Ideas for future reciever

dave shepard

I have been on an upgrade binge lately and now am looking at a new reciever. I've called Sound Advice Custom Stereo in N.C. and asked about the B&K 507 & Denon 5803 a couple weeks ago and he said that he would not recomend the 507($1495.00 NIB) because of bad quality control where he has seen grey(weak) soildering on the inside. The Denon 5803 ($2895 NIB) he said was more expensive and still didn't really seem to be a better choice, recomended the 3803 ($695 NIB) if it was between the two reciever types. He did highly recomend the Sherbourn PT7000 7.1($1000) W/Sherbourn 7-2100 amp ($1495)7x200 8ohms/7x300 4ohms(amp wt. 138lbs!!!). Has anybody any thoughts on these I have no clue what is the better choice. I also thought the price on the 507 was to cheep so I called him again today and those prices are exactly what he quoted me before and the same report on the B&K also could somebody help me with this? Dose any of this seem correct? How do the prices sound? Any recomendations on 7.1 stuff?


Thanks

Dave

brettw22

Dave,

I agree with you on the pricing of the 507 (AMAZING!!!). I wasn't sure about that QC issues myself, but to get a few other opinions, I went into Showcase to talk to them to see if they had any quality control issues and they said that they were ok. They did indicate that there were issues in the past but they were past those, so I feel pretty comfortable with going with the 507. Regardless, you do have a 5 year warranty through B&K, so I'd say DEFINITELY go wtih that one.

I have a 307 that I really like, and the 507 has the blue lights that I like (completely trivial), and also the source control knob that the 307 doesn't. Other than that, they're identical in the amp section, with the major differences being software.

He said that the reason that they wont' have teh 507 until mid NOV was that they were updating the software again, so I really don't see how you can go wrong with that. The ONLY thing that I would do is to check wtih B&K directly about his company to make sure he's authorized. Otherwise, you won't have the warranty, but, from what I've heard, B&K is really good about fixing their products......

ToddB

I'd be very sceptical of that price on the 507. I just bought mine from Sound Advice (if your Sound Advice is a Tweeter Company they are authorized) and retail was $3,999 and I got the price down to $3,475. So far, other than my issues with the heat the thing generates, I'm very happy with it. I never auditioned the other gear you reference, so can't give an opinion on that.

Brett, that's interesting about the software upgrade. My salesman indicated there were no future upgrades pending. Of course, he may have said that just to make the sale. Something to keep an eye on.

mantis

I will speak for B&K......

There is nothing in it's price class that is BETTER.B&K makes high quality products that are upgradeble.Not many companies offer that.

Denon is also a fine company with tons of features,but of the caliber of B&K it is not.I will say that Denon in my opnion is the finest Japanese receiver maker.I perfer them over all others.

Sound quality and amp power goes to the B&K,upgradeablitiy ,B&K,features goes strong to the Denon...

It really matters what you want and how you want it to sound.


Dan

brettw22

Originally posted by ToddB
Brett, that's interesting about the software upgrade. My salesman indicated there were no future upgrades pending. Of course, he may have said that just to make the sale. Something to keep an eye on.

From what Greg at Sound Advice said (not of the Tweeter Chain), there were some issues that B&K was having with the space management features, so they were tweeking that out before they released the newer version. He said that he would be able to get his hands on some by mid-November.

I agree with you on the price being too good to be true, but I did call back a few times to verify, as Dave did, and the price is in fact accurate. The unit's are NOT refurbished or damaged, and are ordered directly from B&K with your choice of faceplate color. While I hope that I can actually get one in my hands for that kinda money, I don't wanna believe it until I have it in my house and set-up.

dave shepard

Brett did you call him too? I just can't get over the price. He does seem to know what he is talking about with home audio but that is comming from somebody who doesn't know much about tech. issues, so that is why I need some good advice from the tried and true people from this forum. If somebody would be willing to call him for me and try to comeup with some sort of feel for him so I don't make a mistake I would greatly appreaciate it (7044826456) his name is Gregg(owner). Sofar I am impressed with him but I was also impressed with the the RM7200 set the CC salesman recomended last year for my room size (19x25x8), as you see from my recient upgrades you see how much that was true. But that very well could not be the catagory he is in and so far I have not gotten any bad vibs with him.


Thanks for all and any help

Dave

brettw22

I have talked to Greg and Michael about the 507. My intention is to call them mid November to order a 507. He wasn't sure if he was going to be able to get a few speakers, but I'll ask when I talk to him later. Like I mentioned earlier, my only worr is that he's not an authorized seller and the 507 wouldn't have a warranty. That's why it'd be a good idea to call B&K and check on their company from that end.

polkatese

those are great prices! including the sherbourn. The 7/2100 is Sherbourn flagship amp, monoblock design with dual powercords, guaranteed to spin your electricmeter at least three times faster than the usual. The only explanation for the prices, if they are indeed autho., is they sell them at cost or slightly above. Check out B&K Reference 200.7 if you are considering sherbourn.

Dr. Spec

Dave:

With your speakers, you will probably be best off with the 3803. It offers the best bang for the buck of all the AVRs mentioned.

The THX Ultra II certified 5803 has so many features and doo-dads it will be overkill for the average enthusiast and you just don't need the extra power in a high passed application with the PB2+. The 3803 has plenty of power to drive your speaks in a high passed 7.1 application.

If you are buying for the future, and are seriously considering a speaker upgrade (read LSi) and want to stay with an AVR, then the 507 makes the most sense. If you are willing to spend $2900, though, you can by some very high quality separates and really makes the next set of speaks sing.

It all really depends on your intended application and what YOUR priorities are. If you want exceptional 7.1 performance with the latest and greatest DSP and DACs, and better than average music performance all in one package the 3803 is hard to beat for $700 (wow! great price).

If you want exceptional music performance and future proof amplification, with less of an emphasis on the HT end, then I'd go separates.

Doc

brettw22

Originally posted by polkatese
Check out B&K Reference 200.7 if you are considering sherbourn.

The only problem is that Gregg doesn't stock the seperates. As muych as I would be game to hop up to that, I can't complain in any way about my 307, so the 507 would be just perfect.

polkatese

brett,
so your 307 going to FM soon ? start taking names..congrats!

George Grand

That gentleman at Sound Advice is a right dude. He sold me a 2000 Orion Audio Blue Book for half what he advertised it for, including the shipping. Nice man.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

dave shepard

The main thing I am looking for is a home theater that will amaze and empress us and those who will be listening. It will be 90% movies 10% music but those values could change but the higher percent will always be movies, my wife and I really do enjoy watching movies together. Working fulltime and running a seasonal business after work with 3 emploies that is where we sit back and enjoy what time we do have together. We also have no real good way to demo a home theater to get ideas around here, there is one but it is a joke 10x16x9 room that always seems to be getting worked on and looks even less empressive. The money is not the real coincern (though less is always better).

Doc, what does the idea of amping each speaker do to the overall sound? I see that there are people who recomend seperates over a reciever is it more for music then movies? Wouldn't the extra power make the sound and experience that much better or will it kill my speakers?

I take it George Grand has done business with him and seems to be satisfied with him so I will be giving him a try also as soon as I can desifer all the info.

Thanks guys

Dave

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by dave shepard
The main thing I am looking for is a home theater that will amaze and empress us and those who will be listening. It will be 90% movies 10% music but those values could change but the higher percent will always be movies, my wife and I really do enjoy watching movies together.

Doc, what does the idea of amping each speaker do to the overall sound? I see that there are people who recomend seperates over a reciever is it more for music then movies? Wouldn't the extra power make the sound and experience that much better or will it kill my speakers?

If you emphasis is heavy on HT and you will be keeping your current speakers, my recommendation would be the 3803 as a slam dunk. It has a much better than average pre/pro section with a superior DSP and DACs, excellent sound quality with amazing detail, and the 7 channel amp section will not break a sweat powering your speakers to very loud and clean levels with an 80 Hz high pass. And Dan (Mantis) can attest the 3803 and the RTi series mate extremely well sonically.

That does not mean the 3803 is without peer. If you were interested in an overall upgrade with different speakers and a much heavier emphasis on music and sound quality, with the capability to drive low/reactive impedance speakers, I'd go separates.

For your intended application and current speakers, there is absolutely no reason to use an external amp. I would advise an external 7 channel amp with the 3803 if you were going to power LSi, which the 3803 will not handle well. I think Frank Z has an Outlaw external 7 channel powering his LSi with an AVR handling the pre/pro duties.

An amp really should not add any coloration of its own to the sound. The really high end guys claim different amps have different sound and maybe there is something to that in a very high end rig, but I doubt you would notice the difference between an identically powered Adcom and an Outlaw with your current level of equipment. I think the pre/pro has more affect on SQ than the amp itself.

I think that those who report a huge gain in SQ from adding an external amp to an AVR were probably already overloading the AVR amp and driving it into clipping or distortion or running it out of current capacity, etc.

Anyway, I think you would be thrilled with the 3803 with your speaks in a primarily HT application and it does damn well for music too - all especially considering you've got a PB2+ on the way to handle all bass duties.

George Grand

If two power amps, that were competently designed and executed are of the same output capability, and are not being driven to clipping, and one sounds decidedly different than the other, than one of the amps is broke.

I have no experience buying equipment from Sound Advice Dave. I have zero experience with the Denon receivers, or ANY home theater receivers for that matter (not a receiver kind of guy here). There is a brand new Onkyo 6 channel TX-SR 700 HT receiver in my 13 year old daughters bedroom, but I don't go dicking around with it, cause that would mean going in her bedroom, and I'm convinced there are Japanese soldiers in there that do not know that World War II has ended. I just know that a couple of years ago, he gave me a super deal on that Orion Blue Book. It is, in MY OPINION, an excellent reference tool for someone who is constantly buying and selling audio equipment (that would be me).

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

dave shepard

I appoligize George I miss took your post as a piece of equipment. With all the info I have gathered form this I will be leaning towards the 3803 as the reciever of choice. There are no plans to change my current speakers because I believe I have yet to see there full potencial with my current reciever and 7.1 seemes like more fun anyhow. I can't thank you guys enough for all your help, as I still have alot to learn especialy the tech. spec. side of things and what all they mean.


Thank you guys

Dave

George Grand

There is no shortage of good men on this forum that will direct you to a competent receiver purchase. I am constantly amazed at the amount of info that Dr. Spec has at his fingertips. Perhaps he is not human.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grand's)

bigsexy1

I concur with the Denon 3803. It has probably the best pre/pro section, especially for movies, of anything even close to it's price class. It will also mate very well with Polk RTi speakers. I used to consider Denon's amps to be a notch below HK's, Rotel's, NAD's, and B&K's, but after the 3802 I had drove a pair of RTi150s set to large one day for like 10 or 12 hours straight nonstop with the master volume set to 00, now I'm starting to realize that maybe I had probably been severly underrating Denon's amps. They still probably aren't quite the equal of the 4 brands I named before in this post, but they are very close to the point of being the next thing to them. Plus, Denon is probably more reliable than those others also.
Best of all, with the deal 6th Ave (an authorized dealer for warrenty purposes nonetheless) has right now with the 3802 substitution where you can get one shipped for less than $700, it's a no brainer. Just get one and be done with it!