Vinyl my brothers....VINYL

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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited February 2012
    If you are gonna keep the one you have, get a better cartridge. Been using a Grado Prestige series for years and just love it!!!

    I still stand by my Rega suggestion for a new table, although Music Hall and Pro-ject are also very good tables.

    I didn't realize how much you wanted to play with, get a great Grado Prestige Gold for 200 and really hear what you have been missing. Super clean highs without the shrill some have, nice oomph to the low end. I have enjoyed it immensely.

    BTW, which Shure cart do you have? Some aren't bad at all and you may just need a new stylus.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    If you are going to get a better cartridge and phono pre-amp, be sure to gear it for your next purchase up the vinyl ladder. Maybe try and narrow down your next table and buy something you can use with that also. Sort of future proofing so you just basically have to step out of one table into another.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited February 2012
    Very good point. ^^^^
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited February 2012
    BeefJerky wrote: »
    That wouldn't be a bad idea. A good cartridge and preamp can make a world of difference. I like my Denon DL-110; it is on the warm side, but is in no way lacking extension in the highs.

    I may just do this instead and save for a really nice table in the future.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    If you are going to get a better cartridge and phono pre-amp, be sure to gear it for your next purchase up the vinyl ladder. Maybe try and narrow down your next table and buy something you can use with that also. Sort of future proofing so you just basically have to step out of one table into another.

    H9

    Great point. I may just do that. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want a tubed pre, or a SS pre with phono section. I'm actually leaning more towards the SS pre with phono right now. I owned the NAD C162 for awhile and I really like it so I may just try to find another one of those to hold me over. The Dared SL2000A sounds like it would be my style but it just doesn't have the features I'm looking for (remote, more inputs, phono section).
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    You can't do vinyl seriously unless you have a decent cleaning machine, so set aside another $500 for that. One of the main reason's I don't do vinyl besides the time element is because between the table, cartridge, phono pre-amp, and cleaning machine.....to do it like I'd expect would be in the neighborhood of $2500 or more. I personally am not interested in doing the entry level thing. Although I suspect I could get by with about $1K-1200 in the table/cart/pre-amp and then $500 for the proper cleaning machine.

    $500-600 for a table
    $200-400 for a cartridge
    $200-400 for a phono pre-amp

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • BeefJerky
    BeefJerky Posts: 1,320
    edited February 2012
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    Great point. I may just do that. Right now I'm trying to decide if I want a tubed pre, or a SS pre with phono section. I'm actually leaning more towards the SS pre with phono right now. I owned the NAD C162 for awhile and I really like it so I may just try to find another one of those to hold me over. The Dared SL2000A sounds like it would be my style but it just doesn't have the features I'm looking for (remote, more inputs, phono section).
    I recommend the Cambridge Azur 640p if you want a fantastic SS pre. The price is very reasonable too!
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You can't do vinyl seriously unless you have a decent cleaning machine, so set aside another $500 for that. One of the main reason's I don't do vinyl besides the time element is because between the table, cartridge, phono pre-amp, and cleaning machine.....to do it like I'd expect would be in the neighborhood of $2500 or more. I personally am not interested in doing the entry level thing. Although I suspect I could get by with about $1K-1200 in the table/cart/pre-amp and then $500 for the proper cleaning machine.

    $500-600 for a table
    $200-400 for a cartridge
    $200-400 for a phono pre-amp

    H9
    Well, he can do it without the record cleaning machine, it just takes more effort. I don't have one due to the cost, but I admit it may be part of the reason that I don't listen to vinyl as often.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited February 2012
    BeefJerky wrote: »
    I recommend the Cambridge Azur 640p if you want a fantastic SS pre. The price is very reasonable too!


    Well, he can do it without the record cleaning machine, it just takes more effort. I don't have one due to the cost, but I admit it may be part of the reason that I don't listen to vinyl as often.

    I haven't cleaned a single record in my collection :neutral:

    I'm looking into the Cambridge Beef. Thanks for the reco.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    Yeah, well then I guess you aren't that serious :twisted:.

    DOn't bother with a new cartridge if you aren't going to clean your vinyl. It's that simple. You'll eek out another 15-20% extra sound quality with a clean piece of vinyl, even if to the naked eye it looks alright.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited February 2012
    BeefJerky wrote: »
    Well, he can do it without the record cleaning machine, it just takes more effort.

    I'd have to say no, a record cleaning machine is necessary if you are going to get serious about vinyl and the gear to play vinyl on.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited February 2012
    Joe08867 wrote: »
    If you are gonna keep the one you have, get a better cartridge. Been using a Grado Prestige series for years and just love it!!!

    I still stand by my Rega suggestion for a new table, although Music Hall and Pro-ject are also very good tables.

    I didn't realize how much you wanted to play with, get a great Grado Prestige Gold for 200 and really hear what you have been missing. Super clean highs without the shrill some have, nice oomph to the low end. I have enjoyed it immensely.

    BTW, which Shure cart do you have? Some aren't bad at all and you may just need a new stylus.

    Joe, good stuff man. I'm looking into it. The Cart upgrade is third in line after finding a pre, then a DAC.
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  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Yeah, well then I guess you aren't that serious :twisted:.

    DOn't bother with a new cartridge if you aren't going to clean your vinyl. It's that simple. You'll eek out another 15-20% extra sound quality with a clean piece of vinyl, even if to the naked eye it looks alright.

    H9

    Hehe, you know what? You're right. But hot damn, $500?
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  • Joe08867
    Joe08867 Posts: 3,919
    edited February 2012
    Record Cleaning Machines are expensive but necessary.

    You could always DIY one. Look it up on youtube.

    Or use the wood glue method. It works I have done it myself.
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited February 2012
    Amen brother...vinyl can be so sweet it'll bring tears to your eyes at how good it can sound!

    Just got spinning Heart's Dreamboat Annie - if ever there was a demo for vinyl it is side 1 of this album...dead quiet...sublime sonics...great rock and roll!

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2012
    heiney9 wrote: »
    You can't do vinyl seriously unless you have a decent cleaning machine, so set aside another $500 for that. One of the main reason's I don't do vinyl besides the time element is because between the table, cartridge, phono pre-amp, and cleaning machine.....to do it like I'd expect would be in the neighborhood of $2500 or more.
    heiney9 wrote: »
    DOn't bother with a new cartridge if you aren't going to clean your vinyl. It's that simple. You'll eek out another 15-20% extra sound quality with a clean piece of vinyl, even if to the naked eye it looks alright.
    Brock, that's just bad advice from a guy who doesn't even "do vinyl". What if his Shure's stylus is worn?

    And you'd be surprised what a vintage rig well under $1000 could do.
    BeefJerky wrote: »
    Well, he can do it without the record cleaning machine, it just takes more effort.
    audiocr381ve,

    Listen to Beefy... Machines are nice, especially if you go Goodwill diving and rescue neglected vinyl. But with a little care and a couple manual pieces they are hardly necessary. Look for Watts record gear. Some still pops up on ebay now and then.

    In particular nab a Parastatic Disc Preener. It's an every-time cleaning brush for maintaining cleanliness. It also removes static. I found a seller in Spain a few years ago.

    For deep cleaning neglected vinyl look for Watts' Record Brush. Nothing cleans deeper and better than this brush. It gets grunge out of the groove that even machines leave behind. These are harder to find, but well worth the effort.

    Ken Swauger had developed a magic cleaning solution recipe a while back. Great for machines or the above record brush. I'm sure he's willing to share...

    Here's a link to VE's page on your SL-D2. Free downloads of its Owners and Maintenance Manuals. They also have a great section on choosing cartridges that will compliment your TT's arm. Well worth a minute or two registering there...
    http://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-d2.shtml

    Technics TT's had a nice following back in the day. What Shure Cartridge is mounted right now? M-91ED or other?

    Take your time and enjoy the journey...
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
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  • jim 249
    jim 249 Posts: 347
    edited February 2012
    Any thoughts on what to replace my Technics SLD2 with?

    Get a linear tracking table. I have a Revox B790 with a Shure V15 Type IV and a Jico stylus and couldn't be happier. They are for sale on the bay quite often for around 300 to 400.
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,396
    edited February 2012
    I paid top dollar for my PX-3, at 400.00, but it was new in the box when I got it. It is the longest serving piece of gear in my rig, and will not be replaced any time soon. It would set me back more than 3 grand to better it's performance, and then it wouldn't be by much. The table loves being mated with my Sumiko BPS EvoIII cartridge, and the linear tracking setup is the best IMHO for playback, as that is how the record was cut to begin with.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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