Flag lowered for Whitney

Toolfan66

leroyjr1 wrote: »

While everyone looks at the bad in her and Michael Jackson's life you might also want to look at yourself as no one is perfect

Fixed it!!


Some of you people really need a life.. Who really gives a crap if they lower the flag??

Fongolio

leroyjr1 wrote: »

While everyone looks at the bad in her and Michael Jackson's life you might also want to look at the millions of dollars and time put in helping the needy. Look at the Charities these musicians and actors have.

Now that right there is the first good reason I've heard for it yet. Yes, she had her problems and yes, she had amazing talent but my belief is that any flag flown at half mast should be to honor a person who has made a significant contribution to the betterment of humanity. I'm not sure that #1 records qualifies. I AM sure that a fallen soldier, firefighter or police officer does.

snow

tonyb wrote: »

I don't think anyone has a problem with that Steve, every state has famous people home grown that they would honor should they pass. It's the lack of honor to others more deserving that grabs people's gonads. Whitney, Michael Jackson, congressmen and women, CEO of Apple, what makes their life worth anymore than mine, yours, or someone else ?

Recognizing people for their accomplishments, yeah cool, run with it. But holding them up like they are above everyone else is silly in my book. You have to keep things in perspective is all I'm saying. A life should matter regardless if your famous, a CEO, a housewife, or a janitor. It's about respect for all life, not just some deemed relevant.

I agree with you Tony that everyone's life should matter no matter their vocation fame or lack of it and hopefully NJ is recognizing Whitney not just because she was a star but also because of her deeds as an humanitarian, post #24 outlines some of this work, my biggest issue with some of the things said was how people portrayed her as worthless because of her drug use, no doubt she made some bad choices and in the end those choices cost her her life. I don't honestly know if I was cast into the limelight with all the pressures that fame brings whether or not I wouldndt become addicted to something to escape. She had a good heart and cared about others that is what I see.

Certainly others should be recognized for their contributions also and no you should not have to be famous to get this recognition.



REGARDS SNOW

snow

Fongolio wrote: »

Now that right there is the first good reason I've heard for it yet. Yes, she had her problems and yes, she had amazing talent but my belief is that any flag flown at half mast should be to honor a person who has made a significant contribution to the betterment of humanity. I'm not sure that #1 records qualifies. I AM sure that a fallen soldier, firefighter or police officer does.

Read post #24 that outlines some of her contributions to the betterment of humanity and yes I agree that just having talent and selling records shouldndt qualify you but neither should your personal decision to use drugs automatically disqualify you as a recipient either IMHO. She wasn't perfect but she wasn't a person that committed heinous crimes either just a lost soul that sought refuge in substances that eventually cost her her life.



REGARDS SNOW

TECHNOKID

Interesting read;

Governor Wrong to Have Flag Lowered to Half
Staff for Celebrities

Rifle salutes, aircraft flyovers, and half-staffed flags are among those honors and they should not be on the public menu.

It is eminently important that we protect the tributes that have become part of the military and public service fabric over the past two centuries. They are part of our tradition and should not be for sale at any price. They should not be available to take, and they should not be available to give.

The manner in which we lay the valorous when they fall helps define how we should carry ourselves while we live.

Lowering the flag to half staff should be reserved only for those who perish as a result of public duty and service, protecting our nation and the Constitution, and for those who served as formal leaders and dignitaries.

This practice must stop.

Full article; http://www.njlawman.com/Editorials/008-flag-half-mast.htm

tonyb

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not advocating Whitney was a crack **** to the end and all her good has been outweighed by the bad. As others have said, lowering the flag isn't ment for such things.

Sure she gave to charity, did alot of work for charities.....as does thousands of other Americans who's names you'll never know. Does that put her in the lowering of the flag catagory ? Not in my book. Because she was a singer with an incredible voice ? No, can't say that puts her in the catagory either. So what is it exactly that puts her in the same catagory as those who gave their lives for this country, or the police, firefighters, and victims of 9-11 ? Thats all I want to know.

Dennis Gardner

They lowered it for Clarence Clemons and all he did was blow a little horn now and then.......

tonyb

Didn't agree on that one too....and I love Clarence.

Look, in the grand scheme of things, is this worth getting our panties twisted up in a knot ? No....my only point is, that lowering the flag for celebs, for me anyway, lessens the respect given to the more deserving.

danger boy

Half Staff

According to American literature although military tradition indicates that "half-mast" is generally reserved to usage aboard a ship, where flags are typically flown from masts.

thesurfer

Well, you can look at this many ways, Its like that state is proud she was one of there own,, Then on the other hand, its the teenagers we need to be more worried about, They see it as this, WoW, She died of an OD, So doing drugs aint that bad, Ive got a 15 year old daughter who asked me, Why would they do this for someone who is supposed to be a role model, and that same role model dies of a OD of drugs, just one of the things she preached about not to do?? As far as dealing with that life style, thats a crutch, as you do what you do, no one can protect you from yourself, Just my OP.

snow

thesurfer wrote: »

Well, you can look at this many ways, Its like that state is proud she was one of there own,, Then on the other hand, its the teenagers we need to be more worried about, They see it as this, WoW, She died of an OD, So doing drugs aint that bad, Ive got a 15 year old daughter who asked me, Why would they do this for someone who is supposed to be a role model, and that same role model dies of a OD of drugs, just one of the things she preached about not to do?? As far as dealing with that life style, thats a crutch, as you do what you do, no one can protect you from yourself, Just my OP.

That whole scenario is so ludicrous its funny. First off most teenagers have never even heard of Whitney Houston let alone listen to her music so the idea of her being a role model to teenagers today is laughable at best, secondly any kid who would see an OD as WOW so doing drugs ain't that bad hey the worst could happen is I will die is in need of a brain transplant, if anything it would have the exact opposite effect.



REGARDS SNOW

gdb

Little tip: a LOT of musicians composed, performed and recorded their music on drugs ! A lot also died because of drugs.It almost seems to go with the territory....except in the strange case of Ted Nugent. (supposedly) RIP Jim, Jimi & Janice.

Check it out, anyone you admire listed ??


http://rateyourmusic.com/list/tiliar/drug_related_death_of_musicians

thesurfer

snow wrote: »

That whole scenario is so ludicrous its funny. First off most teenagers have never even heard of Whitney Houston let alone listen to her music so the idea of her being a role model to teenagers today is laughable at best, secondly any kid who would see an OD as WOW so doing drugs ain't that bad hey the worst could happen is I will die is in need of a brain transplant, if anything it would have the exact opposite effect.



REGARDS SNOW

Get real, to say todays youth has no idea who she was is a joke, you defend her legacy yet claim she was not that popular??? Heck, kids nowa days know who frank sinatra was, I love Zeppelins music, they broke up, cause there drummer had a drinking problem and died choking on his puke, he was sadly a drunk, nothing to honor, or be proud of.

thesurfer

gdb wrote: »

Little tip: a LOT of musicians composed, performed and recorded their music on drugs ! A lot also died because of drugs.It almost seems to go with the territory....except in the strange case of Ted Nugent. (supposedly) RIP Jim, Jimi & Janice.

Check it out, anyone you admire listed ??


http://rateyourmusic.com/list/tiliar/drug_related_death_of_musicians

Still does not make it right, my question is, did they get the half flag treatment??? and most of them did much more than she did,

Toolfan66

How many of you really drive around town and notice a flag at half mast??

And also do you really believe all police officers, firemen, and the men and woman in service are perfect and never done drugs or anything else wrong? Ohh because it's not on paper or in the media we just over look this little fact, I get it now!! Let me change my way of thinking!!!

inspiredsports

chumlie wrote: »

Just have to vent a little here. While i do agree that Whitney Housten is a good singer. I do not agree with Gov. Christie lowering N.J. flags to half-staff on saturday to honor her. I do believe there are alot more people that deserve this honor more than her. How about all that have fallen in two wars. This celebraty worship is going just a bit to far in my opinion.

Agreed. And why not just leave it at half mast? It seems one of these glorified drug addicts dies almost every day.

snow

thesurfer wrote: »

Get real, to say todays youth has no idea who she was is a joke, you defend her legacy yet claim she was not that popular??? Heck, kids nowa days know who frank sinatra was, I love Zeppelins music, they broke up, cause there drummer had a drinking problem and died choking on his puke, he was sadly a drunk, nothing to honor, or be proud of.

I never said she wasn't popular just not among'st kids today, most kids don't listen to the type of music she sang and yes most kids know nothing about her, hell most kids today couldndt tell you Buzz Aldrin was either. You mention the drummer for Led Zeppelin and say he was a drunk like that defined who he was, sorry but that doesn't work for me.



REGARDS SNOW

snow

inspiredsports wrote: »

Agreed. And why not just leave it at half mast? It seems one of these glorified drug addicts dies almost every day.

Sad I used to respect you. Whitney's drug addiction does not define who she was as a person, if drug addiction alcoholism cancer aids or any other illness in your mind makes someone less human than you or less worthy, than your a sorry selfish human being. To imply that you are somehow better than she was as a fellow human because you were fortunate enough to have never became addicted is sad indeed, it isn't like she was out robbing people to get high.


REGARDS SNOW

snow

Toolfan66 wrote: »

How many of you really drive around town and notice a flag at half mast??

And also do you really believe all police officers, firemen, and the men and woman in service are perfect and never done drugs or anything else wrong? Ohh because it's not on paper or in the media we just over look this little fact, I get it now!! Let me change my way of thinking!!!

Larry most not all but most of the people in this thread claiming to be holier than thou and far superior as human beings because they don't suffer from drug addiction are weak insecure hypocrites who make themselves feel better by putting others down thereby raising their own self worth up in their weak little minds. They speak of war heroes, most don't know that a huge amount of civil war vets after the war ended were morphine addicts, and lots of world war ll vets who came back addicted to speed and on and on, I suppose that made their sacrifices non valid just like Whitney's efforts to help children are of no value because she died of a drug overdose and her being addicted wipes out any possible good in their minds.

I give up on this subject, I am not going to convince anyone who has this mentality otherwise.



REGARDS SNOW

inspiredsports

snow wrote: »

Sad I used to respect you. Whitney's drug addiction does not define who she was as a person, if drug addiction alcoholism cancer aids or any other illness in your mind makes someone less human than you or less worthy, than your a sorry selfish human being. To imply that you are somehow better than she was as a fellow human because you were fortunate enough to have never became addicted is sad indeed, it isn't like she was out robbing people to get high.


REGARDS SNOW

This has nothing to do with me being "selfish" or "more worthy" than someone else. I just don't believe we need to lower any flag anywhere for crack whores.

Veterans, heads-of-state; yes.

Performers whether they were crack whores or not; not so much.

And for the record, I still respect your opinions

WilliamM2

snow wrote: »

Sad I used to respect you. Whitney's drug addiction does not define who she was as a person, if drug addiction alcoholism cancer aids or any other illness in your mind makes someone less human than you or less worthy, than your a sorry selfish human being.

I wish drug and alcohol addiction would quit being compared to real diseases like cancer.

My little brother is a drug addict, and he is less than human. You wouldn't believe the things he has done to the family over the years, to feed his addiction. After a while, you no longer care. Luckily he is in prison again. Sadly he will be out in only 3 years. Maybe he can take out several more loans in his 8 year old sons name, steal some more of his mother's social security checks, or break into his grandmother's house when she leaves for Florida for the winter. Your right, he's not less worthy, he has a disease.:rolleyes:

George Grand

chumlie wrote: »

Let me put this on one post so i don't upset George. George; If my post count bothers you so much, hit the ignore button and i'll be gone.

You're a post **** trying to bring this forum down to your level. The drivel you bring to the table will never be an asset to this forum.

snow

inspiredsports wrote: »

This has nothing to do with me being "selfish" or "more worthy" than someone else. I just don't believe we need to lower any flag anywhere for crack whores.

Veterans, heads-of-state; yes.

Performers whether they were crack whores or not; not so much.

And for the record, I still respect your opinions

Now she is a **** too? WOW Hopefully someday you will grow up to be a man you have a ways to go yet.



REGARDS SNOW

BeefJerky

snow wrote: »

Sad I used to respect you. Whitney's drug addiction does not define who she was as a person, if drug addiction alcoholism cancer aids or any other illness in your mind makes someone less human than you or less worthy, than your a sorry selfish human being. To imply that you are somehow better than she was as a fellow human because you were fortunate enough to have never became addicted is sad indeed, it isn't like she was out robbing people to get high.


REGARDS SNOW

WilliamM2 wrote: »

I wish drug and alcohol addiction would quit being compared to real diseases like cancer.

My little brother is a drug addict, and he is less than human. You wouldn't believe the things he has done to the family over the years, to feed his addiction. After a while, you no longer care. Luckily he is in prison again. Sadly he will be out in only 3 years. Maybe he can take out several more loans in his 8 year old sons name, steal some more of his mother's social security checks, or break into his grandmother's house when she leaves for Florida for the winter. Your right, he's not less worthy, he has a disease.:rolleyes:

Seriously. Comparing drug addiction/alcoholism to cancer or AIDS is a joke. The first two are choices, cancer is absolutely not a choice. While AIDS can be had due to stupid things, it can also come from things such as contaminated blood transfusions or other hospital apparatus.

I can say for a fact that my father, aunt and best friend did not choose to have cancer and die from it.

Snow, you said you lost respect for another poster, but then lower yourself to a comment like that. Well, I have no respect for you at this point either.

thesurfer

Toolfan66 wrote: »

How many of you really drive around town and notice a flag at half mast??

And also do you really believe all police officers, firemen, and the men and woman in service are perfect and never done drugs or anything else wrong? Ohh because it's not on paper or in the media we just over look this little fact, I get it now!! Let me change my way of thinking!!!

The folks you speak of werent in the public eye to such a degree as she was, celebrating someone who died using drugs to such a degree, makes you wonder whats next, or for that matter, how much worse can it get, dont worry, its coming.

thesurfer

George Grand wrote: »

You're a post **** trying to bring this forum down to your level. The drivel you bring to the table will never be an asset to this forum.

ROTFL, classic, Mr Grand,

snow

BeefJerky wrote: »

Seriously. Comparing drug addiction/alcoholism to cancer or AIDS is a joke. The first two are choices, cancer is absolutely not a choice. While AIDS can be had due to stupid things, it can also come from things such as contaminated blood transfusions or other hospital apparatus.

I can say for a fact that my father, aunt and best friend did not choose to have cancer and die from it.

Snow, you said you lost respect for another poster, but then lower yourself to a comment like that. Well, I have no respect for you at this point either.

I could care less whether you respect me or not. :cheesygrin:



REGARDS SNOW

snow

inspiredsports wrote: »

This has nothing to do with me being "selfish" or "more worthy" than someone else. I just don't believe we need to lower any flag anywhere for crack whores.

Veterans, heads-of-state; yes.

Performers whether they were crack whores or not; not so much.

And for the record, I still respect your opinions

So in your mind every person who has became addicted to some drug is a ****? and or pretty much worthless because of it? Or is it just women? That would make the hundreds of thousands of veterans of all wars that came back addicted pretty worthless huh? And all the men and women today in police stations that are addicted to some substance worthless even past Presidents Astronauts Senators people from all walks of life hell even John Wayne himself a loser in your mind huh? no matter what they have accomplished or sacrificed there all whores and losers right? and they deserve no respect from you because hey guess what your better than all of them right?

REGARDS SNOW

BeefJerky

snow wrote: »

I could care less whether you respect me or not. :cheesygrin:



REGARDS SNOW

Based on your recent posts, it is clear that you don't care about respect at all. However, I find it funny that this is the only response you posted, rather than actually addressing the comments you made. So, I guess I will assume that you really are so dense as to believe that a comparison such as that is truly valid.

snow

thesurfer wrote: »

The folks you speak of werent in the public eye to such a degree as she was, celebrating someone who died using drugs to such a degree, makes you wonder whats next, or for that matter, how much worse can it get, dont worry, its coming.

No one is celebrating nor endorsing her use of drugs, as mentioned before her use of drugs did not define who she was as a person and what she accomplished as an artist and humanitarian that is what people are in celebration of.

If she had spent her life doing nothing but drugs ripping people off selling herself etc then yes you would have a point.

Or do you believe that because of her drug use alone everything else she has done in her life is meaningless?


REGARDS SNOW