Turntable?

rromeo923
rromeo923 Posts: 1,513
edited March 2012 in 2 Channel Audio
I have a Sony LX350H I bought a couple of yrs ago for $75. It came with a no name cartridge.
Sounds Ok, plays my old vinyl. However I have been wondering if it can sound better.

A) Should I upgrade the cartridge and stylus/needle or

B) Should I look for another Turntable used

Suggestions??

Budget $200 max

Thanks!
I got static in my head
The reflected sound of everything
Post edited by rromeo923 on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • bmbguy
    bmbguy Posts: 416
    edited March 2012
    Just keep in mind that the turntable mechanics have nothing to do with the sound. The output cables are connected straight through to the cartridge -- so the 'sound' is solely dependent on the cartridge and stylus, and then the phono preamp/amplifier combo.

    All the rest is just there to spin the vinyl! Well, ok, the tonearm qualities can help the stylus track better, but you get the drift.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • SolidSqual
    SolidSqual Posts: 5,218
    edited March 2012
    bmbguy wrote: »
    Just keep in mind that the turntable mechanics have nothing to do with the sound.

    Are you insane? You couldn't be more wrong. The mechanic's of the TT have a significant if not equal effect on the sound as the cartridge.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bmbguy
    bmbguy Posts: 416
    edited March 2012
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    Are you insane? You couldn't be more wrong. The mechanic's of the TT have a significant if not equal effect on the sound as the cartridge.

    In your mind, obviously I am. I did say that the tonearm mechanics mattered in tracking accuracy. But electrically, the signal goes straight from the cartridge to the cables. I was just saying that there was no signal processing circuitry inside.

    Excuuuse me.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited March 2012
    You forgot about vibration and other aspects of the TT. THE mechanics may cause vibration.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • bmbguy
    bmbguy Posts: 416
    edited March 2012
    thsmith wrote: »
    You forgot about vibration and other aspects of the TT. THE mechanics may cause vibration.

    Yes, I stand brutally corrected. And you guys all know what I was trying to say.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • thsmith
    thsmith Posts: 6,082
    edited March 2012
    I agree there are a lot of factors to consider. $200 is not a lot to work with so I guess a cart will make the most improvement.

    If the op is serious about vinyl they need to save and get a good foundation in a TT then focus on phono stage and cart.

    Add an extra 0 to that 200 and you get in the ballpark, IMO.
    Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
    Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
    Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
    Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
    Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
    Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    edited March 2012
    bmbguy wrote: »
    Yes, I stand brutally corrected. And you guys all know what I was trying to say.

    I understood exactly what you told the OP and it was dead wrong.
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rromeo923
    rromeo923 Posts: 1,513
    edited March 2012
    :cheesygrin:Actually I was hoping to drop a 0 and find something at goodwill:cheesygrin:
    I got static in my head
    The reflected sound of everything
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    edited March 2012
    rromeo923 wrote: »
    :cheesygrin:Actually I was hoping to drop a 0 and find something at goodwill:cheesygrin:
    Good luck with that one!!!!!
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • markmarc
    markmarc Posts: 2,309
    edited March 2012
    Just add $250 to your budget and get a Rega RP1. That's a good starting point, then if you find yourself head over heels for vinyl you can start climbing the performance ladder.
    Review Site_ (((AudioPursuit)))
    Founder/Publisher Affordable$$Audio 2006-13.
    Former Staff Member TONEAudio
    2 Ch. System
    Amplifiers: Parasound Halo P6 pre, Vista Audio i34, Peachtree amp500, Adcom GFP-565 GFA-535ii, 545ii, 555ii
    Digital: SimAudio HAD230 DAC, iMac 20in/Amarra,
    Speakers: Paradigm Performa F75, Magnepan .7, Totem Model 1's, ACI Emerald XL, Celestion Si Stands. Totem Dreamcatcher sub
    Analog: Technics SL-J2 w/Pickering 3000D, SimAudio LP5.3 phono pre
    Cable/Wires: Cardas, AudioArt, Shunyata Venom 3
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 11,151
    edited March 2012
    I just went and looked at your TT and it is a nice one for sure if the belt is OK. Looks like a Technics..sl1200 too.

    I wouldn't upgrade the TT just yet, but your records conditions is a questionable factor now. Do you clean them before playing them? If you do check out the Shure 97ex or something like that from JR music world.com.


    Yard sale season is getting under-way and pawn shops sometimes have decent TTs. Craigs list in your area too.

    I bought my best TT from Good will for 15.00 but that was 15 years ago. A Technics SL-1400 in almost perfect shape. The arm doesn't return even though the return button is in the on position. It doesn't start and drop the needle by itself either. Other than that, I love it. I bought a Denon DL-160 from a member here,(starkiller) and a Phono pre-amp from another member here just a few weeks ago,(csmar01). The Denon cartridge is for really clean records. I have another more robust needle for questionable records.

    If your records are dirty and scratchy and pops alot, don't bother spending much if any more until your vinyl is upgraded too.

    Look in the for sale thread or post this want again in the wanted section.
    Good luck in your quest.
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2012
    That's true, there are a lot of old TTs out there that can often be had for a low price if you can do some maintenance. (Heck, I had an AK guy 'give' me an old DUAL he was no longer using a while back!) Then you can spend the bulk of your cash on the Cartridge and needle--which certainly are probably the most important elements for upgrades. Of course, your phono pre-amp and accurate speed, tracking and rumble are also factors.

    But don't let this take you down a "bottomless" rabbit hole because guys who spend 1000s on TTs are really into the law of extremely diminishing returns. Remember the better and better it gets the more you will be aware that you're listening to a surface that has contact with a needle (friction is inescapable as are surface noises). That needle has to touch "something"! And that something is moving, dragging on the needle even if the platter weighs a rather "impractical" and "astonishing" 50lbs and the motor could cut your grass "perfectly" while the platter speed is calculated by the Atomic Clock in Colorado? lol



    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AudioGenics
    AudioGenics Posts: 2,567
    edited March 2012
    cool...it is really fun to listen to different turntables and the tonearm- cartridge- cables combinations are endless.
    finding a great used one or from someone that is "upgrading" . happy hunting !
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited March 2012
    bmbguy wrote: »
    Just keep in mind that the turntable mechanics have nothing to do with the sound. The output cables are connected straight through to the cartridge -- so the 'sound' is solely dependent on the cartridge and stylus, and then the phono preamp/amplifier combo.

    All the rest is just there to spin the vinyl! Well, ok, the tonearm qualities can help the stylus track better, but you get the drift.

    I think I know what you are shooting at there, but, man, on it's face....that's an absurd statement. Again, I know what you mean....once the signal hits the stylus. There are all SORTS of things going on that do matter with a table, pretty much under the header of eliminating/mitigating unwanted vibrations.

    I'd also disagree about the law of diminishing returns. It's my opinion that in terms of a turntable....there is a very palpable difference the more you spend.

    I've said this a million times, unless you know what you are doing....most vintage tables aren't worth the effort. IMO.

    BDT
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • reeltrouble1
    reeltrouble1 Posts: 9,312
    edited March 2012
    economic theory in an electronic world, save the ritual, rejoice in the annulment.

    RT1
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,804
    edited March 2012
    SolidSqual wrote: »
    Are you insane? You couldn't be more wrong. The mechanic's of the TT have a significant if not equal effect on the sound as the cartridge.

    irrelevant/deleted. sorry.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,987
    edited March 2012
    bmbguy wrote: »
    Just keep in mind that the turntable mechanics have nothing to do with the sound. The output cables are connected straight through to the cartridge -- so the 'sound' is solely dependent on the cartridge and stylus, and then the phono preamp/amplifier combo.
    I think you should get around some Rega, Linn, SOTA, Mission fans. You MIGHT find "turntable mechanics have a LOT to do with the sound."

    Tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • gudnoyez
    gudnoyez Posts: 8,124
    edited March 2012
    I would keep looking in the for sale adds or craigslist, I just found a Dual CS5000 with a grado x1 cartridge with little play time on it looks in excellent condition going to check it out tommorow, guys asking $375 but might negoiate, I've always wanted one of those Duals. I found my CRS+ SDA's on craigslist and just got a sanus AFA audio Rack used I'am putting another 2 channel system together for those SDA's that Dual TT and a Sacd player and I'am done. If I get that Dual TT I would be a Happy Camper.
    Home Theater
    Parasound Halo A 31 OnkyoTX-NR838 Sony XBR55X850B 55" 4K RtiA9 Fronts CsiA6 Center RtiA3 Rears FxiA6 Side Surrounds Dual Psw 111's Oppo 105D Signal Ultra Speaker Cables & IC's Signal Magic Power Cable Technics SL Q300 Panamax MR4300 Audioquest Chocolate HDMI Cables Audioquest Forest USB Cable

    2 Channel
    Adcom 555II Vincent SA-T1 Marantz SA 15S2 Denon DR-M11 Clearaudio Bluemotion SDA 2.3tl's (Z) edition MIT Terminator II Speaker Cables & IC's Adcom 545II Adcom Gtp-450 Marantz CD5004 Technics M245X SDA 2B's, SDA CRS+

    Stuff for the Head
    JD LABS C5 Headphone Amplifier, Sennheiser HD 598, Polk Audio Buckle, Polk Audio Hinge, Velodyne vPulse, Bose IE2, Sennheiser CX 200 Street II, Sennheiser MX 365

    Shower & Off the beaten path Rigs
    Polk Audio Boom Swimmer, Polk Audio Urchin B)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • rromeo923
    rromeo923 Posts: 1,513
    edited March 2012
    Well I so far have bought a new cartridge/stylus AT95E and I am quite happy.

    I have a NAD 3080 Integrated running a Quad of Monitor 7's.

    Crosby Stills Nash and Young Deja Vu sounds amazing!! ( In a vintage 1970's way!)
    I got static in my head
    The reflected sound of everything
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited March 2012
    A NAD with four Monitor 7s. The "must" sound nice. Not an expert on TTs, but I do know that that AT cartridge is pretty good!

    Enjoy!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter