Down-sizing options?

zingo

We may be putting on offer on a house this weekend which is very exciting, but since it's new construction, having huge, 2 channel stereo was not taken into account when the house was built; nor is it for most new construction it seems. I know I always have the option to put my system in the office or living room, but since I spend 90% of my time in the great room (family room/kitchen), I've always had my system in there, and would prefer to keep it in there so I can always listen to music. Below is a picture of what the TV side of the family room would look like.

The last think I want to do is get rid of my Fortes, but I really don't like the look of speakers sitting out in the room, in front of those cubbies in the walls. I could mount bookshelf speakers in the top cubbies, but I would still need to put all my electronics up there, as well as do a lot of custom in-wall wiring to keep everything looking clean. I've also considered a sound bar as they have a very clean install, and I'm sure the SurroundBar6000 is very nice, but I'm not sure how disappointed I'd be listening to music on it, coming from a real 2 channel.

I'd be very appreciative of any suggestions!

heiney9

Bose Lifestyles System :razz::cheesygrin:


Actually maybe Polk Blackstone and a nice sub. What are you trying to do? Nice 2ch or HT? Listening position important?

H9

cnh

That's a beautiful room but it does suck for anything "major" upfront. Since the architecture (built-ins and fireplace) is the showcase!

Wouldn't know what to do in there. Maybe a set of higher end bookshelves like Steve's Harbeths?

Congrats on the new home, though. It's really something special!

cnh

zingo

I'm trying to stay 2 channel, and I do most of my listening in the room, but only seated in the sweet spot a small percentage of the time.

A sub probably will be a must, and I can use a front corner for that no problem. I haven't heard the Blackstone, but are they that good to be paired with a sub for reasonable 2 channel?

heiney9

zingo wrote: »

I'm trying to stay 2 channel, and I do most of my listening in the room, but only seated in the sweet spot a small percentage of the time.

A sub probably will be a must, and I can use a front corner for that no problem. I haven't heard the Blackstone, but are they that good to be paired with a sub for reasonable 2 channel?

The Blackstone TL's are superb from what I've heard from a couple Polkies I trust. If they weren't so pricey I'd try to use them in a secondary system. Thought there was a Polk demo going around, that might have been awhile ago though.

H9

P.s. Especially the TL-3

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/blackstonetl/

Kex

I seem to be noticing what look like ceiling speaker grilles. How about installing the best ceiling speakers you can find?

drumminman

How about setting the speakers up on the wall opposite the sofa? Move the armchair to face the fireplace. You could put your electronics in the closest cubby (would need long speaker cables), or get a rack and place between the speaks.

Looks like you would have around 8-9 feet from the speakers to the listening position on the couch.

The window behind the sofa would be an issue, but with a little creativity you could minimize that.

Conradicles

That is the same style as my living room (But a bit nicer looking!).
I will tell you what I did later for a huge improvement...

zingo

That's a picture of the model and I never noticed the ceiling speakers before. Never though of of that, but I'd probably rather do in-walls in the cubbies if I went that direction.

The wall on the right side is not an options (bad picture) because it opens up to another part of the house after about 8 feet which would then put the stereo against the cubbie on that side. What ever happened to older houses with huge walls?

zingo

conradicles wrote: »

that is the same style as my living room (but a bit nicer looking!).
I will tell you what i did later for a huge improvement...

f5, f5, f5, f5, f5, f5, f5

EndersShadow

Well here is something to think about. I stole this from a post of F1's from the Carver forum in a thread about the Jacksonville audio show

Anyone looking for perhaps their last bookie, look at either the Joseph Audio Pulsars at $7000 or the Soundfield Audio Monitor 1 at only $1300. Let me tell you those Soundfield's are simply amazing. I'm saving my pennies for a pair in gloss black. He had some other large rather odd looking speakers at the CAF that looked like crap and I almost didn't go into his room. Damn glad I did as they were the best sounding full range speakers at the show putting Wilson, MBL, etc. to shame. The guy is an effing genius.

I looked at the Soundfield speakers and they aren't massive by any means so they might be able to work in your room. More than likely you would still need a small sub but thats easily hidden in a corner somewhere.

Just my .02. Waiting for more reviews on the Soundfield stuff myself.....

steveinaz

My particular Harbeth model is pretty big for a bookshelf---they are almost the same size as my HPM-40 Pioneers. Maybe the smaller harbeth studio monitor.

Kex

For a while now (I've other priorities for the moment), I've been intending to pursue the following plan:

1. High quality ceiling speakers for HT.
2. Two nice bookshelf or floorstanding speakers for a separate two channel system.

My logic has been that I know I can good enough sound from ceiling (or in-wall) speakers for watching movies, and I know I can get great sound from the right bookshelf/floorstanding speakers. I just don't know if the built-in options have come far enough to replace free standing speakers for moderately serious two channel listening. My plan currently is to make the movie system as inconspicuous as possible, but choose the right speakers for the two channel system so that they are attractive enough in their own right.

The reason I decided to use ceiling rather than in-wall is that ceiling speakers seem to interfere a lot less with the decor (almost not at all, in fact, since you didn't even notice them in the picture). An in-wall speaker is more visible because it's at eye height, and it also takes up a space where I might otherwise want to hang a picture instead. It might also look less than entirely attractive if positioned too close to a picture or other item of decor (basically detracting from the surrounding decor, certainly not enhancing it). I still have some more research to make my final decision, but it seems as though the options have come a long way now, with directional tweeter orientation and three way speaker options.

Speaking of which, I noticed that the new LS range now offers three-way speaker options, not just two way. You may not be contemplating a Polk Audio solution, but I think it's worth comparing the 900-LS ceiling model with with the 265-LS in-wall. I've added links below for convenience, as well as a link to the older LC80i from the previous range.

http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/vanishing/specs.php#inceiling
http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/vanishing/specs.php
http://www.polkaudio.com/customaudio/lci/specs.php#inceiling

After I've done that, I may use something like my existing pair of Mark & Daniel Maximus-Mini, that would not look too shabby in your recessed areas, and are even small enough to be wall mounted on custom stands. They are an excellent two channel speaker in my opinion, and perform way beyond what their size would suggest. They have the added advantage of being extremely tolerant of position. Obviously, the styling is not neutral, and that decision would be a matter of taste. I might also opt for something much bigger, but gorgeous, so that it becomes part of the decor, rather than detracting from it (or attempting to hide itself).

The Maximus-Mini: big bookshelf sound from a very small "designer" package:
http://www.mark-daniel.com/Pro_En.asp?ProID=47

I'm really interested to see what solutions you eventually choose. I'll probably be making my decisions before the year is out. Hopefully sooner, rather than later.

zingo

Are there any decent sound bars?

heiney9

zingo wrote: »

Are there any decent sound bars?

The Surround Bar 360 was impressive at the last Polkfest HQ. Really impressive. If I had a need for a product like this I wouldn't hesitate. Not cheap and you'll obviously need a sub.

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/surroundbar/#360-dvd-theater

A little dated because I don't think it does Bluray.

Or this, which can be used with current gear

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/surroundbar/#surroundbar-sda-instant-home-theater

Jim Shearer

If you have been thinking of more modest size speakers, maybe you would consider building your own speakers using single full range drivers! Two possible choices from among many:
1) Metronomes with Fostex FF125wk drives. Haven't looked up dimensions for this model (and if they aren't available, maybe I could help out), but I think they would be less than 5' tall and around 11" wide at the base. If you used Fostex FF165wk, they would be about 5.5' tall & a little wider at the base. they could be put near corners.
2) BIB corner horns using something a little larger; maybe Fostex FF165wk; 68" H, 11" W, 15" D; easier build than the Mets.
To see what I'm talking about, look at: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/ and search for BIB or Metronome
Cheers, Jim

zingo

Good thinking!

Maybe a small corner horn would be a good option as I already use tubes and do like the Klipschorn; I would have about 16" between the corner and the cubbies. Any thought on a speaker that would fit the bill; whether commercial or DIY? That might also negate my need for a subwoofer...

zingo

What about mounting a full range driver (like the Tang Band W8-1808) in a triangle shaped enclosure and sticking them in the corners? I'm sure there is a fancier/better way to do it, but if the enclosure size was appropriate, wouldn't that sound decent?

sucks2beme

http://www.retrothing.com/2010/09/modernizing-the-console-stereo.html
You could always do something like this. Buy a old console and retrofit in something.
A small integrated Linn with cdp. amp, preamp all together and build a custom speaker
box inside the console. Make the speaker vent to the bottom, and that should keep
the ugly wall bounces down to a minimum. Next up- build custom speaker/end tables for the sofa,
tuck a small set up of electronics in a corner and do your listening from the overstuffed chair.
Or give up and buy a good headphone rig!

Jim Shearer

Zingo,

Running the numbers through Godzilla's calculator: the Tang Band W8-1808 would be rather a LARGE BIB: H 75.5", W 20.5", D 28.5". The 1808 has some very positive reviews, but I would be inclined to put it on an open baffle. And having built single driver speakers using moderately priced drivers with and without whizzer cones, I think I would go with a driver that is whizzer-less. My thought is still that the FF165wk would make a reasonable BIB for your room. If the BIB doesn't pass the WAF test, then a Metronome using either the FF125wk or FF165wk seems like a good choice. I have built three pairs of Mets using Fostex drivers: FE108eSigma, F120a and FE176e. The bigger the driver the bigger the cabinet: 4', 4.5' and 5.5' respectively. The slim style and interesting shape of the Mets seems to meet with female approval. But I have to say: the BIB, while requiring placement in a corner or at lest against a wall (because it uses the room boundaries as an extension of the horn mouth), blends into the room better than you might think.
Cheers, Jim

zingo

What about taking a pair of Klipsch Heresy (or similar) and making corner cabinets for them. The horn can be mounted any where since they are sealed, and the cabinet should just be the appropriate volume. What issues am I overlooking?

Jim Shearer

I would be reluctant to go changing a cabinet. Speakers are designed as a unit. Changing dimensions (even though maintaining the same volume) may affect performance. If the width of the front baffle changes, for example, then the baffle step correction (part of the XO) needs to be changed. And placement in a corner may result in undesirable reinforcement of some bass freqs.

I can understand that full range drivers may not provide the SPLs or bass performance you as looking for, but re-jiggering two or three way systems to fit them into corners may prove even less satisfactory. And I'm sure there are multi-way speakers designed for corner placement.
Cheers, Jim

zingo

Scratch this post... The original house posted had too many issues, so we did not make an offer. We are making on offer tonight on a new house, and it has a standard living room with flat walls. This means I'll be going bigger, not smaller and I'll be hunting for a reasonable pair of Klipschorns.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

steveinaz

Oh yeah cap'n!

zingo

I'm hoping a nice pair of bi-amped Klipschorns would stunt my need to upgrade as it takes A LOT more money and floor space to progress beyond those horns.

markmarc

zingo wrote: »

Scratch this post... The original house posted had too many issues, so we did not make an offer. We are making on offer tonight on a new house, and it has a standard living room with flat walls. This means I'll be going bigger, not smaller and I'll be hunting for a reasonable pair of Klipschorns.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Since it sounds like new construction, this is a great time to get the builder to do a lot of what previously was done by the first owner. As a part of the deal get them to install sprinklers and grass in both front and back yard. Also, have them install the fence. The key is to avoid having to come up with cash and such for these items. Also, upgrade the pad under the carpets. I have more, but that is for dealing with the construction crew.

zingo

Thanks for the ideas Mark and we wrote a lot of that into our offer tonight. It is new construction, so I'm going to have some fun A/V install time ahead!

madmax

At first I thought maybe built-ins on either side of the fireplace but the plants look way too cool to mess with their space... Maybe some super small higher freqency speakers on either side with a woofer and sub some place not so visible?

zingo

Our offer was accepted on new construction which should be finished in August; thankfully not the first posted picture. I'll take a picture of the new living room when it's built, but just planning until then. Since I'll have the space and the time to plan it right, I'll be going with a pair of corner speakers; doesn't have to be KHorns but I do like them. I know Tannoy mades some cool corner speakers and horns, but any other suggestions for large, full range corner speakers?

zingo

Has anyone ever built or heard a pair of Brociner Back Loaded Corner Horns? The build looks straight forward enough, and it seems it would work well with a coaxial driver like the Altec based GPA 604-8H-III.

madmax

zingo wrote: »

Our offer was accepted on new construction which should be finished in August

Floor plans and pics, love to see other peoples houses!