Help choosing TT

hochpt21

I bought a used Sony PS-LX410 a couple years ago when I started getting into vinyl. Didn't want to make too big an investment on a new hobby. Two years later, 250+ albums and a nitty gritty...I figure its time to upgrade.

My budget is about $700 including cart (I know that limits my options)

Local dealer has the Rega RP1 with performance pack (better cart, drive belt and mat) for $650.

Would I be better off going with the RP1 new or something used?

P.S. I would prefer to buy new, but am flexible if a much better sound can be had in the same price range.

Thanks all,
Paul

mhardy6647

The nice thing about buying new is that you get a deck with fresh, unused (i.e., unabused) bearings.
The Rega is a decent deck (albeit not without its detractors) with a good arm.

You could get a much better tt for that kind of money used... but you also have to be very careful - or very lucky - to get one that is in really good working order given the high-tolerance/high precision moving parts.

Safest course of action is buying new with tts, I'd opine.

That said, I found my daily driver on the "swap pile" at our town dump....

TroyD

It depends....I mean, I probably wouldn't hesitate to get a used (later model) VPI, Rega etc, presuming you could pick it up it person or they have seriously good feedback and the original boxes/packing. I would stay away from really vintage (ie more than a decade) gear.

Personally, I'd save your pennies and try to get a little farther up the food chain.

BDT

mhardy6647

TroyD wrote: »

...

Personally, I'd save your pennies and try to get a little farther up the food chain.

BDT

Indeed. I'd concur (in fact, I meant to mention that)... unfortunately, for under $1k spent on a new production tt, what you'll get is kind of nominal. I guess this could be taken as an argument to go used in the interim.

FWIW, I don't categorically agree with the admonition to "stay away from really vintage (i.e., more than a decade [old]) gear"... but one certainly has to be very careful of "wear and tear" issues on truly vintage turntables when selecting a used one. And here's a piece of free advice - DON'T EVER buy a used turntable under circumstances that will require its being shipped! Yes, there are some folks who understand how to properly pack one - but the odds are so not in one's favor that the safest course of action is just don't even THINK about doing it. Support the local economy! :-)

Oh, and this an attempted artsy shot of my dump-find daily driver... yes I have a much nicer (and far more expensive) Clearaudio (OEM for Marantz) tt - but I don't care for the sound of the CA cartridge that it came with... and the LOMC I am using in the Technics is very low compliance and quite unsuitable for the rather low-mass CA arm on the Marantz.

hochpt21

Thanks for the advice guys. I havn't heard any of them yet, but over the phone he recommended the RP3. That would be about $400 over my price range right now, but maybe somehting worth going for.

This is a little embarrasing but here is the main reason for my urge to act now. When I got the TT I just plugged it in and started playing it as is. I had some old MTX speakers and a Sony receiver. As I have been slowly upgrading equipment and listening skills I noticed some, I believe it's called sibilance.

This made me take a closer look at the TT. I attemped to balance the arm by using a youtube video and realized that even with the weight pushed all the way back the arm wouldn't balance. My thought is the grado black cart is too heavy. I now fear that I may be damaging the vinyl.

With that said, it may be an easy fix, but I would rather upgrade tables anyway.

I know there is a lot to learn about setting and maintaining tables, but I figure if I buy new, at least there should be limited maintenance for a while...

TroyD

I agree, I wouldn't categorically eliminate vintage...but, it would REALLY be a statistical abberation.

Don't know anything about your table or cartridge but if you are worried, don't use it. Take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

I get the whole sense of urgency thing, I'm the poster child for instant gratification.....I mean, between nothing and nothing, sure the Rega RP1 is plug and play and will give you decent playback. However, I still would be patient. A few more pesos will yield sound that will carry you through MANY upgrade cycles.

BDT

DaveHo

I've also been considering upgrading my TT & am looking in the same price range as you. Many of the authorized online sellers will negotiate on price. My leading candidate right now is the Music Hall mmf-5.1 with the magic 3 cart. I've been quoted a price of $700 including shipping from an authorized seller. IMHO, this table would be a big step up from a Rega RP1 even with the upgrades. PM me if you want more info on the seller.

-Dave

mhardy6647

hochpt21 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice guys. I havn't heard any of them yet, but over the phone he recommended the RP3. That would be about $400 over my price range right now, but maybe somehting worth going for.

This is a little embarrasing but here is the main reason for my urge to act now. When I got the TT I just plugged it in and started playing it as is. I had some old MTX speakers and a Sony receiver. As I have been slowly upgrading equipment and listening skills I noticed some, I believe it's called sibilance.

This made me take a closer look at the TT. I attemped to balance the arm by using a youtube video and realized that even with the weight pushed all the way back the arm wouldn't balance. My thought is the grado black cart is too heavy. I now fear that I may be damaging the vinyl.

With that said, it may be an easy fix, but I would rather upgrade tables anyway.

I know there is a lot to learn about setting and maintaining tables, but I figure if I buy new, at least there should be limited maintenance for a while...

1) the "three" is definitely better.

2) something's amiss if you cannot balance a Grado Black. That Sony's a P-mount, isn't it? If so, there's a standard for the cartridge mass - a P-mount Grado should meet it and require minimal adjustment (in fact, it shouldn't require any).

EDIT: FWIW, the service manual for the PS-LX310 (which appears to be -?- very similar to the 410) is available for free d/l at http://www.vinylengine.com/library/sony/ps-lx310.shtml (free registration required to download stuff). The manual includes detailed instructions to balance and adjust VTF for this P-mount arm.

SCompRacer

Hi Paul. I agree with being careful buying used. It is helpful to have a speed checker and run the arm through a neutral balance swing and bob test to check the tone arm bearings. To get higher in the food chain I have bought many used or dealer demo tables.

Where are you located in Wisconsin? One of our Rockford Audio Society members is selling a nice Pro-Ject 2.9 with Sumiko Blue Point No2 cartridge. This is a picture of the actual table. I can put the two of you in touch if you are interested.



My affiliation is being a good friend. Reason for sale is he bought my Nottingham Space 294 turntable with Dynavector 17D3 cartridge. He is located near the border in Rockton, IL.

SCompRacer

I've only had one problem with someone shipping an old turntable. This Kenwood was from from an ebay seller. This was after I questioned their "well packed." I asked and was assured that the platter would be removed before shipping. The platter was removed....only during shipping which damaged the tonearm. Usually a loose platter takes out the dust cover as well. Fortunately I only needed the electronics to repair a CP forum friends table.

thsmith

A little over your budget
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/marantz-tt-15s1-turntable-new-in-the-box--2

If you was to go this way I have the Mint Tractor and USB microscope to align the cart.

This TT and Cart would be hard to beat for $1200 and I bet $1000 could get it.

hochpt21

That would be awesome. I am about 2 hours from the border.

I'll send you a pm.

cnh

I had a Technics TT shipped to me by a fellow Polkie from coast to coast. He did an absolutely "amazing" job of securing and packing the table--took me 15-20 minutes to free the table from its packing and remove all the tape, etc. that was, literally, locking everything into place. That was a couple of years ago or more. The TT is still working flawlessly. But then again it was an auto Direct Drive Quartz lock.

I actually received a cheapo table for light use in my basement with a vintage system I'm putting together, today. Nothing special. Certainly, nothing a TT aficionado would approve of. The table arrived double boxed, the outer box had over 2-3" of foam on all 6 sides. With the exception of having to reset the tone arm weight, it seems to be up and running. Probably needs a new needle, though.The point being, that you "can" ship an old table and it can play well enough.

Not to take away from the esoteric realms of TTs, but when us baby-boomers were spinning endless amounts of vinyl back in the day, few of us knew that much about wear and tear, tables, cartridges, needles, tracking, rumble, and so on. Many of us had some cheapo BSR unit that played (probably grinding away at our vinyl surfaces and ruining our LPs but we didn't notice--we were too "young" and reckless--and also too "poor" to run with the elite squadron of vinyl spinners--but they didn't buy most of the records either--weren't that important to the music industry).

These days. I read all this info about tracking, mounting, protractors, calibrating, on and on...makes me feel like I should go back to school and get an advanced degree in TTs. lol (I already have too many degrees).

I'm certainly not saying that all that does not make a difference. (But what tedium! And that from someone who's familiar with languages which are mostly learned through rote memorization--not unlike organic chem, there)!

I have "so" many things to remember at this point that I need a grey matter "upgrade". And you know that's not going to happen because brain cells are dying off every day! Age!

So I'm leaving vinyl to those who still have some storage capacity left and, of course, the money.

I remember a story about a Philosophy Prof. at my Alma mater (Morris Cohen), of whom it was said, "He had an incredible "memory" before his "stroke"!

cnh

hochpt21

Yea, I don't want to sound lazy, but with work, family, etc. I probably already spend to much time on my audio equipment. I basically want a TT that sounds better that what I got, and one that I won't have to mess around too much with. Is that too much to ask.

DaveHo

Not at all. That's where I'm at. Had a p-mount Sony linear tracker growing up. Now 20+ years later I & still don't feel like messing with set-up BS. Just want to plug in & go & get great sound. Yeah, I know that comes at a premium, so be it...

madmax

I have a turntable for high end audio but picked up one of these because I sometimes get into old 45's and 78's. I figured it would be fine for that and has lots of adjustability for speeds (78's are all over the place as far as speed they were recorded at).

http://www.needledoctor.com/Stanton-Turntable-ST-150?sc=2&category=354

After getting it and playing around for awhile I find it to be a fine turntable, even for 33's in a high end system. Its build quality is WAY beyond anything for $500 and the tone arm is great for that price. The tone arm is really its limiting factor, the build of the rest of the table is awesome. The arm isn't garbage or anything, I'm just used to an SME arm which puts most things to shame. I personally would buy this model if I needed something under $1500 for use as my main table. The cartridge works ok but should be upgraded. Plus, Mapleshade makes all sorts of tweaks for this table. I am incredibly impressed with this table for $500, it should cost much more.
madmax

madmax

Oh, and the mat needs to be replaced with something reasonable, if only a felt replacement.

cnh

That looks like a nice TT. Seems like an almost clone of something like a Technics SL 1200MKII or the like. Probably well worth the money "new".

Well, I just found out that the Phono section of my Sansui AU-517 is faulty the other day. The Left channel is Popping corn, the right is clean. Tested the TT on an old Pioneer SX 838 (no problems whatsoever).

So far my journey into the nostalgic past seems to suggest that vintage Receivers hold up FAR better than vintage Integrateds. Almost every integrated I've had from Sansui to Kenwood has crapped out on me, where as most all of my receivers have had, at best, only "minor" problems, and most--none at all! What's up with that?

Anyway, the Stanton seems like an excellent buy!

cnh

madmax

Don't go too much from the factory photos. When I ordered mine I though it would be junky looking, its not. I'll see if I have any pics.

I've picked up several integrateds and have also found they are often problematic.

SCompRacer

I have a 4 speed manual shift, 16 to 78.:cheesygrin: My heavy plinth idler drive Lenco L75.

ShadesPG

i use 2 technics SL1200MKII turntables...one for the living room and one for the bedroom. both have Shure M-447 cartridges and technics headshells. i think they work and sound great. bought the pair of TT's for $450 and dropped $144 for the pair of cartridges and headshells preassembled.

really happy with it.

hochpt21

Update...

Today, I purchased the TT in Post #9. Thanks for the assist, Scomp. The guy was super cool and drove the TT 2 hours for me to test out in my system. He even gave me five albums to go with it.

Limited listening today, but so far I am very happy with the upgrade. I used my usual reference material. Pink Floyd...Meddle. Buddy Guy and Jr. Wells acoustic album and some Pieta Brown. A bigger, fuller more open sound. Much more defined as well. Better separation of the instruments. I know none of this is a big surprise considering the old Sony I was using before, but hey, just thought I'd share.

Anyways...really liking the sound and really liking the look.

Thanks for all the input.

Paul

mhardy6647

Do you have a good sounding pressing of Meddle?!? The two I have are both crackly - and I have been told that this is endemic to most (at least domestic) pressings of the album... a dang shame, for Fearless is my favorite-est of all-est Pink Floyd song :-) It'd be nice to have a good sounding copy on vinyl.

Oh, glad that the tt worked out! :-)

hochpt21

I guess I haven't heard anything that sounds crackly on it. Not sure if it is a domestic pressing or not, but it sure sounds good to me.

SCompRacer

hochpt21 wrote: »

Thanks for the assist, Scomp.

Most excellent! Glad it worked out for both of you Paul. Rob is top notch and proof that buying used does work with the right people whom take care of their gear. He has thousands of LP's in his listening room and is a music guru in our group. I don't go with him often, but we love to shop for used music up in Madison and Milwaukee. (It is near a four hour round trip for me to and from his place). Lots of fun and Milwaukee is a great place to spend the day in.

Njoy!

mhardy6647

hochpt21 wrote: »

I guess I haven't heard anything that sounds crackly on it. Not sure if it is a domestic pressing or not, but it sure sounds good to me.

Post a photo of the LP's label (if you can and if you're so inclined), please. Also, what information is scratched into the "deadwax" (the "lead-out" groove area)?

heiney9

hochpt21 wrote: »

Update...

Today, I purchased the TT in Post #9. Thanks for the assist, Scomp. The guy was super cool and drove the TT 2 hours for me to test out in my system. He even gave me five albums to go with it.

Limited listening today, but so far I am very happy with the upgrade. I used my usual reference material. Pink Floyd...Meddle. Buddy Guy and Jr. Wells acoustic album and some Pieta Brown. A bigger, fuller more open sound. Much more defined as well. Better separation of the instruments. I know none of this is a big surprise considering the old Sony I was using before, but hey, just thought I'd share.

Anyways...really liking the sound and really liking the look.

Thanks for all the input.

Paul

Rob is a great guy and I have heard that TT many times. I was originally thinking about buying it at the very beginning when he bought Rich's Nottingham, but I just decided it wouldn't get much use. Enjoy!

H9

madmax

Congrats on finding your table!

hochpt21

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Post a photo of the LP's label (if you can and if you're so inclined), please. Also, what information is scratched into the "deadwax" (the "lead-out" groove area)?

Deadwax on side 1...STEREO BY CAPITOL...SMAS-2-832-F-22
Deadwax on side 2...1-832-H-19

mhardy6647

Thanks! Helpful. THat's much older than the two copies I have.

hochpt21

Here are a couple pics of my new crush.