MW6511 / 6503 Anyone Using Modern Replacements?

PreCd
PreCd Posts: 786
edited March 2012 in Vintage Speakers
Has anyone out there purchased MW6511 or MW6503 modern replacement drivers from Polk? What is your experience with the driver if so?
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Post edited by PreCd on

Comments

  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,057
    edited February 2012
    I bought the MW6511 replacement. Sounds great to me. YMMV
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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited February 2012
    What made you change them out?

    A few months ago I was working with my turntable a bit diagnosing rumble. I applied more volume via the preamp and the rumble quickly got out of hand. The drivers, for lack of a better word, slapped against themselves a few times before I could get the volume down. I checked the resistance with an ohm meter and they checked ok. I then visually inspected them and they looked good all the way back to the magnet.

    They sound good but seem not to be able to handle a higher volume of music that has significant bass such as a kick drum as well now.
    I bought the MW6511 replacement. Sounds great to me. YMMV
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
    Adcom GFA-545
    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
  • DollarDave
    DollarDave Posts: 2,575
    edited February 2012
    As unlikely as it may seem that both cabinets would have this issue, but have you checked to ensure you have good cabinet seals?
  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited February 2012
    Hey Dave. I have run the driver pressure test and that works well..........3 seconds or more the drivers stand straight out. The right channel was where this happened so not both speakers. Also seemed only the MW6511 was the affected driver. However I was standing next to the right channel and freaked so bad I may have missed the left channel if it reacted in the same manner. Again it was in that state for less than a second but did not sound good at all.

    I rarely listen to music at high volumes, but some tracks at 11:00 or so I can hear it "bottoming out" for lack of a better term. Ever so slightly. Could be that on some tracks I just need to monitor how much power I let them have.
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
    Adcom GFA-545
    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
  • Mr. Bubbles
    Mr. Bubbles Posts: 736
    edited February 2012
    If it is only happening in one cabinet it would stand to reason there is an issue with that cabinet/ driver. First check for cabinet leaks (you have already done this I think). Don't forget to check the passive. Since it is effective in loading the cabinet if the spider or other suspension parts get torn or weak the cabinet will not load properly and let the drivers themselves get sloppy. It's not too uncommon for passives to crack or tear a spider around the cone/ foam area. If no luck you could swap the suspect driver to the other cabinet and see if it follows the driver or stays in the cabinet. If it follows the driver i would more closely inspect the suspension components of the driver. The parts do weaken over time, but it would be odd to have one driver in a system showing terribly worse signs than the rest.
    If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!


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  • NJPOLKER
    NJPOLKER Posts: 3,474
    edited February 2012
    Maybe try swapping the drivers around. Just be sure to mark everything so you know what is going where and what is doing what :wink:
  • michaeljhsda2
    michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,057
    edited February 2012
    PreCd wrote: »
    What made you change them out?

    The voice coil was rubbing (didn't notice it at the time I bought the speakers).
    SDA SRS 1.2TL's
    SDA 1C's w/Clarity Cap ESA; PA, Mills, RD0194-1's
    SDA 2B TL's w/RD0198-1's
    Yaqin MC-30L integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited February 2012
    not knowing about your pre and amp, i'd venture a guess that at 11 0'clock on the volume, either your amp is at the limit or your spkrs..
  • TennMan
    TennMan Posts: 1,232
    edited February 2012
    PreCd wrote: »
    I rarely listen to music at high volumes, but some tracks at 11:00 or so I can hear it "bottoming out" for lack of a better term. Ever so slightly. Could be that on some tracks I just need to monitor how much power I let them have.
    You should check your drivers, binding cup and cabinets to be sure they all have a tight seal. The drivers are dampened by air trapped inside the cabinets to keep them from bottoming out when driven hard. The air trapped inside the cabinets is also what couples the drivers to the passive radiator to produce better bass. Have you performed the "push test" to determine if you have an air leak?
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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited February 2012
    TennMan:

    I have performed the test but will do it again. Last time I did that the drivers stayed extended 3 seconds or so. I have replaced the seals on all the drivers and radiator with those from brgman. However not the tweeter seals. It seems there is a recurring mantra in this thread to check my cabinet seals. Will do!
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
    Adcom GFA-545
    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited February 2012
    Adcom GFA-555 and GFP-565.
    sda2mike wrote: »
    not knowing about your pre and amp, i'd venture a guess that at 11 0'clock on the volume, either your amp is at the limit or your spkrs..
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
    Adcom GFA-545
    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
  • sda2mike
    sda2mike Posts: 3,131
    edited February 2012
    PreCd wrote: »
    Adcom GFA-555 and GFP-565.

    i assume your 565 doesn't have gain controls? i have a 555 as well..i've never gone higher than 11...usually my limit is abt 1030;)..i wonder if it's a case of too much juice? hopefully someone else will know more.
  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited February 2012
    I do not know if the Adcom GFP-565 provides gain control however it may be that it is just too much juice. Thanks Mike.
    sda2mike wrote: »
    i assume your 565 doesn't have gain controls? i have a 555 as well..i've never gone higher than 11...usually my limit is abt 1030;)..i wonder if it's a case of too much juice? hopefully someone else will know more.
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
    Adcom GFA-545
    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
  • Mr. Bubbles
    Mr. Bubbles Posts: 736
    edited February 2012
    I am not sure exactly which speaker model we are discussing here but i use the Adcom GFP-565II and GFA-555II on my SRS's and readily hit 11-11:30 with no problem. I keep the tone controls bypassed most of the time but on some occasions I do engage them and make slight increases/ decreases to the tone controls. Tone controls could have a lot to do with an issue like this.
    If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of Progress?!


    Monitor 5Jr, Monitor 5, RTA12, RTA 15TL, SDA 2A, 1c, SRS 2, 1.2TL, CRS, Atrium.
  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited February 2012
    I did not mention that did I? Really did not mean for this thread to turn into a troubleshooting thread. I really wanted to know if anyone was using the modern drivers in their speakers, specifically the SDA2Bs. I wanted to know more about the quality of the build, when they were manufactured, how they sounded, etc.....

    But to answer your question about the speaker in question it is a 2B.
    I am not sure exactly which speaker model we are discussing here but i use the Adcom GFP-565II and GFA-555II on my SRS's and readily hit 11-11:30 with no problem. I keep the tone controls bypassed most of the time but on some occasions I do engage them and make slight increases/ decreases to the tone controls. Tone controls could have a lot to do with an issue like this.
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
    Adcom GFA-545
    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
  • inspiredsports
    inspiredsports Posts: 5,505
    edited February 2012
    I've not heard new replacement 6511's or 6503's, but did a lot of testing a couple of years ago with 6509's (4 in each cabinet in my SDA SRS 2's).

    I tried different combinations:
    - All 8 Vintage
    - All 8 New Replacement
    - 4 new in one channel, 4 vintage in the other channel
    - all stereo new, all dimensional old
    - all dimensional new, all stereo old.

    In all cases I felt the newer drivers sounded "muted" or "veiled". The best sounding scenario when using new was when they were in the dimensional positions (which makes sense considering less contribution to the overall volume there).

    In fairness, I probably did not have enough hours on the new drivers (about 50 hours) to achieve maximum mechanical break in.

    Also, MW6509's have different inherent design values than the 6503's and 6511's. The 6503's and 6511's are "better" speakers the new may not vary from the old as much as in my 6509 experiments.

    Just my 2 cents, but I wound up going with all vintage and selling off the new replacements I'd obtained. Another point about vintage is the butyl rubber surrounds don't deteriorate so there is little downside to vintage if the coils are OK and you glue the magnets to prevent shift.
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  • PreCd
    PreCd Posts: 786
    edited February 2012
    That is great to know and exactly what I was looking for. Polk has decent prices for members on the drivers however I want to do the right thing.

    Hopefully we will hear from some others.


    I've not heard new replacement 6511's or 6503's, but did a lot of testing a couple of years ago with 6509's (4 in each cabinet in my SDA SRS 2's).

    I tried different combinations:
    - All 8 Vintage
    - All 8 New Replacement
    - 4 new in one channel, 4 vintage in the other channel
    - all stereo new, all dimensional old
    - all dimensional new, all stereo old.

    In all cases I felt the newer drivers sounded "muted" or "veiled". The best sounding scenario when using new was when they were in the dimensional positions (which makes sense considering less contribution to the overall volume there).

    In fairness, I probably did not have enough hours on the new drivers (about 50 hours) to achieve maximum mechanical break in.

    Also, MW6509's have different inherent design values than the 6503's and 6511's. The 6503's and 6511's are "better" speakers the new may not vary from the old as much as in my 6509 experiments.

    Just my 2 cents, but I wound up going with all vintage and selling off the new replacements I'd obtained. Another point about vintage is the butyl rubber surrounds don't deteriorate so there is little downside to vintage if the coils are OK and you glue the magnets to prevent shift.
    SDA2BTL
    Marantz CD5004
    Adcom GFA-545
    Bottlehead Quickie Tube Preamp
  • frickingruvin
    frickingruvin Posts: 10
    edited February 2012
    I just replaced a 6503 in my 2Bs, and it sounds good-I'm sure it will improve after it fully breaks in...
  • gdb
    gdb Posts: 6,012
    edited February 2012
    Any chance that the PR got too loose/compliant and failed to offer the needed resistance and excursion limit to the MW driver? Did /does it have a button weight? Did it come off?
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 47,222
    edited March 2012
    PreCd, you've got a bad driver, plain and simple. No need to look any further.

    The specs for the new drivers are suppose to be exactly the same as the originals. However, the dust cap and cone surface are slightly different.
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  • evhudsons
    evhudsons Posts: 1,161
    edited March 2012
    I have both my vintage original as well as an ebay snag and also the newer polk 6510, 6511, and 6503

    my originals initially sound better but I am assuming they have 20 years of use which has improved their sound. The newer ones are just now starting to loosen up a bit and it's hard to tell the difference. To be opinionated, I can't tell now whether the old or new is better, but they are a bit different. I found it more important to match the 6511/6510 as opposed to the 6511/6503 than old versus new.

    I did a press test but forgot to seal the passive radiator holes that are exposed when I take the grill cover off. I'll try it again putting the screws back in without the cover.

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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,621
    edited March 2012
    I agree with F1nut.

    I heard an A/B comparison in my man cave with side by side SDA-CRS's. One set old and one set with new drivers. The new drivers were tighter with more authority by far. Now in 30 years or less, I'm sure they will be like the old originals too.

    I say if your going to replace one, try to replace all.

    If $ is a concern, keep checking ebay and this forum everyday if possible to get just what you need..
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.
  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,666
    edited March 2012
    I compared broken in (100 hours of use) new version MW6510's, MW6511's, and MW6503's to the originals and did not hear a difference. The electrical specifications of the new drivers are different, but this was expected since some adjustment had to be made to account for differences in the mechanical properties of the materials used in the original and new drivers.

    The only thing I do not like about the new drivers is that they do not match the appearance of the originals (pictures here).
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  • Tony M
    Tony M Posts: 10,621
    edited March 2012
    I would guess, concerning the obove listening tests, that it should be OK to mix em up in their cabinets. If DarqueKnight didn't hear a difference, it is almost a given we wouldn't either. I wouldn't hesitate to mix and match newer replacements where they belong now.

    That's better then having to replace all MW'ers like I thought might be the case.

    Myself and two others without a doubt know there is a major difference when the replacements are really new. I don't think I have (I think ChrisD didn't have hardly any time on them when I bought them from him) 3 more hrs. on them since I bought them.

    I kinda let another set of SDA-CRS's slip through my hands because of anger/retaliation reasons a few weeks ago. If and when I get some time on these I own and another set, I'll do another A/B test. God, I hope I live that long....LOL
    Most people just listen to music and watch movies. I EXPERIENCE them.