Mcintosh Vs Pass

rdb2001

Guys, I need help in deciding. I know at the end of the day, my ears have to decide but I may not be able to put my ears on one of the amps. I recently sold off my entire setup and am now putting pieces together for my new setup which I hope will be my last for a while. This will take me a few months to acquire and this is my first dive into true high end. The speakers choices are down to Sonus Faber Luito or Cremona Line, B&W 804 Diamond, KEF's new R900's or there 203/2 Reference, and Dynaudio Contour 3.4. These will be a dual purpose setup HT/Music. Other gear will be the Peachtree Audio Grand Hybrid tube pre with the 32bit sabre dacs's and HT bypass for 2 channel playback. I will use a mac mini as my music server, and oppo 93 for sacd playback. I may eventually get into vinyl but that is down the road. I will proabably get an integra pre/pro for HT purposes. I will use audioquest cabling through out. I am leaning towards the Kef's or the 804d's which I can get at a great price. They are a little more foward than the Sonus Faber but they give me what I want for HT and paired with the right gear, are amazing for music as well in my opinion. I absolutely love Sonus Faber for music. They are very warm sounding, with silky smooth highs. They have the great clarity and depth. They just dont wow me for home theater and I think pairing with warm amps would just make them boring for home theater. I have yet to put my ears on Dynaudio but have an appt with a dealer this weekend. I hear so many great things about them that I had to take a listen. My listening taste are everything. I love music. I truly love female vocalist(ballads), classical music, movie themes. some jazz, and a little r&B. I just thought I would give you a run down of everything. I am looking at the Mcintosh MC252 and MC501. With Pass, I am looking at the X250, and the X3 3 channel for center and surrounds. I can listen to the Mcintosh but I dont think there is a Pass Dealer close to me. Thanks for your help. I am open to some other brands in that price range as well. Thanks

heiney9

Reno Hi Fi in Vegas is a Pass dealer, a great dealer in fact. They have in home trials if you are so inclined. I know it can be sort of a hassle. Me personally, if I was going to spend that kind of money I'd want to hear them first in my environmwnt with my other associated gear. In my case I already LOVE Pass gear so I'd buy it blind, but any other gear I'd want to hear first for that kind of $$$ expenditure.

H9

P.s. Next time, use a paragraph format as that was very annoying to read. In fact at first I just read a few sentences and gave up and wasn't going to respond. But I came back and read it, not an easy post to follow.

rdb2001

heiney9 wrote: »

Reno Hi Fi in Vegas is a Pass dealer, a great dealer in fact. They have in home trials if you are so inclined. I know it can be sort of a hassle. Me personally, if I was going to spend that kind of money I'd want to hear them first in my environmwnt with my other associated gear. In my case I already LOVE Pass gear so I'd buy it blind, but any other gear I'd want to hear first for that kind of $$$ expenditure.

H9

P.s. Next time, use a paragraph format as that was very annoying to read. In fact at first I just read a few sentences and gave up and wasn't going to respond. But I came back and read it, not an easy post to follow.

Thanks for the response. i have a friend from another forum who has Pass and he also recommended Reno Hifi. He bought his x250 from there. I just wish I could put my ear on them. I have heard the the mcintosh with the associated gear. I may take a chance on Pass if the price is good. I am getting the Mcintosh at a great deal. I just wanted to know do they have similar characteristics as far as their sound signature goes.

Sorry for the long first post. I started to break it up into paragraphs. Now that I go back, it is hard to read. Thanks

marvda1

great excuse to take the wife to vegas for a 3 or 4 day escape:cheesygrin:

Face

Pass=neutral
Newer Mac=neutral to warmish

Both can sound great.

I'd pass on B&W if you're going to use this rig for music too. KEF and Dynaudio are good choices, but Sonus Faber(depending on which model) would probably be my preference.

heiney9

I'd add to Face's post that some Pass gear is dead neutral but the class A stuff is neutral to warmish.

I am not that familiar with the different Mac models.

H9

Face

Their newer gear, especially tubed, is more neutral than warmish.

heiney9

I want to try one of those Pass SIT (static induction transistor) amps, but I just don't have that kind of coin to spend on audio. Hopefully it will become more mainstream in the future as the R&D gets worked out for a larger scale, higher wattage amp(s). Although since Nelson had the SIT specially made, they are finite and at some point in the future unless more are ordered it will probably be a rare beast.

H9

rdb2001

Face wrote: »

Pass=neutral
Newer Mac=neutral to warmish

Both can sound great.

I'd pass on B&W if you're going to use this rig for music too. KEF and Dynaudio are good choices, but Sonus Faber(depending on which model) would probably be my preference.

Thanks for the reply. When listening to Mcintosh, they did have a warm sound with the B&W's. I would love the Cremona line of Sonus Faber but at 10k for the towers, thats more than what I want to spend even though I would be getting a nice discount on them. The B&W's with the peachtree audio hybrid tube pre and the mcintosh was an amazing sounding rig. The pairing that really blew my mind was the 802d's with the peachtree hybrid tube integrated. That pairing was one of the best if not the best system I have ever put my ears on. It was absolutely amazing.

I would love Sonus Faber but they don't wow me for home theater. Music, they are the best speakers to date that I have auditioned. The Luito line sounded great but didnt have the tightness and accuracy down low that the 804's had. I have owned Kef's Q series and I have read reviews that the R has a lot of the blade technology in them and sound more like the blade series.

I just want to do it right and be done for a while. The B&W's and Sonus Faber I would be getting at a nice discount new in the box, so thats why they are in the discussion. The Kef's and Dynaudio would be closer to retail unless I could find mint models on the used market.

rdb2001

heiney9 wrote: »

I'd add to Face's post that some Pass gear is dead neutral but the class A stuff is neutral to warmish.

I am not that familiar with the different Mac models.

H9

I have looked at some Aleph Mono's on the used market and they are very reasonable. I definitely want something with the warm sounding to tame the Diamond Tweeter on the B&W's or the Tweeter used in the Kef speakers. They both have a slightly foward sound signature which works great for home theater but can be fatguing for music.

heiney9

Aleph mono's are very nice. Just beware they put out some heat. My single Aleph 30 raises the room temp by 3-4*. I actually Passed (pun intended) on a pair of Aleph 60 mono's because I was worried about the heat issue. It's especially bad in the Summer months unless running the air on a hot day. Just something to think about with the single ended class A amps.

H9

Face

For HT use, I'd stick to a class A/B amp for the needed headroom.

heiney9

Face wrote: »

For HT use, I'd stick to a class A/B amp for the needed headroom.

Good point, which I totally forgot about when replying.

steveinaz

rdb2001 wrote: »

I just want to do it right and be done for a while.

If this is indeed true, then get your Sonus Faber Cremonas. Nothing matters more than speakers, and you will never stop chasing your tail until you make the commitment. Save for your "prized" speakers, let the other stuff wait awhile.

Biggest mistake audiophiles make is not making speakers PRIORITY 1.

rdb2001

steveinaz wrote: »

If this is indeed true, then get your Sonus Faber Cremonas. Nothing matters more than speakers, and you will never stop chasing your tail until you make the commitment. Save for your "prized" speakers, let the other stuff wait awhile.

Biggest mistake audiophiles make is not making speakers PRIORITY 1.

I agree with the above statement, it is just that I dont think those are my favorite speakers right now for the dual purpose setup. Honestly, for dual purpose, they are about 3rd on the list behind B&W and Kef. I have yet to listen to any Dynaudios. If this was a music only setup, it would not be a debate for me and they would be my first choice. I am just trying to to get the speakers and gear that fits my needs for music and home theater. Both are a priority for me. My wife wants this to be it for a while so I am trying to put the best system I can together that takes care both of my needs. This is harder than I expected.

Joe08867

I would listen to the Mac stuff on the speakers you plan to use. Mac's have a tendency to carry there own kind of sound into the signal. Kind of like boutique amps have there own sound for guitars. Some really like and some really don't. I like it on certain speakers.

I wouldn't hesitate on Pass. Neutral as the day is long and can sound super warm if mixed with the right gear. Especially there class A stuff like Brock stated earlier.

Face

rdb2001 wrote: »

I agree with the above statement, it is just that I dont think those are my favorite speakers right now for the dual purpose setup. Honestly, for dual purpose, they are about 3rd on the list behind B&W and Kef. I have yet to listen to any Dynaudios. If this was a music only setup, it would not be a debate for me and they would be my first choice. I am just trying to to get the speakers and gear that fits my needs for music and home theater. Both are a priority for me. My wife wants this to be it for a while so I am trying to put the best system I can together that takes care both of my needs. This is harder than I expected.

If SF doesn't do it for you in a HT, Dynaudio probably won't either.

Out of B&W and KEF, I'd heavily lean towards KEF.

Another one to consider, how about Polk's LSiM707's.

rdb2001

Face wrote: »

If SF doesn't do it for you in a HT, Dynaudio probably won't either.

Out of B&W and KEF, I'd heavily lean towards KEF.

Another one to consider, how about Polk's LSiM707's.

I have thought about the LSIm 707 and they are very reasonable. I wanted to demo them but there doesn't seem to be many polkies down my way so the demo never made it this far south. Maybe I can find a dealer that carries them. I can't wait to hear the dynaudio. I also think I will revist the Sonus Faber Cremona line.

polkatese

rdb2001 wrote: »

I have thought about the LSIm 707 and they are very reasonable. I wanted to demo them but there doesn't seem to be many polkies down my way so the demo never made it this far south. Maybe I can find a dealer that carries them. I can't wait to hear the dynaudio. I also think I will revist the Sonus Faber Cremona line.

I bought my Cremona in 2005 and haven't look back. Like you, I was looking for dual purpose use and the Cremona did it for me.

Conradicles

steveinaz wrote: »

Nothing matters more than speakers, and you will never stop chasing your tail until you make the commitment. Save for your "prized" speakers, let the other stuff wait awhile.

Well said.

nooshinjohn

Any Magnepan dealers down your way? For the coin, the MG 3.7's are superb, and with a tight, musical sub, can work exceptionally well in an HT rig to boot. I am running my MG-20's in HT right now, and soundtracks never sounded this good. Musical passages are delicate and detailed when they need to be, and with my sub, can explode all around you when called for. Amazing speakers for the buck.

The thrive on the kind of power you are looking to feed them with.

Face

Panels are the last kind of speaker I'd recommend for HT. With a sweet spot the size of a pea, it doesn't make sense unless there's only one chair in the room.

tonyb

Another speaker good for both HT/Music is the Legacy focus hd.