My room.

Phasewolf

OK I am for now done with the mods on my Polk 2.3 but I am still unhappy with what I am hearing so I am going too start working on my room.

Now for the issues with the room and there are a lot. The floor is uncovered concrete and well that is the least of the issues. Next are the walls the are not drywall but are thin fake wood panel which is nail too the studs. The room is 11x20 but is open too the kitchen which makes it 20x20 yes I know not a good thing. Plus too make it worse the kitchen cupboard backs are kind of a make shift wall between the 2 rooms but there backed by also by yes you guessed it the same panel that is on the walls.

Also the kitchen is open too the rest of the home and there is no way too seal it off.

Now this weekend I plan too rip off the panel and install drywall. So I will ask this what else can I do too help my broken room too.sound better there is all most no bass.
If I use a some drapery from the floor too the ceiling and placed it across the room where there should be a wall would this help or would it be a lost cause.

sheathensemble

I don't know if you have the product in the states... but look for some roxul safe and sound( Really cheap acoustic treatment). If you can't find it, get some owens corning or some type of rock wool insulation that is designed for acoustical purposes and build acoustic panels. If you go to gearslutz.com you can find tonnes of threads on the topic and how to build them yourself. Acoustic treatment made the biggest difference for me. If it's done correctly your imaging, bass and over all detail will improve by a truely scary amount.

Also just replacing that wood panel crap with dry wall will make a huge difference. I had a setup in a room lined with that stuff and the wall vibrations were terrible! I hated that room with a passion. You can even get acoustical dry wall... or you could even put the acoustic insulation in the wall before you install your new dry wall... you have options.

Cheers, Sheath

Phasewolf

Yes I can get that local. I did some testing on my room and well I have a 20db peak from 47hz to 80hz plus :eek: So that is what I need too deal with as of now once I take care of that I will be a lot better off. I also have a 12db null at 44hz to try and fix.

sheathensemble

Phasewolf wrote: »

I did some testing on my room and well I have a 20db peak from 47hz to 80hz

Sounds like you have the same problem as all the people who slam a sub in their car these days... no wait they do that on purpose...



Check here for info on the acoustic insulation products. Safe and sound is under Roxul. It is very competitive with the rest of the products and unlike fiber glass it is fire resistant. It's also ridiculously cheap!



http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm


Check this video too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKZd1ZTjvzE


Here's a pick of some of the stuff I made... don't look half bad...

Phasewolf

I looked into it last night. I am going to make some 16x16x48 and put them along the wall ceiling boundary on the back and front wall so in total it will be 16" by 16" by 11' and there will be two like that.

Phasewolf

I need to re-measure the room I still have a hard time buying that its that much of a peak. Something is just not correct.

sheathensemble

Also consider how the 2.3's are positioned, maybe they're to close to the wall? I don't know your speakers, I have never even seen a set in person... So it's just a thought.

I really think that it will be fine once you put up dry wall... Those walls you have cause some very weird phenomenon.

Phasewolf

When I did the check I did not even test the 2.3's so its a non issue as of now but something I need too look into soon.

audio_alan

Treating the ceiling/wall boundry is a good idea, but the walls are very important as well. You can add a LOT of bass traps before it becomes too much. If you have a "listening position", you should also (at a minimum) treat the first reflection points.

Just treating the ceiling/wall boundries won't give you the results you're looking for, imo.

sheathensemble

audio_alan wrote: »

Treating the ceiling/wall boundry is a good idea, but the walls are very important as well. You can add a LOT of bass traps before it becomes too much. If you have a "listening position", you should also (at a minimum) treat the first reflection points.

Just treating the ceiling/wall boundries won't give you the results you're looking for, imo.

I have found this to be true with every setup I have had... with the exception of SDA's. I have SDA 1c's; I have found that they perform best with out the first reflection points covered. It could be specific to the room I am in though. But I must say from my personal experience that treating the first reflection points kills the SDA effect. The SDA effect seems to me, to be dramatically wider and more engulfing with out panels on the first reflection points. Once again, this is just my personal experience and it is INFO that could be specific to the room I have mine setup in. Other than the first reflection points I have not found any irregularities with the SDA 1c's and acoustic treatment.

I think that you would be best to build panels... at least 8 ( Plus the arrangement you have already planned). Try different placement and see what works best.

audio_alan

You bring up a good point, sheathensemble. Perhaps SDA's will perform better without sound panels at the first reflection points. It's worth testing for sure. I'd say it would be wise to test most of your panels in different locations before you permanently mount them. That aside, I think my advice of treating more than just the celing/wall boundry is a good idea...

Phasewolf

I am getting ready to start ordering rockwool to build panels and I guess I will need to play and see how it goes and where I end up putting them. Time will tell but I have some ideas on what I need to do and where I want to go with this. Because of the room the sda's are to close to the sidewalls and that really plays with them. But this is the only room I can place them so I am stuck

PreCd

I wish I could help this room a bit. The only place I have for my system is not square. Or rectangular. When we built the house it was a covered section on the deck and we decided to make it living area instead. Good move but I have a little trouble with the big SDA2Bs in there. If I listen at reference levels things get a little crazy. Any suggestions to improve the sound in a room with these dimensions?


The open area in the outside lines are doors. The large area are where french doors reside and the small open area just a standard 36 incher.

Phasewolf

A large part of the issue I am having is the fact the Room is 22x19 sounds good but its broken up into two 11x19 rooms one being the kitchen and the only wall the speakers can go on is the 11' wide the other wall is completely useless as it's open to the kitchen on one side and the other side has a fireplace and a doorwall.

In the end I am stuck basically there is no winning this fight.

audio_alan

Try not to get too discouraged. A lot of people have less than optimal rooms. But, with the proper acoustic treatments, badly shaped rooms can sound decent.

To start with, put bass traps in all the corners. After that, starting putting traps on the walls (especially the angled wall) to stop reflections. The deeper the traps, the better, and space them an equal distance from the wall as the traps are deep.

Building/buying a diffuser for that rear wall (opposite the speakers) might help as well.

PreCd

I have been pondering how much that would help a room like mine. If it would help I would build some bass traps. Here is one I found on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iyYUpkpL0gw

Looks easy enough. The video says to put them floor to ceiling in each corner. Is that true?

audio_alan wrote: »

Try not to get too discouraged. A lot of people have less than optimal rooms. But, with the proper acoustic treatments, badly shaped rooms can sound decent.

To start with, put bass traps in all the corners. After that, starting putting traps on the walls (especially the angled wall) to stop reflections. The deeper the traps, the better, and space them an equal distance from the wall as the traps are deep.

Building/buying a diffuser for that rear wall (opposite the speakers) might help as well.

PreCd

Know the feeling! I have a large room that would be perfect when my oldest finishes college and flies away from the roost. It will be a sad but happy day.

Phasewolf wrote: »

A large part of the issue I am having is the fact the Room is 22x19 sounds good but its broken up into two 11x19 rooms one being the kitchen and the only wall the speakers can go on is the 11' wide the other wall is completely useless as it's open to the kitchen on one side and the other side has a fireplace and a doorwall.

In the end I am stuck basically there is no winning this fight.

audio_alan

PreCd wrote: »

I have been pondering how much that would help a room like mine. If it would help I would build some bass traps. Here is one I found on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=iyYUpkpL0gw

Looks easy enough. The video says to put them floor to ceiling in each corner. Is that true?

Yep, those plans would work just fine. Also, that's correct - the more of the corners you can cover, the more you will knock down the bass that gathers in those corners. For even better performance in the corners, build a "super chunk" trap. Basically you cut triangle wedges of OC703 or OC705, completely filling the corners. They are more expensive than traps that just straddle the corners (depending on thickness), but they are more effective as well.

Acoustic treatment is one of the most important things you can do...

PreCd

Thanks for the suggestions....I am all for learning.

I have been reading as time permits and noticed that bass traps are not the only factor in making your room the best it can be. In your opinion, and others who might want to chime in, what would be the minimum bass traps you would install in my room? Then after that what else would you suggest?

I realize that some of this will be trial and error but I also think that there has to be a good starting point. You know a basic placement that one would do 1st in any room.

audio_alan wrote: »

Yep, those plans would work just fine. Also, that's correct - the more of the corners you can cover, the more you will knock down the bass that gathers in those corners. For even better performance in the corners, build a "super chunk" trap. Basically you cut triangle wedges of OC703 or OC705, completely filling the corners. They are more expensive than traps that just straddle the corners (depending on thickness), but they are more effective as well.

Acoustic treatment is one of the most important things you can do...

PreCd

I have been looking around at the Roxul products and found 2 that look promising.

Would you use this: http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Roxul-Rockboard-60-Case-of-6--RB60.html

Or this: http://www.atsacoustics.com/item--Roxul-Acoustical-Fire-Batts-Mineral-Wool-2-inch-Case-of-6--1006.html

Joe08867

I would trap the corner to the right of the speakers and possibly to the right of where you are sitting.

You really can't trap the other walls effectively.

Do you have the speakers set up to mimic the distance from each other as much as they are from you? They should be about 9ft apart maybe even a bit less. I have found that rooms with a wedge shape like yours, like speakers a bit closer to each other than normal.

Do you have any floor covering at all? It sounds like your hearing to much reflection and a throw rug in front of the speakers would kill tons of it.

Also Drapery on the walls would help with slapback and reflection. They don't need to be huge but they need to be heavy and porous.

PreCd

First off thanks to Phasewolf for letting me butt in on this thread. Even though it was about his room I believe we both can learn from sharing it!

Thanks for the suggestions on trap placement. So none behind the speakers or my gear? If not then I was going to order way too much Roxul! I was looking at 12 pieces which would make 12 4' traps or a few less and a few triangles for the corners. I was thinking about making two traps for the french doors, which would not be that hard to hang, and transfer them on and off when I wanted. That left speaker is pointed at them at an angle.

My speakers are approx. 7 - 8 feet apart and that is about as good as I can get them as far as width apart. I have not considered moving them in closer to each other but am willing to try it so thanks for that bit of info.

The room is carpet so I have that part covered........no pun intended. No draperies though. Could I not just place a couple of traps up instead of draperies?

Joe08867 wrote: »

I would trap the corner to the right of the speakers and possibly to the right of where you are sitting.

You really can't trap the other walls effectively.

Do you have the speakers set up to mimic the distance from each other as much as they are from you? They should be about 9ft apart maybe even a bit less. I have found that rooms with a wedge shape like yours, like speakers a bit closer to each other than normal.

Do you have any floor covering at all? It sounds like your hearing to much reflection and a throw rug in front of the speakers would kill tons of it.

Also Drapery on the walls would help with slapback and reflection. They don't need to be huge but they need to be heavy and porous.

Phasewolf

One thing you could do is place a bunch of thick traps on the back wall and then hang drapery over them decrease wife agro factor. I may go that way..

PreCd

Had not thought about the draperies and bass traps Phasewolf. Hey, if she ain't happy no one is right!

I have been shopping around for Roxul AFB and have found decent prices but have also found that the shipping to me is as high as the material itself.

So I checked Lowes and found this:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_89017-1278-RXSS323_0__?productId=3285120&Ntt=roxul&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Droxul&facetInfo=

I am going to look at the Roxul site to compare it with the AFB but I bet it would work. I would only have to find a 3 inch deep board.

Phasewolf

I would look at there site and see if you can find a local dealer that can order what you need that is what I want to do. If you know a local builder ask where is get his stuff at and try there.

PreCd

Phasewolf:

I ended up ordering some Safe n Sound from Lowes. The specs for sound dampening are excellent and it will suffice for what we are wanting to do. Should be next week so I can start building the traps next weekend.

Phasewolf

Cool let me know how it goes my Lowes carries it and is a block away I will look into getting some the only issue I see is how floppy it is. Can't wait too see pics.

PreCd

I will let you know. As for the floppiness of the material if it stands up in the wall then it will stand up in the frames. I am going to cover the frames in burlap pulling tight of course. I don't foresee a problem.

Phasewolf wrote: »

Cool let me know how it goes my Lowes carries it and is a block away I will look into getting some the only issue I see is how floppy it is. Can't wait too see pics.

PreCd

Got started on my bass traps today. I used 1x3 inch furring strips. Ended up using wood glue and two screws at each corner. I have saw videos where only staples were used but I went the screw route. It will be there forever. They measure 47 x 23 inside the frame. Here they are:

audio_alan

Good start. I look forward to seeing the final product, how you installed them, and what your impressions are.

I'm not sure how many you are planning on making, but keep in mind that you'll need to make several of them to really make a dramatic improvement. Just 2 or 3 in a room won't really cut it... unless those 2 or 3 have very large dimensions.

PreCd

I am looking forward to the finished product also. At this time I have 4 built and will probably get 5 ready for this weekend providing the burlap I ordered gets delivered. That has been shipped so I would assume that by this weekend I will have finished panels.

I did place 2 of them with rockwool inserted behind my speakers and it did make a difference so I am looking forward to experimenting!

audio_alan wrote: »

Good start. I look forward to seeing the final product, how you installed them, and what your impressions are.

I'm not sure how many you are planning on making, but keep in mind that you'll need to make several of them to really make a dramatic improvement. Just 2 or 3 in a room won't really cut it... unless those 2 or 3 have very large dimensions.