AWD versus 4X4
Comments
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Cool looking vehicle but I'm still having a hard time justifying spending more money on a vehicle than I did on my first house, unless I considered it an investment....which an everyday driver is not.Yep, my name really is Bob.
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I saw some chick driving one of these just the other day. Had to come home and see what it was. Surprisingly affordable, definately a looker though.
Who? Her or the car? Choose carefully. :razz: -
The differentials in your XJ Sport are open or limited slip unless you added lockers aftermarket. Lockers were not a factory option in XJs (Cherokees). So aren't you in fact saying that no XJs had 4WD from the factory?
When I said "diffs must be locked" I meant either the center diff and/or the axle diffs. Of course if the center diff is not a diff but a transfer case (as in the case of the stock XJ) then it's locked. The optional Selec-Trac center diff was L/S with an option to manually lock, so in that case, it could be either AWD or 4WD (or 2WD if the center diff was disengaged). If all diffs are unlocked, then it's AWD. So basically I think we're saying the same thing. To simplify how I make the distinction even further:
4x4 = don't drive unless the surface is slippery.
AWD = drive whenever you want.
Obviously if it's full-time 4WD it has to be AWD. At least that's how I interpret it. I don't see any distinction between full-time 4WD and AWD--just different marketing terms for the same thing... Unless maybe you're talking about a vehicle that was never meant to go on-road, with a locked transfer case that could not be disengaged. I suppose such a thing probably exists. But for road-going vehicles, full-time 4WD = AWD.Yes there is.
Just because you declare it to be true does not make it so. Not the first time I have seen you do that, however.
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Just because you declare it to be true does not make it so. Not the first time I have seen you do that, however.
He's right though.
You can use all the words you want to be wrong but you're still wrong.
I've seen you do nothing but that the entire time you've been here.
It's like you intend to come here to do nothing but disagree with people no matter how incorrect you are.
Like a troll of sorts.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
What?? Where did that come from. If you guys want to show me the standards-setting authority that defines AWD, 4WD, 4x4, full-time 4WD and part-time 4WD, feel free to do so. Otherwise...
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What?? Where did that come from. If you guys want to show me the standards-setting authority that defines AWD, 4WD, 4x4, full-time 4WD and part-time 4WD, feel free to do so. Otherwise...
It's not a "standards setting authority". It's a common definition.
Here, why not read and learn something for once instead of just talking out your butt with zero factual reference at all?
http://rubicon-trail.com/4WD101/4WD-AWD-autoAWD.html
http://rubicon-trail.com/4WD101/difference_4WD_awd.htmlExpert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
Of course the definitions we assign to these terms are arbitrary as there is no industry standard defining what they actually mean.
"Industry standard" ≠ "common definition."
Reading comprehension, look into it.
If it was in fact an industry standard, then the standard setting agency of merit in this case would be handing out fines left and right to manufacturers of crossover SUVs with "4WD" stamped on their vehicles, when they are in fact AWD. I'm sure if you were to ask Mhardy to shift his "4WD" Escape into low range, he would give you a puzzled look.
But since there in fact isn't an industry standard, they are free to put 4WD on the AWD Escape if they choose to, which they obviously do.
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Heeeee's Baaaaaaaack ! :sad:
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Is Jstas a regular troll here? Haven't been around long enough to know.
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"Industry standard" ≠ "common definition."
Reading comprehension, look into it.
If it was in fact an industry standard, then the standard setting agency of merit in this case would be handing out fines left and right to manufacturers of crossover SUVs with "4WD" stamped on their vehicles, when they are in fact AWD. I'm sure if you were to ask Mhardy to shift his "4WD" Escape into low range, he would give you a puzzled look.
But since there in fact isn't an industry standard, they are free to put 4WD on the AWD Escape if they choose to, which they obviously do.
Gee... so I guess the owners manual of MY Escape that tells me low-range is selected automatically depending on where the gear shift is positioned (i.e.: not in overdrive) means it's not 4WD because you said so. Even though there is clearly a transfer case mounted under the vehicle. Just because it's automatic doesn't mean it's not there.
My MKX is AWD and has no range selection at all. Manual or automatic.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
LOL....You guys kill me. Frankly....I really don't think anyone gives a hoot if it's real time 4wd, awd, part time, full time, on the fly, off the cuff, as long as 4 tires are spinnin' and grabbing, call it Pee Wee Herman drive for all that matters.
John, I love ya man, but if there's a split hair to be found, you'll find it.:cheesygrin:HT SYSTEM-
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My truck is a 4x2. It is not RWD.
-CodyMusic is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it -
LOL....You guys kill me. Frankly....I really don't think anyone gives a hoot if it's real time 4wd, awd, part time, full time, on the fly, off the cuff, as long as 4 tires are spinnin' and grabbing, call it Pee Wee Herman drive for all that matters.
John, I love ya man, but if there's a split hair to be found, you'll find it.:cheesygrin:
I didn't split the hair, F1nut did. I just grabbed a fist full and yanked on those split hairs real hard.
It's not easy being right all the time, you know. It's more of a cross than a blessing. But it sure can be fun! :razz:Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
exalted512 wrote: »My truck is a 4x2. It is not RWD.
-Cody
I used to drive a 4WD but only 2/3rds of the axles were driven.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
It's not easy being right all the time, you know. It's more of a cross than a blessing.
Irony.
-CodyMusic is like candy, you have to get rid of the rappers to enjoy it -
Is Jstas a regular troll here? Haven't been around long enough to know.
I'd guess that would depend upon who you asked. I try to make allowances for residents of Philadelpia and the entire "Garden State".
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The '12 Subaru Impreza is rated at 36mpg. Not too many other AWD cars have such high mileage. I would consider this if interior quality is not a priority and you just want a car that works well (I own an '11 WRX).
The difference between AWD and 4x4 gets tricky because of the tiny details that separate them. In an AWD vehicle, a center differential allows drive power to be distributed between all 4 wheels. The important part here is that while all wheels are connected and able to drive the vehicle forward, they don't all have to spin at the same speed.
In a 4x4 vehicle you usually have two modes (hi/low, part/full, something like that). These modes are very important to pay attention to because using the wrong mode can thoroughly F up your vehicle. Hi and part time 4x4 let the vehicle act similarly to an AWD car in that all 4 wheels will drive the car forward but they can still spin at different speeds (going around a turn or slipping in mud/snow). Low and full lock all 4 wheels together so power is distributed evenly and constantly to drive the vehicle forward.
Low/full are great for getting your car unstuck or for driving through deep mud/snow. If one wheel is off the ground, slipping excessively, or just doesn't have as much traction as the rest of the wheels, it won't spin wildly out of control and suck power from the wheels that have grip. All 4 wheels will continue spinning and you probably won't even notice you were in a situation with a wheel slipping. You absolutely cannot drive on dry (I wouldn't even drive on wet) pavement with this mode. When you go around a turn the outside wheels won't be allowed to spin faster than the inside wheels and you'll screech your tires and put unnecessary wear on your drive train. This mode needs to be engaged...usually it's something like stop, neutral, select mode, drive forward to engage mode. Driving in reverse before driving forward first will mess up things big time (ask me how I know).
Hi/part are good because you don't have to worry about road conditions once it's engaged. You can drive on regular pavement with these modes just like an AWD vehicle. You still have to select it though.
So whats right for you? Well if you plan on staying on roads, stick with AWD. You won't have to select a mode and you won't need the tank like abilities of 4x4 full to get you out of 6 inches of mud. If you plan on off roading (not a dirt road, I mean real off roading) or if you just want the tank like abilities of 4x4, then get a jeep and call it a day.
If you've chosen AWD I'd like to further suggest a Subaru because of their low center of gravity and symmetric weight distribution. That's why they call is symmetrical AWD. The boxer engine is square and centered and all the AWD heavy bits are in the midline of the car so one wheel doesn't get more weight than another. This helps a ton when trying to drive up a slippery hill. The AWD system is not mostly computerized in that if one wheel starts spinning wildly, the brake will be applied to that wheel only in order to prevent it from sucking power away. You can turn this feature off in order to have some slippery parking lot fun
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I forgot to mention that even more important than what drive you have is what kind of tires you have. AWD on summer tires is just as useless in the snow as 2WD. Regardless of which one you pick, make sure you get a good set of tires!
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It was featued on Test drive and I thought it was a very nice little SUV.I expected a higher price tag considering the name plate.I saw some chick driving one of these just the other day. Had to come home and see what it was. Surprisingly affordable, definately a looker though. -
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So basically I think we're saying the same thing.
I don't.
Like I said, I consider a vehicle with a low-range transfer case 4WD, regardless of whether it can unlock a center diff or not. You consider it AWD regardless of the fact that it also fits your definition of 4WD (w/center diff locked). I'm fine with that, it's just not the terminology I use. In the case of the XJ, Jeep didn't either. When I use the terms 4WD and AWD, they are not interchangeable.I don't see any distinction between full-time 4WD and AWD--just different marketing terms for the same thing...
I can think of many drive systems that you would consider full-time 4WD and AWD, yet those systems are vastly different in their operation. The engineer in me says they are definitely not the same thing.
That's all I have to say on the matter...2.1: PC>Schiit Gungnir MB>Schiit Freya Noval>NAD C-270>Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1, HSU STF-2 5.1: HDMI Bitstream>Denon AVR-1910>polkaudio RTE55, CS350-LS, RT3, HSU STF-2, Visio M55-F0 -
Airplay355 wrote: »The '12 Subaru Impreza is rated at 36mpg.
What is that? Imperial gallons like ALL the government ratings on cars now a days? I hate those inflated numbers that are hardly achieved. -
Just because you declare it to be true does not make it so. Not the first time I have seen you do that, however.
Someone has to point out when you're wrong, so it might as well be me.
I've owned a number of 4X4's in my time, ones that were more than capable, ones that I actually drove off-road regularly. I've driven on every terrain there is in the 48, including in rivers. I even did a bit of off-road racing. On the other hand, you didn't even know that you should engage the system at least a few times a year.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
This little gem just might fill the bill !
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I think I'll try to get back to the original question.
If your main goal is to get 40 mpg, forget about a SUV or truck based system.
What you can expect to find is a light car designed to drive all four wheels at most times.
You will not get a vehicle capable of serious off-roading or even one that will allow you to navigate heavy snow conditions.
What you will get is one that will be confidence inspiring on rain-slick roads or lightly dusted over streets.
You also won't expect to pay the maintenance premium for a true 4WD vehicle. -
Gee... so I guess the owners manual of MY Escape that tells me low-range is selected automatically depending on where the gear shift is positioned (i.e.: not in overdrive) means it's not 4WD because you said so. Even though there is clearly a transfer case mounted under the vehicle. Just because it's automatic doesn't mean it's not there.
Depending on the model year, your Ford Escape either has a Control Trac II system or a Ford Intelligent 4WD system, neither of which have a selectable low-range transfer case. In fact, neither have a transfer case, despite what you think you see. Since the Escape operates in FWD mode in normal conditions, a transfer case would be unnecessary. What you are actually seeing underneath your Escape is a rotary blade coupling or RBC. It is a clutch pack that engages the rear axle either when slippage is detected while in "4WD Auto" mode, or in the case of the older Control Trac II system, when the user selected "4WD On" via a switch. No such selection is available in Ford's Intelligent 4WD, which operates only in 4WD Auto. However, the front and rear axles are never truly locked together until slippage occurs. It is what I (and most others) would consider an AWD system.
As for the low range you read about in the owner's manual, you are probably confusing a low range on an automatic transmission for a low range on a transfer case, which are clearly not the same thing.
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Someone has to point out when you're wrong, so it might as well be me.
I've owned a number of 4X4's in my time, ones that were more than capable, ones that I actually drove off-road regularly. I've driven on every terrain there is in the 48, including in rivers. I even did a bit of off-road racing. On the other hand, you didn't even know that you should engage the system at least a few times a year.
An "appeal to authority" fallacy, which doesn't even support your original claim that there is an industry standard for labeling AWD/4WD systems.
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Derp derp derp.
Fool, check yourself.
I assure you I am not confused in any way about anything automotive.
Especially concerning the vehicles I own.Expert Moron Extraordinaire
You're just jealous 'cause the voices don't talk to you! -
Sadly, you have already proven yourself wrong in that regard.
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/brandpages/ford/131_0201_transfer_case_ford_escape_ford_sport_trac/index.html
http://www.romaine.name/escape/how_4x4_works.htm
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What is that? Imperial gallons like ALL the government ratings on cars now a days? I hate those inflated numbers that are hardly achieved.
I doubt it's inflated. My car is rated at 20/25 and I get 23/27. It absolutely depends on how you maintain your car, how you drive and the tires you have.
