Crossover Wire

audiocr381ve

Hey fellas, I need to order some internal crossover wire (or cable or conductor?) for my CRS+'s. I want something equivalent to what's in there as I've heard it's good stuff. I'd really appreciate someone linking me to either parts express or sonicraft. I also need the speaker terminal connectors for the wire. A link would be very helpful too.

I hope I'm using the right language here :redface:

audiocr381ve

anonymouse wrote: »

What happened to the original crossover wire?

This guys PTFE silver plated copper is good and cheap: http://apexjr.com/wire.html

Gimpod has links to the crossover connectors on his microsite.

The wife thought it was scrap and threw it out believe it or not.

Thanks, I'm gonna check that stuff out.

audiocr381ve

anonymouse wrote: »

What happened to the original crossover wire?

This guys PTFE silver plated copper is good and cheap: http://apexjr.com/wire.html

Gimpod has links to the crossover connectors on his microsite.

Wow, that has to be the most old school site I've seen in years. What gauge would I need? Also, I need wire to go from the crossover to the inductors. Is that wire different?

audiocr381ve

anonymouse wrote: »

16AWG should be more than enough.

Why would you need wire to go to the inductors? IIRC, the inductors wire in directly to the boards, unless you are using Gimpods board, in which case, just use the same wire as the wires running to the drivers.

Yep, new inductors and new boards.

Does soniccraft have anything for a decent price that I should look at? Is silver plated copper what I should be using?

audiocr381ve

anonymouse wrote: »

I've never replaced the internal wire when I do crossovers, but it I were to, I would probably use silver plated copper. No way to know unless you experiment.

Gotcha.

I had a look through gimpods site and can't find anything for the little metal connectors that attach to the speaker terminals.

Schurkey

Silver-plated copper wire often (not always) uses Teflon insulation. It comes on the market sometimes as "army surplus" because it's made to mil-spec.

The big advantage is that it tolerates high heat; the silver plating doesn't melt like solder would. The silver plating is nowhere close to thick enough to be advantageous in terms of "skin effect". Teflon insulation also takes heat well. Teflon is an excellent insulator; but the voltage the wire is likely to encounter inside a speaker cabinet is not that high.

The inside of your cabinets don't get hot. No real advantage to the silver plating or the Teflon insulation, although it sure sounds fancy.

I suggest 12- 14- or 16-gauge stranded (not solid) THHN. A spool of fifty feet of 12-gauge is under $15 at Home Despot. Installing a heavier THHN wire will gain far more than using the Mil-Spec silver/teflon stuff in the original gauge size. Wouldn't be a bad idea to see how much you're going to need in total, and then perhaps pick up several different colors.

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Wire-Cable-Electrical-Wiring-THHN-5yc1vZbmad/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbmad/R-202316524/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

audiocr381ve

Schurkey wrote: »

Silver-plated copper wire often (not always) uses Teflon insulation. It comes on the market sometimes as "army surplus" because it's made to mil-spec.

The big advantage is that it tolerates high heat; the silver plating doesn't melt like solder would. The silver plating is nowhere close to thick enough to be advantageous in terms of "skin effect". Teflon insulation also takes heat well. Teflon is an excellent insulator; but the voltage the wire is likely to encounter inside a speaker cabinet is not that high.

The inside of your cabinets don't get hot. No real advantage to the silver plating or the Teflon insulation, although it sure sounds fancy.

I suggest 12- 14- or 16-gauge stranded (not solid) THHN. A spool of fifty feet of 12-gauge is under $15 at Home Despot. Installing a heavier THHN wire will gain far more than using the Mil-Spec silver/teflon stuff in the original gauge size. Wouldn't be a bad idea to see how much you're going to need in total, and then perhaps pick up several different colors.

http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-Wire-Cable-Electrical-Wiring-THHN-5yc1vZbmad/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbmad/R-202316524/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Holy crap that was a great response. I'm going to go with that, especially since Home Depot is practically in my background. Thank you man.

audiocr381ve

Okay, I bought the 12 awg THHN wire from Home Depot, BUT, the female disconnects I bought for the speaker terminals (MW's) are not fitting properly. I mean, I can get them on and crimp but I don't think that's the best route.

Here are the ones I bought: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202522639/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Like I said, I can make them work, but I'd rather do things right. Where can I find the correct disconnects for the MW drivers? Also, I'll need the small disconnects for the tweeters too. Where can I find those? I thought about soldering them direct too...

audiocr381ve

****, the 12awg was too big to fit into the Molex connectors. Hmmm....

gimpod

You need to use 16 gauge tinned OFC wire (it's what Polk used), That Faston is the correct size for the MW drivers but not that 12 gauge wire. Also I think 16 gauge is the max size for the molex connectors. You'll need 0.110" Fastons for the small terminals on the tweeters. Try mouser or digikey.

quadzilla

16 gauge is fine. That's what the original wire is. I just did a set of 2.3 TLs with Cardas chassis wire with excellent results. I would stay away from plated copper though. The plating produces a very long bi-metal junction that can introduce anomalies into the sound. Some people like it. I think it sounds like ****.

Schurkey

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Okay, I bought the 12 awg THHN wire from Home Depot, BUT, the female disconnects I bought for the speaker terminals (MW's) are not fitting properly. I mean, I can get them on and crimp but I don't think that's the best route.

Here are the ones I bought: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202522639/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Like I said, I can make them work, but I'd rather do things right. Where can I find the correct disconnects for the MW drivers? Also, I'll need the small disconnects for the tweeters too. Where can I find those? I thought about soldering them direct too...

The "16-14" stamped into the side of the connector is the gauge of wire it is intended to accept. Typical of blue-colored connectors.

Yellow-colored crimp terminals are for 10-12 gauge.

I think the red ones are 18 and smaller.

Can you "cheat" at the Molex end by clipping a couple of strands at a time until the wire fits, crimp and solder to the full-strand section? I've never worked with Molex, I don't know.

audiocr381ve

quadzilla wrote: »

16 gauge is fine. That's what the original wire is. I just did a set of 2.3 TLs with Cardas chassis wire with excellent results. I would stay away from plated copper though. The plating produces a very long bi-metal junction that can introduce anomalies into the sound. Some people like it. I think it sounds like ****.

Thanks guys.

quad, did you use the 15.5 awg cardas chassis wire? I don't see a straight up 16 awg.

quadzilla

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Thanks guys.

quad, did you use the 15.5 awg cardas chassis wire? I don't see a straight up 16 awg.

Yes.

drumminman

I'd think about trying silver solid core (not silver plated) teflon insulated mil-spec wire. You can get 50 feet for around $10-$20 on ebay. I have some IC's, both digital and analog, I diy'ed from similar stuff and it works superbly.

When I get some time (and other projects out of the way) I'm planning on diy'ing a new set of speaker cables.

pitdogg2

gimpod wrote: »

You need to use 16 gauge tinned OFC wire (it's what Polk used), That Faston is the correct size for the MW drivers but not that 12 gauge wire. Also I think 16 gauge is the max size for the molex connectors. You'll need 0.110" Fastons for the small terminals on the tweeters. Try mouser or digikey.

try autozone or advanced auto it is were i bought my connectors and they were gold plated.

Joe08867

Silver Solid Core will add brightness to the sound. If you prefer more of a tinny sound to the top end then Silver wire is your friend.

I would stick with Copper myself.

drumminman

Joe08867 wrote: »

Silver Solid Core will add brightness to the sound. If you prefer more of a tinny sound to the top end then Silver wire is your friend.

I would stick with Copper myself.

Not in my experience and with my equipment and the DIY implementation I used. Silver gets a bad rap, but it's usually not because it's silver; it's other factors.

Joe08867

Anytime I have used Silver, Interconnects or Wire I get more sibilance than with copper. It isn't always bad and sometimes help certain speakers, (Dahlquist DQ8's come to mind as do anything by Bose) I was just mentioning it.

PolkMaster1

Copper without silver is sufficient for the MW - 18AWG should be sufficient enough. Use 23 AWG Silver and 18 AWG Copper in pairs for the Tweeters to yeild the best results.

audiocr381ve

gimpod wrote: »

You need to use 16 gauge tinned OFC wire (it's what Polk used), That Faston is the correct size for the MW drivers but not that 12 gauge wire. Also I think 16 gauge is the max size for the molex connectors. You'll need 0.110" Fastons for the small terminals on the tweeters. Try mouser or digikey.

I'm having trouble finding this tinned OFC wire. Would you mind posting a link?

pitdogg2

audiocr381ve wrote: »

I'm having trouble finding this tinned OFC wire. Would you mind posting a link?

way too much thought put into this... Google "hook up wire" or "chassis wire" you should come up with good results.
this is what was recommended to me. it was 9$ cheaper per meter. I used 14ga.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_furutech.html

but there are others on the site. Once i just used good speaker wire i couldn't tell any difference but YMMV

audiocr381ve

pitdogg2 wrote: »

way too much thought put into this... Google "hook up wire" or "chassis wire" you should come up with good results.
this is what was recommended to me. it was 9$ cheaper per meter. I used 14ga.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_furutech.html

but there are others on the site. Once i just used good speaker wire i couldn't tell any difference but YMMV

I agree. I just don't have any type of background that would help me understand different metals and their sonic characteristics and too make it even more confusing, terms like tinned, solid, stranded, OFC, THHN, etc. are pretty foreign to me. I'm sure you could understand why a wire newb would have a difficult time understanding these things.

Here I am over-thinking it again, hah. Thanks for the link!

audiocr381ve

pitdogg2 wrote: »

way too much thought put into this... Google "hook up wire" or "chassis wire" you should come up with good results.
this is what was recommended to me. it was 9$ cheaper per meter. I used 14ga.
http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_hookup_furutech.html

but there are others on the site. Once i just used good speaker wire i couldn't tell any difference but YMMV

Just checked out the link. No way in hell am I paying that much for wire. $20+ / meter!!! You gotta be kidding me. 20 ft. of Cardas Chassis is $45 and that's still just to pricey.

PM on its way to Tony lol.

audiocr381ve

Would this work well?

http://www.frys.com/product/1615731;jsessionid=Ym+NvRwYMIxf7uZFlXFmlQ__.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

quadzilla

audiocr381ve wrote: »

I agree. I just don't have any type of background that would help me understand different metals and their sonic characteristics and too make it even more confusing, terms like tinned, solid, stranded, OFC, THHN, etc. are pretty foreign to me. I'm sure you could understand why a wire newb would have a difficult time understanding these things.

Here I am over-thinking it again, hah. Thanks for the link!

Tinned = tin plated. Not the same as tinning with solder. Sounds like ****.

Solid = solid. As in, not strands of wire, but one single wire of what ever gauge is listed. Experiences skin effect unless its gauge is smaller than the depth of the skin effect at the highest required frequency. Can sound great if use correctly and not plated with anything, but most people use too large a gauge for the application at hand, and therefore, it ends up sounding like ****.

Stranded = not solid, but smaller strands of wire either twisted together or just run parallel to make the target gauge. Suffers from electrons hopping from strand to strand, significant hysteresis effects, and just generally sounds like ****. The exception is a proper implementation of litz, where each strand is individually insulated and wound in a specific manner.

OFC = oxygen free copper. Just like it sounds, it's copper with a very low oxygen content.

THHN = Thermoplastic High Heat-resistant Nylon coated. Really more of a wire for construction than audio.

I guess it would be hard to find this stuff, what with there not being a way to easily look up information... if only there was a web site where you could type stuff like acronyms in and get answers. One that just crawled the web all day, indexing sites and presenting it up through a simple interface. Maybe I should start a site like that. I could call it a "search engine". Maybe even name it for a clever twist on "googol" (a 1 with 1 million zeros after it) for the number if websites I'd be indexing. Man... if only.... :razz:

quadzilla

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Would this work well?

http://www.frys.com/product/1615731;jsessionid=Ym+NvRwYMIxf7uZFlXFmlQ__.node2?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Define "well". If by well, you mean will some kind of noise come out of the speakers, then yes, it will work well.

audiocr381ve

quadzilla wrote: »

Tinned = tin plated. Not the same as tinning with solder. Sounds like ****.

Solid = solid. As in, not strands of wire, but one single wire of what ever gauge is listed. Experiences skin effect unless its gauge is smaller than the depth of the skin effect at the highest required frequency. Can sound great if use correctly and not plated with anything, but most people use too large a gauge for the application at hand, and therefore, it ends up sounding like ****.

Stranded = not solid, but smaller strands of wire either twisted together or just run parallel to make the target gauge. Suffers from electrons hopping from strand to strand, significant hysteresis effects, and just generally sounds like ****. The exception is a proper implementation of litz, where each strand is individually insulated and wound in a specific manner.

OFC = oxygen free copper. Just like it sounds, it's copper with a very low oxygen content.

THHN = Thermoplastic High Heat-resistant Nylon coated. Really more of a wire for construction than audio.

I guess it would be hard to find this stuff, what with there not being a way to easily look up information... if only there was a web site where you could type stuff like acronyms in and get answers. One that just crawled the web all day, indexing sites and presenting it up through a simple interface. Maybe I should start a site like that. I could call it a "search engine". Maybe even name it for a clever twist on "googol" (a 1 with 1 million zeros after it) for the number if websites I'd be indexing. Man... if only.... :razz:

Hehe, thanks. I should have mentioned that the terms themselves are not foreign but the different audio applications are. Why stranded? Why Solid? Why OFC? Etc... It's easy to look up the "what" but hard to find the "why".

quadzilla

audiocr381ve wrote: »

Hehe, thanks. I should have mentioned that the terms themselves are not foreign but the different audio applications are. Why stranded? Why Solid? Why OFC? Etc... It's easy to look up the "what" but hard to find the "why".

Well, I gave you some of the "why". As far as why people use OFC, oxygen doesn't conduct electricity. And copper oxide is a terrible conductor, which is one reason why copper wires are insulated.

Same suggestion applies though. Try a little research.

audiocr381ve

quadzilla wrote: »

Well, I gave you some of the "why". As far as why people use OFC, oxygen doesn't conduct electricity. And copper oxide is a terrible conductor, which is one reason why copper wires are insulated.

Same suggestion applies though. Try a little research.

That's why I thanked you, for giving me the why

Is this not research? lol

quadzilla

No, this is research http://lmgtfy.com/?q=research&l=1