitely impact the rest of the room. I know there will be compromises even with the ability to apply individual filters for each sub. But having only ONE filter for ALL subs makes calibrating a room for smooth bass response nearly impossible.

I expected more for a relatively expensive piece of equipment ($469). Velodyne obviously took the time to put together a well thought out piece of hardware. Why did they limit it by excluding a crucial aspect of correcting multiple subs by allowing only ONE set of filters? How can the company claim that this can correct for multiple sub woofers unless, I guess, the subs are stacked on top of each other (acting as one sub... sort of... this only provides more output, but not smoother bass response)? I can overlook some of the SMS-1's other limitations like 3rd octave smoothed freq response graph, aggressive auto calibration, and having only 3 (odd number) sub connections. But having the ability to apply one set of corrections for ALL the subs is a deal breaker.

Bottom line: I bought 4 subs so I can have smoother bass throughout the HT. Though the SMS-1 is relatively easy to use and has decent hardware (like the mic), it cannot effectively control multiple subs. Again, for the price, that is a HUGE let down. Needless to say, I am returning the SMS-1.

I am replacing the SMS-1 with an equalizer system I am putting together.

Mic: Behringer ECM8000 (same mic the SMS-1 uses)

Equalizers: Two (x2) Behringer DSP1124P (each can apply 2 sets of 12 filters for 2 subs. SMS-1 only has 8 filters TOTAL... also more accurate than the SMS-1).

Mic Preamp: Behringer XENYX 502

Software: Room Equalizer Wizard (REW) This is FREE!

This actually allows me to correct all 4 subs individually. All these (except the REW), can be found on Amazon. When I shopped around and priced all of it (including cables), the system came to over $150 LESS than the SMS-1. The downside is that the REW is not as straight forward as the SMS-1 software.

EndersShadow

I agree to some extent however it really is only a problem if the subs are not located close enough for the setting to matter. If your 25s and 505s are close to each other and on the same wall I would think you would be fine.... But that's just my opinion

I believe the person that posted it was running one sub in the middle of each wall of his HT so that issue he describes would matter much more to him than you.

mole'

EndersShadow wrote: »

I agree to some extent however it really is only a problem if the subs are not located close enough for the setting to matter. If your 25s and 505s are close to each other and on the same wall I would think you would be fine.... But that's just my opinion

i was thinking that too.

i have a 13' wall with my new entertainment center in the middle, then the LSi and then the sub on each side. so both side are an exact match.

the ETC is 7' wide and 8' tall. its a lil BIG and HEAVY!!!!!

edoggrc51

Not too mention that the learning curve for REW & the Berry is a little higher. lol

I have a couple of buddies that have tried both and they went back to the SMS-1, of course YMMV, so take it for what its worth. Personally I think in your case the SMS-1 would be plenty.

mole'

edoggrc51 wrote: »

Not too mention that the learning curve for REW & the Berry is a little higher. lol

I have a couple of buddies that have tried both and they went back to the SMS-1, of course YMMV, so take it for what its worth. Personally I think in your case the SMS-1 would be plenty.

order was placed for a new SMS-1 this weekend

thanks for all the info.

mole'

cbow8 wrote: »

I was wondering if anyone knew a little more about finding the dual conquests. Im in central cal. In markwt for ultra 13,dual captivator or possibly conquests.

you just missed out. Edogg just sold a pair of dual conquest subs in SoCal

edoggrc51

Yeah sold them a few months ago to a guy up in the bay area.