Sound Quality Difference Between iPod & Computer?

Wiltzor

Hi all,

I was just wondering if there would be a discernible difference in sound quality from my iPod connected directly to my receiver via USB vs. music playing on iTunes on my comp running to my receiver via HDMI.

Thanks!

BlueFox

Just guessing. Yes. Is the USB asynchronous? Probably will be a jitter difference between the two methods. I assume you mean the same receiver so the DAC is the same. However, unless you have the files on the iPod stored in a lossless format, the sound quality aspect is probably moot.

markmarc

Another thing to consider is that computers can create quite a bit of electronic noise. The battery operation is infinitely quieter. Now, if you plan on bringing a DAC into the system to draw out the digital signal, then a whole new conservation begins.

zingo

The sound quality of an iPod is decent with lossless files, but loss when I compared it to a CD player. The iPod sounded more flat and veiled. I would assume PC would sound better if only because you'll be using the DAC in the receiver via HDMI instead of the DAC in the iPod over 1/8" dubbing cable.

Since they use difference inputs, I would actually hook both up, play the same song, and flip back and forth on the inputs and hear for yourself. Whatever sounds better to you is the winner!

nwohlford

It depends on whether the receiver can get a digital signal over usb from the iPod. If the receiver gets an analog signal over usb from the iPod, then the computer should be a better option. If it is a digital signal, I am guessing there will not be much of a difference(if any). In reality, the sound could depend on a lot of little factors, so it worth listening to both and making up your own mind.

heiney9

Wiltzor wrote: »

Hi all,

I was just wondering if there would be a discernible difference in sound quality from my iPod connected directly to my receiver via USB vs. music playing on iTunes on my comp running to my receiver via HDMI.

Thanks!

No

H9

mantis

I have noticed differences between Apple Tv with internal hard drive , iPod connected VIA USB digital transfer , The new Apple TV streaming , the actual CD and a computer connected directly. Everything was recorded in Lossless from a CD rip. The actual Cd was then compared to all forms of Rips.

The best iPod experience I have had was with a Wadia iPod dock , Cambridge Audio DAC Magic , audioquest cables. This sounded fantastic and as good as the cd.

reeltrouble1

A machine designed to just play music is the best way to go. Your I-pod does not contain high quality parts and your computer is made to compute, not play music. You should look for a nice player for your music.

RT1

Wiltzor

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

A machine designed to just play music is the best way to go. Your I-pod does not contain high quality parts and your computer is made to compute, not play music. You should look for a nice player for your music.

RT1

Are we talking CD player or something else? All my music is on iTunes. Sorry, I'm very new to all this, but just built a little 2.1 and want to get the best out of it!

I have a Pioneer VSX-921-K receiver and it came with an iPod USB cable, but the sound quality from my computer seems better.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-921-K

reeltrouble1

If you say your computer sounds better then it does and not really a surprise as between the two the computer should be a little better. If you used i-tunes then you pretty much have compressed mp3 files, the fact is the better the source you use with mp3 the worse it sounds.

You will need to do some research, if you want to stay with a computer then look into tube buffers, You use them between the source and the receiver to help improve sound quality. If you want to stay with your i-pod then the Wadia tube station for it would be worthwhile.

In the end the absolute best recordings are SACD and DVD-Audio, known as high resolution formats you need SACD/CD player or what is known as a universal player to really take advantage of these formats. You have to decide if you want the convenience of hard-drives for storage or high resolution style player, perhaps an OppO to begin with.

There are some music style servers such as squeezebox which can store cd quality in large amounts for convenience and give you at least cd quality, this is much better than compressed mp3. You should start downloading in what is known as lossless formatting, wav. files as an example.

Good luck there is alot information on this around the site and the web. Trust your own ears as to what sounds best for your rig and budget.

RT1

BlueFox

mantis wrote: »

The best iPod experience I have had was with a Wadia iPod dock , Cambridge Audio DAC Magic , audioquest cables. This sounded fantastic and as good as the cd.

I will second and third that statement. Plus in addition to the sound, you now have access to 1000s of songs, can create playlists, and do other great things.

If you are using lossless files on the iPod then it is the same file as on the CD. While everything matters, the DAC is main component for the sound with both a CDP, and a music server.

reeltrouble1

there is no comparason between an i-pod and a cd player and there ability to extract the information recorded. usb is an inferior method of a connection. Everything matters, dont just focus on one thing such as a dac, sure you need a good one, but you need quality electronics throughout the chain. When your done you have a system of interdependant parts with each holding its place in the chain.

The reason tube buffers work is they cover up poor information from upstream. No electronic part can ever really improve the signal, the best to hope for is it is left untouched, which rarely happens no matter the cost of the gear, but gear that gets close or at least takes this into consideration is the best direction to take for hi-fi.

RT1

mantis

You guys realize dude has a 921k pioneer right?

I suggest you record all your music in Lossless. Go into the recording setting and use Apple Lossless decoder. I use it myself and it sounds damn good. Your receiver can only sound so good , placement of speakers , calibration etc will yield better quality music reproduction.
I'm curious what speakers and sub your running? What speaker sub cables your using? How' the placement of the speakers to the seating?
What iPod do you have? The USB interface from Pioneer is very good. If you had a higher end model like a Pioneer Elite , you would greatly notice a huge difference in overall sound quality using the iPod connection. But lets work with what you purchased first and then lets talk about where you can improve your sound quality. 256k and up will give you good to great sound quality , anything under that will sound like crap.

tonyb

Dan, I might be mistaken, but I believe the USB inputs are only doing MP3, not lossless, on the receivers. Maybe different on the higher end ones. My elite 21 won't do it by USB. You have to go toslink or digital coax.

mantis

tonyb wrote: »

Dan, I might be mistaken, but I believe the USB inputs are only doing MP3, not lossless, on the receivers. Maybe different on the higher end ones. My elite 21 won't do it by USB. You have to go toslink or digital coax.

Your elite 21 should play ALL files that live on a iPod. It's designed for that exact purpose. You use the Apple iPod cable that comes with it. I have done many 21's in my day when they where out , they where our hot seller as it is a fantastic receiver for the money and can power a wide range of good quality speakers well. I never had any issues with iPods and the Pioneer Elite connections. One thing you have to do is have your firmware on your iPod up to date. Not to mention shuffles and original iPods don't work with the connection but the Pioneer on screen will tell you so.

BlueFox

tonyb wrote: »

Dan, I might be mistaken, but I believe the USB inputs are only doing MP3, not lossless, on the receivers. Maybe different on the higher end ones. My elite 21 won't do it by USB. You have to go toslink or digital coax.

USB is just an interface for passing data between two points. MP3 or lossless has nothing to do with it. I am guessing that the USB passes analog since Wadia claims they were the first to get a digital output from the iPod. If USB does analog then the iPod's $2.00 DAC is the weak link. Assuming the files are stored as lossless on the iPod.

unc2701

BlueFox wrote: »

USB is just an interface for passing data between two points. MP3 or lossless has nothing to do with it. I am guessing that the USB passes analog since Wadia claims they were the first to get a digital output from the iPod. If USB does analog then the iPod's $2.00 DAC is the weak link. Assuming the files are stored as lossless on the iPod.

USB doesn't do analog.

Wadia was the first to extract the stream and dump it out via coax/optical, but there were some receivers that were able to get the digital stream prior to that- you just couldn't then get it to output to something else as a digital stream. Hell, BMW's were doing it before wadia, IIRC.

Now whether it can get the lossless stream is another debate, (some can some can't), but with iPods, if it plays, and the file is lossless, then he's getting a lossless stream out. The newer apple TV's are a different story since they do some compression to move things over the network. With his iPod and lossless he'd also need to be sure that the checkbox to downsample lossless when transferring was not checked.

So, there's some bad info in the thread, but here's what you need to know..
The debate about computer digital (HDMI, coax, optical, USB) vs ipod USB (or some other digital directly from the iPod) comes down to:
1)Noise emitted from the computer (can be minimized with an optical connection) and note that anytime you have a computer connected to your stereo you're going to get some noise via grounding, powerline, you name it (see the thread about mouse click wheel noise).
2)"Jitter" via the two methods- whether via synchronous/asynch USB or the PCM-type stream.
3)Logistics: Some gear might not play your lossless files straight off the iPod

unc2701

Oh, one clarification: If the receiver has a dock that you MUST use and doesn't have a straight up USB input, it's possible that might be analog... there were a few that did that. USB controlled playing, pausing, song choice, etc, on the iPod, but the audio stream went out via analog.

However, I haven't seen one of those in awhile.

reeltrouble1

or get a player designed to play music........well, I suppose I should say, designed to play music well.

RT1

unc2701

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

or get a player designed to play music........well, I suppose I should say, designed to play music well.

RT1

Eh. Good point, but Wadia's got a great idea going here. CD players are full of moving parts, motors, power supplies and have to read the information off a dirty disc with a laser. An iPod is battery powered, zero moving parts, much lower EMI and will have effectively zero read errors. When you're talking about handing off to an outboard DAC, nearly every advantage goes to the iPod, once someone works out the kinks. The first Wadia dock had some jitter issues, but the new one seems to have sorted those out.

Regardless, that's really not the point of the thread.

tonyb

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

or get a player designed to play music........well, I suppose I should say, designed to play music well.

RT1

Don't be so absurd Ted. :cheesygrin:

Trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip is the name of the game these days.

reeltrouble1

sure it is, he wants good sound and there is no way an i-pod is going to outperform a cd player, yes, there are differences in players, but if this group is going to start extolling an i-pod over a cd player the road is paved to lo-fi, might as well just turn on the radio. So between the two I agree and said the computer with at least an optical connection, but better..a cd player or even better a SACD player. If your doing a two channel rig why not build one that can play the best high resolution recordings available...no i-pod can. A decent SACD player can be had at reasonable cost and should be part of the rig, if someone likes convenience of a jukebox its fine, the pre has more than one input to utilize. Sorry, I have thousands of titles available to me as well. The music is layed out on the album in a specific order as the artist intended for it to be heard, nothing new, but you have to understand the basics well first and the OP said he is completely new to things.

RT1

heiney9

If you are simply talking about the difference between an iPod and a computer in and of themselves, I will always choose the computer. Whether you use the USB (which is better than coax or optical) or a wireless streaming device like the Squeezebox or Sonos.

H9

BlueFox

An iPod is a computer. It has an operating system, and it writes and reads files to a hard drive. I suppose now somebody is going to say that since an iPod does not support Microsoft Word it cannot read digital music files on it's hard drive. :rolleyes:

As mentioned above, by unc2701 in post 20, the iPod as a music source is the equal of, or even better, than many CD players. The DAC being the major component in determining the sound quality for both the CD player, and the iPod/Wadia 171 combo.

Of course, the iPod does have some disadvantages. It will not play SACD files, so an SACD player is needed. Plus you need the SACD player to audition CDs to determine if they are good enough to be put onto the iPod. It's other disadvantage is that it will not play high-res files, but it is more than capable of handling CD quality files.

heiney9

BlueFox wrote: »

Of course, the iPod does have some disadvantages. It will not play SACD files, so an SACD player is needed. Plus you need the SACD player to audition CDs to determine if they are good enough to be put onto the iPod. It's other disadvantage is that it will not play high-res files, but it is more than capable of handling CD quality files.

FTR, it has more disadvantges than the above. But those have been beaten to death in umpteen threads here before so really no need to go over it again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

The OP asked a simple, general question and I believe he has gotten quite a few different OPINIONS, so it's time to move on, I know I am. It's up to him to decide which method to persue further.

H9

Wiltzor

Lots of great information here! Above all else it has brought me to realize that I have a lot more homework to do.

mantis wrote: »

You guys realize dude has a 921k pioneer right?

I suggest you record all your music in Lossless. Go into the recording setting and use Apple Lossless decoder. I use it myself and it sounds damn good. Your receiver can only sound so good , placement of speakers , calibration etc will yield better quality music reproduction.
I'm curious what speakers and sub your running? What speaker sub cables your using? How' the placement of the speakers to the seating?
What iPod do you have? The USB interface from Pioneer is very good. If you had a higher end model like a Pioneer Elite , you would greatly notice a huge difference in overall sound quality using the iPod connection. But lets work with what you purchased first and then lets talk about where you can improve your sound quality. 256k and up will give you good to great sound quality , anything under that will sound like crap.

To answer you question about gear:

Receiver: Pioneer VSX-921-K 7.1 Receiver (110wpc)
Front Speakers: Polk RTi6
Sub: Polk PSW125
iPod: 160gb Sixth Gen Classic

I'm running RocketFish 16g wire to the fronts and a Dynex subwoofer cable to the sub.

As for speaker placement:

Comments and criticism about my gear and setup/placement is welcome! Like I said, I'm very new and am just trying to make a budget rig sound as good as it can.

unc2701

The speakers could probably stand to be wider apart and toed in a bit. The TV is too high, but good luck changing that. The best sub location is highly unpredictable, but you're probably somewhat stuck with what you've got. For that, just have a buddy move it around within your constraints and see what sounds best. Plan b is to put it in your listening spot, then crawl around on the floor and where ever it sounds best, move it to there, but that's a pain and doesn't really test how it interfaces with your speakers (it does test where your standing wave nodes are).

WRT iPod vs computer, if there is a huge, immediate, night/day difference to your ears, then you're probably NOT doing an all-things-equal test. Make sure that the same quality is going onto your iPod as you have stored on the computer and that the settings for the two inputs (HDMI, USB) are identical. If you even everything out and the computer still sounds better, then your question is answered: Go with the computer.

9 times out of ten that I've had an immediate reaction of "HUGE DIFFERENCE" between two pretty close methods, it turns out to be some different settings, the source material is different, etc. As you can tell from the nit-picking above the differences are a little more subtle and come on slow, so it's always good to check the obvious things before moving on to the smaller refinements.

reeltrouble1

Wiltzor think of this way.

If a **** man and straight man complete sexual intercourse with their chosen partner they each reached an ejaculative bliss, yet in a way the other could never achieve.

Your job is to build your own unique glory hole.

Have fun, hang out and get to know the players.

RT1

Wiltzor

reeltrouble1 wrote: »

Wiltzor think of this way.

If a **** man and straight man complete sexual intercourse with their chosen partner they each reached an ejaculative bliss, yet in a way the other could never achieve.

Your job is to build your own unique glory hole.

Have fun, hang out and get to know the players.

RT1

Welp, I guess I'll take off my jacket and stay a while..

reeltrouble1

atta boy!!!

I would recommend you pull your speakers forward a bit, make sure the front of each speaker extends beyond the fireplace, then play with your subs crossover a bit to find the most seemless sound. I would start around 20-25 hz above your speakers -3db dropoff and adjust from their till it sounds best to you.

RT1