LSi Series Home Theater Project

One Dolla Wells

Just purchased my first home and we are going to build a home theater. Here's the deal I get the Media Room and she gets the rest of the house. I am new to this and want to get it right the first time. My thought is to turn an existing bedroom/office into the Home Theater. Would like to sound proof the room and get the best sound, could use some advice on the best results for the least expense.

Dimensions of the room: 9'9"x13'x7'

This is a corner room in the basement.
One Door that I plan to move to inward facing 13' wall
One Small Window on 9'9" wall
Plan is to tier seating from 9'9" wall with window

Samsung 64inch Plasma pn54d8000
Onkyo tx-nr809 (4ohm rated w/ 135 watts @ 8ohm)
LSi9 Ebony, LSic, LSiFX, DSWpro66wi
Raxxess Economy Speaker Stand 36" tall 12" top plate
12 awg CM rated speaker wire SEWELL
SEWELL Silverback Banana Plugs
SEWELL Premium HDMI cables
PS3 fatty, Xbox 360, Wii, CPU
Still need an equipment rack and maybe a dedicated Blu-ray.

I plan on wall mounting the Plasma, LSiFX, and LSiC. Running all the cabling in-wall.

Will be Bi-amping the LSi9 Left and Right since they are so power hungry.

Should I position the LSiFX behind the listener or to the sides and why?

What is the most cost effective way to effectively sound proof this room?

My thoughts are to use Rockwool insulation with the middle of the line Quietrock (60/sheet), or a two layers 5/8 basement drywall Green Glue Sandwich. As small as the room is I think that saving a few inches and some time with Quietrock might be the way to go even if it is a few dollas more.

Is this overkill or not enough?

How do I sound proof a door though?

As sound proof doors are waaaay too much.

It seems useless to do all this sound deading just to have all that power bleed out though the door and window.

I believe that I can use an interior window insert to deaden the window.

Does that work?

If this thread takes off I will upload photos of the remodel from beginning to end.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

polkfarmboy

Put them lsifx on the back wall because the room is on the small side. It works great for when you get a scene with rain pouring down because it really opens up the back wall giving you bigger room sound

tonyb

Welcome to the club, and nice system your putting together. One thing I'd like to bring to your attention is the use of that receiver alone with the LSI's. It's not really up to snuff to drive them well and you could be risking damage to the receiver or speakers or both. Your going to need a 5 channel amplifier and you should budget one in along with 5 interconnect cables.

cfrizz

Welcome to Club Polk! That is going to be one great system. However I agree with Tony, make sure to budget for a 200wpc @ 8ohms 5 channel amplifier. This will allow your power hungry LSI's to operate to their full potential and take the strain off of your receiver.

One Dolla Wells

Ok, planning on putting the LSiFX on the back wall now, thanks polkfarmboy.

Purchased the Onkyo specifically for these speakers 4 ohm rating and my current budget. Onkyo claims 8 ohm output is 135 watts, 6 ohm output is 160 watts, yet Onkyo does not put watt rating on the 4 ohm output. I would like to believe that the receiver will output 185 watts at 4 ohms, I realize this is wishful thinking. After listening to this receiver, a Denon, and a Yamaha with the LSi9's I decided on the Onkyo. Added bonus was the HQV video processor for 1080p upscaling. The 4k upscaling does me no good. I plan on using the receiver without a separate amp to start as I am spending quite a bit of cash on purchasing the home and the renovations.

What is the benefit to sound quality from a separate amp?

What 5 or 7 channel amp do you suggest?

Another forum has suggested a Emotiva XPA-3 3 Channel amp, will that throw off the sound balance?

What is a interconnect cable?

Thanks for the help guys as I'm a nube to this, but want to get it right.

cfrizz

What Onkyo doesn't tell you is that to achieve that 4 ohm rating, they throttle back the power even more so that the reciever doesn't burn up or go into protect mode.

The benefits of separate power is better vocals, instruments, separation, and bass. Do a search here on the board about this issue.

These are IC's they connect the amplifier to your receiver. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

Emotiva will get the job done at a reasonable price. Or if you don't mind buying used check out www.audiogon.com for the following brands. Emotiva, Parasound, Sunfire, Outlaw Audio, B&K, Nad, Adcom, Rotel.

This gear is made to last for years, so even buying used you can get years of service out of it, and save money.

polkfarmboy

What is a interconnect cable? Its a very important cable like cathy..cfrizz said but here is a better deal as MIT is some if not thee best in the buisness http://www.mitcablesexpress.com/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=107&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=14

I own some exp2's and they are great for HT http://www.mitcablesexpress.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=275&category_id=107&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=14

cfrizz

That's all well & good PFB, however, what does he use & what will it cost to get a length longer than 2m?

polkfarmboy

Just a suggestion for some amazing cables at a better than used price if he can swing it for the length

To the OP I think you may like an emotiva upa5 if its just for HT and no serious music listening as they can be had for around $450 for 5 ch at 125w of clean power or an adcom

cfrizz

That's really not enough power to drive an all LSI setup, the more power he can give them the better they will sound and the less strain on his receiver.

Here is another amp thread to check out with another happy camper.

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?130053-anothor-Newbie-needing-Amp-advice&p=1740348#post1740348

polkfarmboy

Well I drive some Martin Logan Vista , Stage and Source se with a upa5 and they are way more power hungry than the LSI when it comes to dipping down for the highs and lows in the ohm department

One Dolla Wells

I believe that I am sold on a separate amplifier and I'm considering the Emotiva XPA-5.

JimAckley

Good to see the guys have you on the right path. An amp can really clean up the LSis, and the Emotivas give great bang for the buck.

...Just wait til you dig around this section more and find out about the mods... :cheesygrin: #openpandorasbox

F1nut

One Dolla Wells wrote: »

I believe that I am sold on a separate amplifier and I'm considering the Emotiva XPA-5.

Don't drink the Kool-Aid.

tonyb

Nobody can say your not consistant Jess.

While the Emo would work for what it does, better choices abound, that I can agree on.

One Dolla Wells

Ok, so the budget is 1000 or less for the separate amplifier. I would like to power all 5 speakers with it. What should I purchase and why?

polkfarmboy

I would buy a rotel 1095 for that kinda money or if you wait a little you can sometimes find an anthem mca50. The emo xpa5 is said to be bad but i spoke with a guy who was getting rid of a theta intrepid 5ch 4K + amp to make way for the emo. We on the forum know there is better than emo and we know good sound but some people like emo so try out whats best for you and decide

One Dolla Wells

Well, I drank the Kool Aid. Emotiva XPA-5 is on order. I plan on putting up a diagram of the room and before I start the project will begin posting photos of the room and the gear.

Tankman

That Emotiva XPA-5 will drive them well.I am driving my LSi-15's with two UPA-1 monoblocks.Very Smooooth sounding amps,Killer headroom.

cfrizz

I'm glad you didn't listen to the elitists, that amp will give your LSI's all the power that they need whenever they need it. And it can be used with any other gear you get now and in the future, and you put the money you saved on the amp toward the purchase of the ICs that you are going to need.

I look forward to reading your updates on this project.

F1nut

cfrizz wrote: »

I'm glad you didn't listen to the elitists, that amp will give your LSI's all the power that they need whenever they need it. And it can be used with any other gear you get now and in the future, and you put the money you saved on the amp toward the purchase of the ICs that you are going to need.

So, what you're saying is that sound quality doesn't matter, that as long as an amp is at least 200wpc it's as good as it gets?

Tankman

One Dolla Wells wrote: »

Well, I drank the Kool Aid. Emotiva XPA-5 is on order. I plan on putting up a diagram of the room and before I start the project will begin posting photos of the room and the gear.

...Lolo..me too!..Not bad ..not bad at all!.Smoooooth!!!J/Kin guys..Better amps out there?..Well yeah..at 5g's!yikes!..

polkfarmboy

One positive is that your always evolving in the audio hobby and Emo has great resale value. You can listen to the emo and decide what you like and have a better understanding of what sound actually is when moving up the food chain. We all start someplace so same with your ic's , get somthing cheap and then when your ready swap them out for some higher quality ones later on when your ready to move up in the hobby. I hear the Emo xpa5 rolls of the highs so it may not mesh well with the lsi's tweeters for HT listening

cfrizz

F1nut wrote: »

So, what you're saying is that sound quality doesn't matter, that as long as an amp is at least 200wpc it's as good as it gets?

No, what I'm saying is that everyone has to work within their own budget, and I also take into account that not everyone comfortable buying used gear and would rather buy something brand new and that Emotiva allow a lot more people to get into the world of separates which are better than most receivers at an affordable price.

I don't assume that everyone has golden ears or is going to sit there picking apart their systems trying their damnedest to find something WRONG with them rather than listening and enjoying how much better they sound now. I don't assume that they are constantly looking to upgrade to something better. I'm betting that the majority just want to put together a decent middle of the road system that they can enjoy for years to come.

I've seen too many on here NOT being able to hear a difference between lower watt amps and whatever receiver they have. The whole point of a separate amp is to hear a clear and distinct difference, and for the vast majority, they can hear that difference with 200wpc amps.

My goal here is to help the most people get the maximum enjoyment out of their gear without going broke in the process. I always try to do so without putting down their choice of gear, which is something you are totally INCAPABLE of doing as evidenced by your snide & rude Koolaid statement above.

Tankman

@cfrizz..I commend you on your post.Says what this Forum is really about.If i had to buy monoblocks anywheres else i would have paid over $1200 each.Emotiva has really good amps they just ellimate the middle man.For what i paid for my UPA-1's $698.00 was a really good buy,and they have killer headroom and sound as good if not better than my Carvers i had back in the day.But too say "Don't Drink the Koolaid" is a statement of a closed mine.What a waste i say.I never push one over the other or put anyones gear in a category of personal taste of flavor.I paid a lil over $900.00 for Lsi-15's new and full 5 years new.Great sounding speaker and a Hugh improvement over my M70'sand pairing them with my UPA-1's with the 350 watts into 4 omhs like i said smooooth great sounding!

F1nut

cfrizz wrote: »

No, what I'm saying is that everyone has to work within their own budget, and I also take into account that not everyone comfortable buying used gear and would rather buy something brand new and that Emotiva allow a lot more people to get into the world of separates which are better than most receivers at an affordable price.

I don't assume that everyone has golden ears or is going to sit there picking apart their systems trying their damnedest to find something WRONG with them rather than listening and enjoying how much better they sound now. I don't assume that they are constantly looking to upgrade to something better. I'm betting that the majority just want to put together a decent middle of the road system that they can enjoy for years to come.

I've seen too many on here NOT being able to hear a difference between lower watt amps and whatever receiver they have. The whole point of a separate amp is to hear a clear and distinct difference, and for the vast majority, they can hear that difference with 200wpc amps.

My goal here is to help the most people get the maximum enjoyment out of their gear without going broke in the process. I always try to do so without putting down their choice of gear, which is something you are totally INCAPABLE of doing as evidenced by your snide & rude Koolaid statement above.

There use to be a time when the forum collective inspired and encouraged others to better their system. Now, we have people like you that encourage folks to settle for entry level and in turn do those folks a great injustice. What a shame.

Did it occur to you that one possible reason they hear a difference between their AVR and a 200wpc amp isn't because it actually sounds better, it just plays louder and for those folks without experience louder equates to better. The goal of any audio enthusiast should be quality sound and watts per channel is not an indication of the sound quality.

Perhaps a better understanding of audio and more personal experience would help you to offer more informed advice in the future.

F1nut

Tankman wrote: »

But too say "Don't Drink the Koolaid" is a statement of a closed mine.

No, it's a sign of experience.

cfrizz

F1nut wrote: »

There use to be a time when the forum collective inspired and encouraged others to better their system. Now, we have people like you that encourage folks to settle for entry level and in turn do those folks a great injustice. What a shame.

Did it occur to you that one possible reason they hear a difference between their AVR and a 200wpc amp isn't because it actually sounds better, it just plays louder and for those folks without experience louder equates to better. The goal of any audio enthusiast should be quality sound and watts per channel is not an indication of the sound quality.

Perhaps a better understanding of audio and more personal experience would help you to offer more informed advice in the future.

So now you are saying no one can hear a difference between entry level separates vs a receiver? Funny Wood4Sheep2 described the benefits of separate amplification perfectly and none of it had anything to do with how much louder his system could play!

"Wood4Sheep2

Happy Camper reporting back in after a weekend of putting the new amp thru gauntlet!



Okay... what a fun weekend! I ran the Set up on the reciever fresh and tested out settings and found that with a few adjustments I was off and running.

Thanks to all for help and to PSOVLSK for an enjoyable process of buying the amp. Hope your new one is a good fit for you!

I plugged in the amp and happened to turn on the tv first. It was on the news and I was shocked at the clarity of what I was hearing. A senator was talking from capital building and I could hear the footsteps and echoes and people in detail behind him, wispers and paper shuffling. Wow!. It was crazy.

I tried music first and tried out a smattering of Queen, Led Zepplin, Sade, and a few others. So much clarity and detail. Such a nice wall of sound. I had a great time. I think my favorite was Queen and Led Zepplin. Laying back on the couch and listening to "babe I am going to leave you" was breathtaking. So much detail so much music. Good stuff.

Then over the weekend I tried all my top favorite movie scenes for sound in blu-ray
Pod races from Star Wars, Opening scene from " a new hope" Star Trek the new movie opening scenes, The Dark Knight, LOTR Fellowship opening scenes, House of Flying Daggers inthe uncompressed PCM, plus in honor of the weekend I picked up the Matrix Blu-Ray collection as my girlfriend loves that movie and my daughter has never seen it somehow.
We watched the matrix in full and enjoyed it so much.

My observatins at the end of the weekend.
1. Much happier when I set the L/R speakers to large.
2. Ummm.... the lower sounds are much better on the a9's than my sub woofer ( I am sure this speaks to the subwoofer but such purchases are way down the road. Breather time). I was having trouble with the low end sounds being distracting. I tried adjustments on the sub but when I tried just disabling it all got better, much better.
3. My surrounds love the amp. So much better sound from them so much clearer so much better field of sound with so much more detal woven in. The xpa-5 was a great choice. All the speakers are amp happy.
4. Detail, Clarity is so much better. The warmth and woven nature of the sound field is vastly improved. In theater mode it is a whole room feeling a field in the whole room. special effects play across the room more convincingly. In music mode the instruments are more crisp and defined. The layers of details are more confident and present. So much more to hear. TV is better all the way around.
5. it solved a raspy problem that I was working on in trouble shooting. I am sure that the better purer sound eliminated some discordant issues I was hearing.
6. I am sure that in the future I could improve further with a receiver upgrade but I feel that It is pretty impressive the way it is.
7. I noticed a vast difference in sound quality based on recordings. Older music that was flatly translated to CD did not play out well and showed up weaknesses so much! Good CD's sounded awesome. The remastered Beatles was so much better than the older CD's. TV with bad audio is much more apparent. lower quality theater sound is much more apparent. I dont mind this. It is a sign of the system working so much better.
8. I think any final breakin will be quicker with the better powered amps.
It was a fun first weekend. I tried not be too obsessed with it and managed to put in enough time on it and still enjoy the awesome weather this weekend.

Thanks again to all!"

Any entry level separates gear will sound better sound much better than your run of the mill receiver, and most of it cost much more then the vast majority of the population would ever consider paying.

So yes I will definately encourage members who come on here looking to upgrade their systems with the better than average entry level separates which will leave them very happy with their purchases which might encourage them to continue going higher up the chain to more expensive gear. But if they in turn are content with their improvements and are happy to stay there, I'm not going to put them down for it, I will simply tell them to enjoy it for years to come.

Tankman

F1nut wrote: »

No, it's a sign of experience.

..Watts not only a sign of quality?.Dude experience?..Watts has more too do with clarity of the sound then anything else.The Damping Factor more too do with control of the drivers and so on.

F1nut

Tankman wrote: »

Watts has more too do with clarity of the sound then anything else.

That's incorrect. I take it you've never heard a 5 watt SET amp.

The Damping Factor more too do with control of the drivers and so on.

That's incorrect as well. The fact is that the difference between a damping factor of 10 and 1000 is so small that it doesn't matter.

F1nut

cfrizz wrote: »

So now you are saying no one can hear a difference between entry level separates vs a receiver?

Please re-read my comment, "Did it occur to you that one possible reason they hear a difference between their AVR and a 200wpc amp isn't because it actually sounds better, it just plays louder and for those folks without experience louder equates to better. The goal of any audio enthusiast should be quality sound and watts per channel is not an indication of the sound quality."

Note that I said ONE possible reason.