My center channel gets quiet under loud music

Jdpower

I have a Polk audio CSM Black center hooked up to a Yamaha RX-V371

Here is the Center

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290125

Here is my Receiver

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882115313


This center did the same on my old pioneer so i got a new receiver and it seemed to power the center fine and still does except at loud volumes. Should i get a new center or turn back this receiver?


If it helps i'm using 4-6 year old speaker wire but it is 16 gauge.

rebuy

Could you be more descriptive about the problem? I don't know what you mean.

tonyb

Whats the definition of "loud volume" ?

Could be your over driving the center, it is fairly small and not really capable of loud volumes....especially if the room is somewhat large.

Jdpower

Thank you for some answers I'm sorry let me restate the issue i'll try to be as clear as possible,

This center channel like freaks out at higher volumes. What happens is the center went out completly for like 20 seconds then it came back on. Like i said this center did the same thing on my pioneer but the pioneer could't power the center at all (after powering it for over 2 years fine). This new receiver only pops the center out at loud volumes. Is the center to weak to be Liston to this loud if so i'll buy a new one, But their is know distortion in the center at all and i always blasted it with my old receiver but like i said 2 years later the center channel on my pioneer went out, Now thecenter channel pop out for about 20 sec and came back on?

I'm buying some new Polk Audio Monitor40 for fronts and 30's for backs i already bought a Polk Audio PSW Series PSW10 sub what i'm saying is i would hate to buy a new center just to have the same issue but if it will fix it then i'll be happy.

I'm basically saying is it my receiver or the speaker?

tonyb

Maybe both......your receiver is an entry level one and not very powerfull to boot. In 5 channel surround, your only pushing 32 watts a channel. The center your using isn't ment to be played at such high volumes, and neither is the receiver. How big is your room ? Sounds like your pushing the receiver too hard, meaning too loud. Getting another center channel with the same receiver, and the same high volumes will likely give you the same results.

Chances are you already blew the speaker so a new one maybe in order, like a CS2, but you have to keep the volume somewhat respectable with that receiver or your going to just keep popping them.

Jdpower

tonyb wrote: »

Maybe both......your receiver is an entry level one and not very powerfull to boot. In 5 channel surround, your only pushing 32 watts a channel. The center your using isn't ment to be played at such high volumes, and neither is the receiver. How big is your room ? Sounds like your pushing the receiver too hard, meaning too loud. Getting another center channel with the same receiver, and the same high volumes will likely give you the same results.

Chances are you already blew the speaker so a new one maybe in order, like a CS2, but you have to keep the volume somewhat respectable with that receiver or your going to just keep popping them.

Lol 32 watts per channel that makes me sick, That probably explains why this is happening. Can use explain to me why its 32 watts per channel and the math behind it.

BlueFox

Have you tried playing music in stereo? The only time the center channel is legitimately used for music is if you are playing SACD or DVD-A. For some reason, I doubt if you are doing that. My guess is you are using one of the bogus surround options for music, and that is blasting your center. Try playing music in stereo, and let us know how it sounds.

Jdpower

BlueFox wrote: »

Have you tried playing music in stereo? The only time the center channel is legitimately used for music is if you are playing SACD or DVD-A. For some reason, I doubt if you are doing that. My guess is you are using one of the bogus surround options for music, and that is blasting your center. Try playing music in stereo, and let us know how it sounds.

Guess what i just tried a different speaker on my old receiver on the center channel it was perfect then i put the polk audio center on the left channel on my pioneer and it messed up. Its the center not the receiver's. More importantly i just wasted 230$ on a receiver that has crappy wattage while my old pioneer has 110 watts per channel of pure power. Or 550 watts of continues power! And it's past the 14 days i can return items at bestbuy.


When it comes to the speakers stuff happens i'll be getting another polk center soon. And i might go with the best! But i'll say it and i don't care Pioneer is better for the money and overall compared to Yamaha.

Toolfan66

I get the feeling you don't understand what you did to the speaker.

Even though I prefer Pioneer over Yamaha, not every Pioneer is better then every Yamaha..

I bet money you fry another speaker, unless you kick back here for a few and get your learn on..

Good Luck!!!

mdaudioguy

Jdpower wrote: »

Lol 32 watts per channel that makes me sick, That probably explains why this is happening. Can use explain to me why its 32 watts per channel and the math behind it.

Read this: http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-rx-v371-av-receiver

And specifically, this page: http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-rx-v371-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

The marketing for that budget receiver is especially deceptive, considering Yamaha advertises 100W per channel - yeah, ONE channel at a time! Most AVR models are at least marketed at their watts per channel for TWO channels driven, which is still deceptive, since most of these appear to be intended to drive 5 to 7 channels. Take the same amount of available power and divide it into more channels = lower power to each.

Bottom line: You fried your speaker by pushing it too hard with too little power. Actually 32 wpc can be plenty... if it's clean power. Unfortunately for you, your receiver clips (pushes a distorted signal) at that point, and that causes damage. So, keep running that "different" speaker at that volume, and you'll likely kill that, too. Keep the volume at a reasonable level, and you'll be... just ok.

Like Toolfan mentioned, stick around, read up, ask, learn, and eventually you'll be doing this right!

Jdpower

Toolfan66 wrote: »

I get the feeling you don't understand what you did to the speaker.

Even though I prefer Pioneer over Yamaha, not every Pioneer is better then every Yamaha..

I bet money you fry another speaker, unless you kick back here for a few and get your learn on..

Good Luck!!!

Try this then i have 40$ KLH speakers that work perfect and they where always up loud. Stuff happens i'll give polk a break and they do seem the best for the money. Oh yeah and i took apart my center just now and took out the circuitry and just rewired it and unplug the Tweeter and it works perfect on the pioneer. and Now the Yamaha even at loud volumes. Can some one explain this? I'm buying the best center for 150$

Jdpower

My pioneer had way enough power to push that to full capacity. Maybe not this knew one though. Either way my cheap 40$ KLH speakers still work so i'm giving polk a break. I love the brand a lot and its probably the only brand of speakers i'll buy. I would like some help on buying a new Center. I want to get Polk Audio Monitor40's for the fronts and 30's for the back. And i already have a New Polk Audio PSW Series PSW10 Sub that i love. I know polk recommends a CS1 not 2.

SDA1C

Jdpower wrote: »

Try this then i have 40$ KLH speakers that work perfect and they where always up loud. Stuff happens i'll give polk a break and they do seem the best for the money. Oh yeah and i took apart my center just now and took out the circuitry and just rewired it and unplug the Tweeter and it works perfect on the pioneer. and Now the Yamaha even at loud volumes. Can some one explain this? I'm buying the best center for 150$

You ain't buying the "Best" anything for $150.

Jdpower

Lol i know but 150$ is still a decent price range. I don't need a center that will over power my fronts.

SDA1C

BlueFox wrote: »

My guess is you are using one of the bogus surround options for music, and that is blasting your center. Try playing music in stereo, and let us know how it sounds.

+1^^

Jdpower

Since my old pioneer is fine and has 110 watts per channel should i use this over my new receiver. The only reason why i got a different receiver is because i thought the center channel was bad. 35 watts per channel is a good reason to never get another Yamaha again. Heck even the pioneer receiver for only 170$ is 80 watts per channel not that dumb 2 channel driven crap.

tonyb

Jdpower wrote: »

Since my old pioneer is fine and has 110 watts per channel should i use this over my new receiver. The only reason why i got a different receiver is because i thought the center channel was bad. 35 watts per channel is a good reason to never get another Yamaha again. Heck even the pioneer receiver for only 170$ is 80 watts per channel not that dumb 2 channel driven crap.

If that pioneer was 200 bucks brand new, chances are it still lacks power in 5 channel surround. I think your missing the boat on what we are trying to tell you.
Your trying to push too much volume, from too small of speakers, with not alot of power. Thats a recipe to blown speakers, no matter what you get as a center. First thing, is you have to realize your limitations, and keep the volume under control. Second, your going to need a new center channel, third, you may need a new receiver too as the power in the one you have is just plain weak. I get everyone has budget concerns, so again, keep the volume respectable until you can afford things and you should be ok.
You still haven't said how big the room is. That plays a role in how loud your turning it up to fill that room. Is this a bedroom your playing it in ?

Toolfan66

Jdpower wrote: »

Try this then i have 40$ KLH speakers that work perfect and they where always up loud. Stuff happens i'll give polk a break and they do seem the best for the money. Oh yeah and i took apart my center just now and took out the circuitry and just rewired it and unplug the Tweeter and it works perfect on the pioneer. and Now the Yamaha even at loud volumes. Can some one explain this? I'm buying the best center for 150$

In a surround set-up most of the signal is to the center channel, get it now??:rolleyes:

SDA1C

It's that 2 channel crap man. Gets em every time.

tonyb

Toolfan66 wrote: »

In a surround set-up most of the signal is to the center channel, get it now??:rolleyes:

Good point.........wish I had a nickel for every time this scenario gets played out here.

JD, read up here, most of your questions are explained in detail on numerous threads. Everything has it's limits, don't be so hell bent on finding them. Buy the right gear for the right room at the volume you like.....and if that doesn't jive with your wallet, keep the volume dial away from sticky fingers.

Jdpower

tonyb wrote: »

Good point.........wish I had a nickel for every time this scenario gets played out here.

JD, read up here, most of your questions are explained in detail on numerous threads. Everything has it's limits, don't be so hell bent on finding them. Buy the right gear for the right room at the volume you like.....and if that doesn't jive with your wallet, keep the volume dial away from sticky fingers.

Well when i say loud i don't mean 100%, I like my music to be loud but the volume is still usually around 60-70% Full. During 80% of the time my volume is barley on. But this pioneer was on sale back then in 07. It's a 550 watt continues Receiver. Versus the crappy less then 200 watts on my new receiver which my brother is buying.

Tour2ma

Sounds to me like we have Sid the 2nd on our hands. :cheesygrin:

Since it seems the sound recovers, it's not the speaker... unless Polk revived the thermistor for the CSM...

Sounds to me like the AVR's center ch's amp is going into thermal protection. At "60-70% Full" that's not surprising...

tonyb

Could be Bruce, definately more so possible. He did say he re wired the center, what that entails, I dunno.

Jdpower

Tour2ma wrote: »

Sounds to me like we have Sid the 2nd on our hands. :cheesygrin:

Since it seems the sound recovers, it's not the speaker... unless Polk revived the thermistor for the CSM...

Sounds to me like the AVR's center ch's amp is going into thermal protection. At "60-70% Full" that's not surprising...

Lol read he whole page, It was weird enough the circuitry in the Speaker that was bad once we took it out it works perfect except it sounds a little on clear. A different speaker was perfect. My good(old) receiver has enough power with 550 watts continues i'm listing to it loud right now well 50% up. Lol when i say loud i don't mean 100%.

I really would like to get some help on what next center speaker i should get. I want either the CS1 or 2. Polk recommends the CS1 with the speakers i'm getting(monitors 40,30's) and the sub i have but i kinda want something thathas a extra kick to it. But then again when my current center worked i loved it and it's pretty much a CS1(but older).

Jdpower

tonyb wrote: »

Could be Bruce, definately more so possible. He did say he re wired the center, what that entails, I dunno.

Pretty much means take the small circuit board out and rewire the speakers to the back on screws. But i did not rewire the tweeter since i think that would blow it out. I'm only going to run this until i get a new center which should be a month away.

Jdpower

Tour2ma wrote: »

Sounds to me like we have Sid the 2nd on our hands. :cheesygrin:

Since it seems the sound recovers, it's not the speaker... unless Polk revived the thermistor for the CSM...

Sounds to me like the AVR's center ch's amp is going into thermal protection. At "60-70% Full" that's not surprising...

Well on the pioneer it took the center out in seconds but the 35watt YAMAHA center channel took until it was loud and i always heard static on the speaker when connected to the Yamaha. at the time i thought it was the receiver but it was the center the whole time kinda pisses me off i bought a new receiver i can't take back so i'm having my brother buy it. I'm thinking about buying a new receiver soon anyways at least some time this year.

Tour2ma

Jdpower wrote: »

It was weird enough the circuitry in the Speaker that was bad once we took it out it works perfect except it sounds a little on clear. A different speaker was perfect.

Jdpower wrote: »

Pretty much means take the small circuit board out and rewire the speakers to the back on screws. But i did not rewire the tweeter since i think that would blow it out.

Jdpower wrote: »

Well on the pioneer it took the center out in seconds but the 35watt YAMAHA center channel took until it was loud and i always heard static on the speaker when connected to the Yamaha.

Yup... Sid the 2nd... and that ain't all bad. Sid the 1st turned out OK.

I doubt it was the cross-over (the "circuitry"). You pushed the Yammie into audible clipping. That was the static you heard. Clipping damages, or "fries", tweeters. You eliminated the symptom when you did not reconnect the tweeter.

Nothing potentially damaging in wiring the full-range signal to the MW, but it will never blend with your mains.

The Pioneer likely went immediately into protection.

The recommended centers originally made for the recent Monitor series were the CS1 and the CS2. It seems that they are still available.

But you need to ease off the volume some, or you will simply fry another tweeter...

Jdpower

Tour2ma wrote: »

Yup... Sid the 2nd... and that ain't all bad. Sid the 1st turned out OK.

I doubt it was the cross-over (the "circuitry"). You pushed the Yammie into audible clipping. That was the static you heard. Clipping damages, or "fries", tweeters. You eliminated the symptom when you did not reconnect the tweeter.

Nothing potentially damaging in wiring the full-range signal to the MW, but it will never blend with your mains.

The Pioneer likely went immediately into protection.

The recommended centers originally made for the recent Monitor series were the CS1 and the CS2. It seems that they are still available.

But you need to ease off the volume some, or you will simply fry another tweeter...

Thanks for your help that explain a lot. Like i said i'm buying a new center and Monitor 40's and 30's to go with my Sub. With along a receiver all within 2-3 Months. When the money comes in.


Also thinks to the rest of you who tried to help.

Serendipity

I would suggest in the future being more careful with the volume knob. Most home AVR's are over-rated and if you drive them into clipping, you may damage your speakers. For example, I have a Denon AVR-5800 that is rated at 170W * 7, but in reality it produces only a fraction of that when all channels are driven. Someone from here tested it and said that it only produced 82WPC. Just FYI...