cd transport/dac vs computer/dac

soundfreak1

After much research its come down to one of these choices. A decent transport (preowned for dollar reasons,something in the 4 to 500. Range into a good dac in the same price range )or converting my computer to a server( assuming doing the. compute correctly ie. Very good harddrive, sound card,riping software ect. Than into the dac and into my pre. Can i ecpect the server option to be equal, sup perior or inferrior to the transport option, assuming all other perramaters equal. Im talking strictly reguarding pure sound quality.

thsmith

To many variables but if the PC is setup right and you have a decent enough DAC you should be able to sound better than a $500 CDP but will most likely cost more than the CDP. Inthe end it is come down to setup and cost.

For reference my setup is a refurb current gen Mac Mini $525, 8g ram $40, DAC 2 $1500, Amarra $200, $100 USB cable and $150 external FW HDD, oh yeah external Optical drive is $35. I would think a $2500 CDP would sound just as good if I had to guess.

I know I like using the Ipad for the interface and convience and sounds great, IMO.

heiney9

I know you sent me a PM soundfreak1, just haven't had time to address it.

If you are going the music server route, you don't need a sound card. Get a Squeezebox Touch and a nice dac. It's a much better, easier and more flexible alternative than running it straight out of the computer via a wired (Coax, Toslink or USB) connection. That would be my recommendation over a transport and dac. The nice thing about going this route is you can upgrade as $$$ becomes available. You could just start with the SQB Touch as it has decent dac's or you can purchase both and then eventually add a liner power supply if you want to tweak it a bit.

You need a newer computer (P/C preferrably) a wireless router and about 500G-1TB of storage space along with a ripping program (dB Poweramp) and some sort of back-up software. I use Acronis. Everyone should back-up so you should already have something in place, if not, you need it anyway.

H9

P.s. While thsmith's set-up above is formidable, you don't have to go that route and spend that kind of money to get great sound. IMO, his rig is over complicated for someone like you, who is just learning about this and moving into something like a music server. A copmputer, a Squeezebox and preferrably a dac and some nice cables are all you need as hardware to get going.

heiney9

Are you a MAC or PC guy?

H9

soundfreak1

the computer tower I am starting off with should be more than proficient has it was a custom build not a store bought you extremely high end motherboard and all other peripherals all that I feel is needed for the computer would be the right hard drive the right sound card the right software ect.so thats out of the equasion. Just the basic question is can a server again done correctly out perform a equally priced cdp as the dac used would be the same.

heiney9

Just the basic question is can a server again done correctly out perform a equally priced cdp as the dac used would be the same.

Yes it can.


How are you envisioning hooking this up? You keep saying soundcard which means either coax or toslink, both are inferior to USB and all 3 are inferior compared to wireless streaming with the Squeezebox Touch. Using a soundcard you'd need the computer very close in proximity to the audio rig. Is this computer for a server "only" or will it be used also for computing?

H9

soundfreak1

Maybe im missing something reguarding the squeezebox. I currently have a bluetooth dac set up to go directly in to my pre. The sound quality is remarkable and actually what im using as a benchmark and trying to equal. Therfore i see the sbt as redundant. As far streaming goes. The computer is allready set up for wireless accsess keyboard and mouse and moniton cac all be used from my main listening possition so the interfaze features i feel i can achive either way without it.my point is i think i can do everything the sbt can do with what i have and just upgrade the few pieces in my computer.i can pull up files and organise them equally and same with the streaming. The dac is the wild card here.unless im missing something, which is entirely possible. Lol

heiney9

Well see, there you go. You didn't give any of that info until now, so what happens is a bunch of people assume different things and it takes awhile and quite a few posts to get to the crux of the matter.

I don't know anything about bluetooth interphases so I can't help you there. If you are using bluetooth why do you need a soundcard? What program are you using to play your files? Does the bluetooth bypass all the Windows mixer crap or is that still in the loop? If so, that's the major stumbling block to using a computer while not using the USB, ethernet or wireless router. I am not going to assume bluetooth works like a wireless router.

Sounds like you are stuck with that dac or is it the case where the bluetooth thingy can be used with any dac? Lot's of unasnwered questions here.

H9

falconcry72

A properly implemented computer-based solution will sound every bit as good as a high-end cd transport. In either case, the DAC will be the biggest factor in sound quality. Save your money by getting a SQB instead of a $500 CDP, and put that extra money into the DAC. You won't be sorry.

I'd like to add that, in my experience, a properly implemented USP > SPDIF converter can sound every bit as good as a SQB. The main difference is interface. With a USB converter your interface is your computer; with a SQB your interface is either the SQB itself or a smartphone. They both have their ups and downs; it's a personal decision. Both are much better for me than CD's.

falconcry72

heiney9 wrote: »

...If you are using bluetooth why do you need a soundcard?

I was wondering the same thing.

michael1947

Yikes!!!

heiney9

The dac is important, but how things are hooked up and how the files are extracted is equally important.

I have found taking USB and converting to SPDIF is unecessary and creates one more "loop" where it could possibly degrade. If you do the USB connection correctly to being with then it's a non-issue. But I do understand having to do the conversion if you are using a dac that doesn't have a USB input or an inferior USB input.

I still am not understanding how the bluetooth is implemented and what program he is using to play back his files. These are key area's that can heavily compromise the final output because of computer manipulation by Windows and inferior output interphases of the playback software.

H9

falconcry72

heiney9 wrote: »

The dac is important, but how things are hooked up and how the files are extracted is equally important.

When I said the DAC was more important, I meant given that the computer solution is properly implemented, the difference in DACs will make a bigger difference in sound than the difference between a SQB, a USB converter, or a CD transport. Properly implemented = accurately-ripped lossless files, bit-perfect playback, and asynchronous USB or wireless output.

I have found taking USB and converting to SPDIF is unecessary and creates one more "loop" where it could possibly degrade.

My DI easily sounds as good as my dad's SQB; in fact, he thinks it sounds better.

These are key area's that can heavily compromise the final output because of computer manipulation by Windows and inferior output interphases of the playback software.

+1000

heiney9

falconcry72 wrote: »

When I said the DAC was more important, I meant given that the computer solution is properly implemented, the difference in DACs will make a bigger difference in sound than the difference between a SQB, a USB converter, or a CD transport. Properly implemented = accurately-ripped lossless files, bit-perfect playback, and asynchronous USB or wireless output.



My DI easily sounds as good as my dad's SQB; in fact, he thinks it sounds better.



+1000

Just had to clarify to drive home to others that are new to the computer game, that implementation is key. I know you know that.

Lots of variables when discussing USB and SPDIF interphases, all kinds of different chipsets implemented differently so it's never apples to apples. Just look at the difference with Audio GD products atleast 3, if not more, SPDIF chipsets used. So even among their own products you will get a different final sound.

H9

soundfreak1

Hi h9. as far as the computer it will be a decaded server an not used for anything else and will sit right next to my audio rack
as. the sound card goes that was some of the questions I had for you I am wide open on choices regarding cabling and wire type as the desision on the particular pieces is yet to be settled, if i go the server direction tjats wide open and i guess i just need to deside on which technolgy to use. I can always add the sbt at a later date but the computer up date has to be done first reguardless. As even to use the sbt the computer has to be converted. At lease that is my logic stream. if I setup the computer correctly all future upgrades ie dac sbt ect. Are still open to me. I'm looking at the sound card only in offering an output to the dac or squeeze box or any other device.the choices of the individgual card, harddrive ect would need to be worked out and thats where my knowledge is veery week.i have a decent grasp on analog dont know squat about digital. I was out of the audio bussiness befor digital was invented.even ( witj the exception ) of my dvd my ht systen is vertuly analog,the processor is a vintage lexicon dc1ac3 with all mono amps, and never used for music. I hope this puts my ?'s in better perspective. Or am i all fubar'ed?

thsmith

What H9 is describing is an easy approach that yields good results with flexibility down the road. If your PC is already integrated into you audio system then the SB may not be for you but if your PC is in another part of the house then it might be.

heiney9

With the SQB you don't need a soundcard. You need to give a lot more info on this bluetooth streaming you are doing (which you don't need a soundcard for) and you need to answer the question I asked about what program you are using for playback.

I don't know what you mean by "conversion" in the future if you decide to use a SQB.

Are you looking to ditch everything you have now and start over? Music files for the music server shouldn't ever need to change no matter what way you decide to implement your gear. FLAC is FLAC no matter if you stream, use USB or bluetooth. The files are exactly the same for any scenario.

H9

heiney9

I will add that you want to avoid using a soundcard for digital output since there are better ways than that.

H9

Fongolio

heiney9 wrote: »

You keep saying soundcard which means either coax or toslink, both are inferior to USB and all 3 are inferior compared to wireless streaming with the Squeezebox Touch. H9

I totally disagree with that statement based on the fact that my current setup sends 192/24 via coax to my Cambridge DACmagic Plus. The Squeezebox Touch can only accept 96/24 signals and pass the same if a dac is used as well. My setup is sending 192/24 from J Rivier Media Player to my Azen Meridian sound card, out to coax to my DACmagic Plus bit perfect. How is this inferior to USB? As far as I know the new DACmagic Plus is one of the only dac's on the market that can even accept USB 192/24, so unless there is a newer technology out there or the Squeezbox touch has been updated my setup is sending higher resolution to my audio rig. Again, how is that inferior?

Fongolio

heiney9 wrote: »

I will add that you want to avoid using a soundcard for digital output since there are better ways than that.

H9

Please explain.

soundfreak1

the computer is not even in the system yet as it would have to be set up. as a server. the bluetooth dacI am using is a stand alone system coming out of the bluetooth dac right into input in my dared. again the computer has not been done yet that is the question I have what I need to do to the computer to make it correct as a fully dedicated server I can add virtually anything to add anything i need to . I thought a sound card would be necessary. to output from the computer to the dac. I'm thinking there has to be some way of playing the music files from the hard drive and sending that information to the dac I was assuming a sound card would be required for that purpose maybe I'm mistaken.

heiney9

It's not about always about the highest resolution. I shouldn't have made the statement an absolute. There are some fine soundcards out there, but they cost a lot of money compartively. Your situation is unique in that you want higher resolution. I'm not going to go into this yet again as it's been covered before about why an ordinary soundcard (and even some more expensive ones) is inferior to USB or streaming via a wireless router.

I retract my absolute statement and will say most soundcards are inferior to USB or wireless streaming, not all, but be prepared to pay some $$$ and have some knowledge on how to configure the output so you get a bit for bit perfect stream.

I was also commenting more about it being inferior because this thread and the OP are very new to this and knows just about nothing about it so for him and others that don't have the knowledge and experience with computer audio output, the USB or wireless streaming is superior path for their implementation and skill level.

I hope that clarifies my POV in this thread on that statement.

H9

heiney9

soundfreak1 wrote: »

the computer is not even in the system yet as it would have to be set up. as a server. the bluetooth dacI am using is a stand alone system coming out of the bluetooth dac right into input in my dared. again the computer has not been done yet that is the question I have what I need to do to the computer to make it correct as a fully dedicated server I can add virtually anything to add anything i need to . I thought a sound card would be necessary. to output from the computer to the dac. I'm thinking there has to be some way of playing the music files from the hard drive and sending that information to the dac I was assuming a sound card would be required for that purpose maybe I'm mistaken.

Yep, not understanding at all so let's see if I can try and be more direct.

You have a bluetooth dac (whatever that is) where is the signal coming from? I assumed since you mentioned the computer and bluetooth dac in the same sentence the signal was coming from the computer? My bad for assuming that.

Again I ask, what program are you using your bluetooth dac through your dared to play your music? Before I assumed it was something on the computer, but apparently the mouse and wireless keyboard and screen aren't being used as you led me to believe in your post.

Is the computer even hooked up and playing music as I assumed? Is the bluetooth dac functioning? Where does the bluetooth dac get it's signal from? What device sends the music to the bluetooth dac to play through the dared?

All this time I assumed, based on what you wrote, it was coming from the computer? I guess not ........lol

heiney9

Do you have a link to the bluetooth dac?

Please, please, please............give some info on the dac. How many and what kind of inputs does it have? Are you keeping this dac to use with the music server or are you wanting something different.

As far as the computer goes as I already stated, you need about 500G-1TB storage, ripping program like dB Poweramp, and I would highly suggest a way to back things up which should be done on any computer.

If you aren't using something like the SQB, then you need a way to A) control the music display what's playing at the very least and it would be nice to show cover art. This would involve a program for example like Media Monkey or other type of music player.

The problem is you are asking a very general question and there are literally several dozens programs/players to run a music server and literally a hundred ways to configure it.

H9

Fongolio

The new DACmagic Plus is a bluetooth capable DAC. You need an accesory that allows it to accept signals from hand held devices such as Smartphones and IPhones. Perhaps something similar is what the OP is referring to.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=872

heiney9

Fongolio wrote: »

The new DACmagic Plus is a bluetooth capable DAC. You need an accesory that allows it to accept signals from hand held devices such as Smartphones and IPhones. Perhaps something similar is what the OP is referring to.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=872

That's what I'm trying to get at, what is it? and how is it being used currently? I sort of assumed that after he stated the computer wasn't in use, but I am no longer going to assume anything in this thread.

H9

soundfreak1

To h9 sorry for all the confusion I do not express myself in writing as well as I do with speech hence the pm I sent you. I will try to break it down simply as I can: I have a wonderful to channel system that I am most pleased with I am however very limited 2 streaming music through my handheld smartphone. this is done to a blue tooth dac which takes the digital data from the internet through bluetooth technology from my phone convert it to analog rca output directly into my pre amp and it sounds wonderful. my next thought was to add a cdp and dac or convert my computer to a server make that a fully dedicated server what funds that would be expended on cdp and squeeze box would go to the computer modifications should be more than enougj toover that and since I would need a dac in either case that purchase would simply stand alone. If this avenue is better than the cdp route then the question becomes what do I need to do to the computer I e what sound card if needed what hard drive what software excetera excetera excetera.

heiney9

Ok, now we are getting somewhere.

If you think the bluetooth streaming sounds wonderful from a phone, then you "ain't heard nothing yet"

So the bluetooth dac is nothing more than a bluetooth receiver? It can't accept other inputs? Was it a fairly inexpensive piece of equipment? My other thought was to use that dac as a starting point if it accepted other inputs and was also a nicer piece of gear like the Cambridge fongolio mentioned.

Know I know where the starting point is for you. All I can do is relay what I've done for my specfic needs. There are a lot of ways to do this, one of which is to have the computer in the room right next to your rig. For me, that was the least favorite option. Didn't want it in the room and didn;t want the bulk of a keyboard, mouse, and having to turn the TV screen on all the time. For me that was a personal choice and why I went with the SQB. Also because I listen to music from the actual computer in my office rig via a USB dac from the USB output on the computer. If it was out in the other room then I wouldn't be able to do that.

H9

heiney9

To me and my way of thinking, your level of knowledge and the level of sound you are looking to get. I'd buy the Squeezebox Touch and go that route. Don't even worry about a dac, you can add one later if you choose. If you already love the streaming of compressed music via bluetooth from a smartphone, the dac's in the SQB are more than up to the task.

It's a simple solution that uses up minimal space and you can keep the computer out there or in another room. With the SQB you will need to rip your music to the computer so you will need a screen, keyboard and mouse for that part of it. But once your music is ripped all the control goes through the SQB. Your files and the SQB program stay on the computer, which should be in another room.

H9

heiney9

There is no "converting" your computer to a music server with the Squeezebox. You install the SQB program that runs the SQB and you designate an area where you store your music. That's it, you can still use it as a computer just like always. The only thing is if you want to listen to music from the computer via the SQB you have to have the computer on. You don't even need to have the computer on if you are streaming music over the internet, as that can be done from your wireless router.

H9

soundfreak1

yes the bluetooth dac is limited to just 1 imput. what is the computer is setup I can hookup internet direct in through routers direct wire anyway I want even could tether my phone however my future intention would be internet direct in from like say road runner. that would seem to allow me to download all my music say grooveshark or pandora as well as upload all my cds play them as well without having to go to the internet all the time. as far as the bluetooth dac goes it was dirt cheap works incredible sounds better than any cd player or dvd player I've ever owned with the caveat that my dvd and cd players are crap having said that I still know what sounds good and this damn thing sounds really good. is building the server correctly. and I do emphasize correctly I should be able to have my cake and eat it too are you great streaming sound and full access to my cd's and downloaded music at potentially higher quality. it simply down to what specific devices do I need in the computer and picking out a outboard dac. I think therefore I am I think.