Another 'is the power enough' RTi7 question

ravaneli

I saw several similar threads but still can't quite make my mind and I would appreciate some opinions here.

i wana buy this guy because it comes at 135 shipped, brand new. I already own the exact same model, and i really like the sound. This is a great deal, and all decent amps are just prohibitively expensive (afraid to buy used).

I have the manual and it mentions nothing about bridging, but can I biamp A7s somehow with it? If not, how will they run on just 80W? Ideally I would use the real channels to biamp the A7s, and the center channel for A6, and the preouts for surround, if I have surround at all (don't have to have)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117398&cm_sp=Cat_Home_Audio-_-New-_-82-117-398

Thanks in advance!

ravaneli

I forgot to ask, if you know a good deal (even on used) on a receiver, may be 7.1, that can be bridged and have enough juice to power the two A7s pls share : )

flyfisher

Whats your budget?

62caddy

I've run my RTiA7s with a Proton D940 receiver (40 WPC; 6 dB Dynamic Headroom) with ease. Presently they are running on a 100 WPC receiver, again completely satifactorily. However much depends of your listening habits, room size etc etc.

True biamplification would require an external crossover and modifications to the speaker built in crossover in addition to more massive amplification. In short, it's not worth it.

Here's a good synopsis of the whole bi-amplification issue.


http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=5344769#post5344769

ravaneli

flyfisher wrote: »

Whats your budget?

To tell you the truth, I don't really have a budget. Prefer to be able to power the 2 x A7 + A6 with $300 - 400, but i prefer a good deal more than low price. For example, I could cough up 600 for an amp that is normally 1200 rather than buy one that is normally 400 for 300. Talking about new ones. Spending more than 500 on a used, often 10 yrs old amp seems crazy risky to me.

tonyb

That receiver has what we would say is a weak power supply. In 7 channel surround, which is what you would be using to bi-amp, I'll bet your down to around 30 watts per channel. So you'd throw 60 watts at the RTI 7's. You need a beefier receiver if bi-amping is your thing. Personally, I would look for a used receiver in the 400 buck range, a couple years old....and hook them straight up with no bi-amping. Find a receiver that has preouts too. No preouts means you can't add an amp later if you so choose to.

tonyb

Look at the Denon in the FM, seems like it fits the bill.

ravaneli

thanks for the help, tonyb.

I used to measure the amps in my car with a digital multimeter. Just measure the voltage and use the formula.

I tried this with this amp and I record no DC voltage. I checked my DMM with a few other things and it works fine. When I switch the needle to 200m in the DC voltage section, i start to read between 27 and 29, even thirty. But that's milivolts!!! How is that possible? Are my speakers even DC or AC? I get no reading under AC : (

Sorry if these questions sound kinda dumb. I like to put popular beliefs to the test. I just can't believe that Pioneer will so grossly overstate the power of the amp from 80 to 30W. I have a pioneer amp in my trunk and that thing just HITS HARD. I have nothing but the deepest respect for my old pioneer amp. It did cost me 500 for refurbished tho, and that was 5 years ago..

newbeewannabee

just saw the link above...my bad

tonyb

ravaneli wrote: »

I like to put popular beliefs to the test. I just can't believe that Pioneer will so grossly overstate the power of the amp from 80 to 30W. I have a pioneer amp in my trunk and that thing just HITS HARD. I have nothing but the deepest respect for my old pioneer amp. It did cost me 500 for refurbished tho, and that was 5 years ago..

An amp and a receiver are two different animals bro. Most entry to midlevel receivers drop their power the more channels you add to them. It is not a popular belief, it's fact. The stated power ratings most times is for 2 channel, not 7. There are exceptions of coarse, Like Pioneers Elite versions with the ice amps that tend to hold their power specs more faithfully in 7 channel surround and some other makers who run beefer power supplies in their receivers. Look at bench tests from Home Theater mag, or just google it, but if you look at the spec sheet on alot of receivers you'll find they state for example 100 watts at 7 channels, but put in a power supply thats 450 watts.....by my math,that doesn't add up. The entry level receivers are the worst for rated power specs, thats why having preouts to add an amp is a feature we push around here because sooner or later that upgrade bug hits and those big speaker you were drooling over suddenly are within your reach.....but your avr won't be up to snuff to power them. It's more so an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure type of thing.

larry777

Yes,that Denon AVR 3808 in the F/S section would run those RTiA7's nicely. The Denon offers a lot for the money, including Power.

ravaneli

my amp has preouts for front height or rear surround. Is that what I need to hook up an amp?

Sorry for stupid question, don't know if you need separate preout for every channel..

tonyb

ravaneli wrote: »

my amp has preouts for front height or rear surround. Is that what I need to hook up an amp?

Sorry for stupid question, don't know if you need separate preout for every channel..

Nope, you need 5.1 preouts or 7.1 Front left and right, center, back left and right....to be more exact. Don't know of any receiver that has preouts for surrounds and not the front though. What receiver are you using ?

ravaneli

tonyb wrote: »

Nope, you need 5.1 preouts or 7.1 Front left and right, center, back left and right....to be more exact. Don't know of any receiver that has preouts for surrounds and not the front though. What receiver are you using ?

It has only one set of pre outs, and they can be rear surround OR FRONT HEIGHT. I don't even know what front height is. When u use them u have to make a selection in the menu to say how u use them.

Can I use those front heights to hook an amp for the RTIs?

tonyb

Nope, not what you need bro.

ravaneli

: (

I just can't cough up that much money for an old denon AVR.

My A7 already arrived (gota go pick them up tonite)

Will hook them in 2.0 stereo mode tonite to see if my pioneer can drive them at all. It's power supply says 435W. At 80% efficiency that should be 350, so like 70W per channel. Of course not considering where distortion comes alive. But the front two are quite possible to be true to its rating of 80W imo (20-20k hrtz 80W, 1khz 110W)

tonyb

ravaneli wrote: »

: (

I just can't cough up that much money for an old denon AVR.

Old ?? That receiver has everything a modern one does, HDMI, DTS HD master audio, etc. 400 bucks is a good price and believe me, I have no interest in the sale at all. But, if ya don't have the coin, ya don't have the coin. The receiver you have will do ok in 2 channel mode, just in 5 channel or 7, keep the volume under control dude.

ravaneli

acually i didn't mean to say old. I checked it out and it's a gorgeous receiver. I meant 'used'. If I overload it accidentally with the A7s and it blows, i have no warranty or anything.. I guess it's a subjective matter of risk tolerance..

Will report on my pioneer driving those two tonight.

The thing is, I am looking for a good deal on a A6 as well, but I am getting an A6 for sure. So the Pio will be quite loaded .. But that's just a test. I will have to get something with more juice for the front 3..

tonyb

ravaneli wrote: »

acually i didn't mean to say old. I checked it out and it's a gorgeous receiver. I meant 'used'. If I overload it accidentally with the A7s and it blows, i have no warranty or anything.. I guess it's a subjective matter of risk tolerance..

Will report on my pioneer driving those two tonight.

The thing is, I am looking for a good deal on a A6 as well, but I am getting an A6 for sure. So the Pio will be quite loaded .. But that's just a test. I will have to get something with more juice for the front 3..

It's impossible to blow that receiver with those speakers. Maybe you don't understand how this all works, and I'm just trying to save you some headaches down the road. The first thing that will blow...will be your brand spankin' new speakers, likely the tweeters. You can use that Pioneer, but if you start blasting away on the volume dial in 7 channel surround, your going to be in dangerous territory. Incidently, I don't think even new receivers are covered when driven into clipping. It's only natural to turn up the volume when you get new speakers, I understand that, just be carefull is all I'm saying. Rock on.