SDA2B v 1C?

Indyaudio2

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the assistance with my 2B purchase and the acquisition of the interconnect cable. These babies sure sound great and the imaging is really amazing. I have compared them to my both my Carver Amazing and KEF 104/2s speakers, but the later using Carver Sonic Holography effect. Any of my other speakers without the holography turned on really loose the depth and soundstage. The Polks sound great without it and even sound good with that circuitry engaged, but I usually listen to them with it off.

So, I get my 2Bs all settled in and set up only to find a friend has a pair of 1Cs he bought new and isn't using. He wants me to own them.

How much of difference will I hear, if any, between these speakers? I would expect to hear a difference with 2 extra tweet and 4 extra woofs! They both represent the best or last version of each model, so they should be the most refined, right? Threads here indicate as much.

I am trying to get over and listen to his soon. In the meantime, what do you think here? I got my 2Bs locally for a great price, no shipping cost, and they cleaned up very nicely, now looking excellent. The 1Cs I expect to look like new as well being one owner and stored for many years. Right now, his asking price is twice what I paid for the 2Bs and I don't expect them to sound twice as good:)

Thanks in advance for your feedback and comments.

F1nut

Since you can listen to them, let your ears decide.

Mike Reeter

As F1nut says,it doesn't cost much to have a listen. While I can't comment on the difference between the two,if it were me,I'd pick up the 1C's just to have em'. I do know that when modded,the 1C's sound fantastic, and knowing the original owner and how they have been taken care of...well,that's just cake.

Indyaudio2

Thanks F1 and Mike, good advice. Ideally, a side by side in my listening room would be best and can likely be arranged. I'll take the first step and listen at his house on his gear and go from there. I'll post impressions once I get this done, maybe this weekend.

Any other members, pls post your thoughts or impressions regarding the comparison, thanks.

DracoAmericanus

A friend of mine has posed a question about partial modding my 1B's my seperating the sda effect from the tweeters using spare parts to set up the tweets as they are in the 1C's, this would take some work but it's not out side of what we can do, has anyone done this and would it be worth the work to make the twwets not part of the sda effect for them, has any one tried this?

inspiredsports

DracoAmericanus wrote: »

A friend of mine has posed a question about partial modding my 1B's my seperating the sda effect from the tweeters using spare parts to set up the tweets as they are in the 1C's, this would take some work but it's not out side of what we can do, has anyone done this and would it be worth the work to make the twwets not part of the sda effect for them, has any one tried this?

1B's do not have a tweeter in the SDA circuit. It's 1's and 1A's that use that architecture.

Theses thread will help with 1A/1B questions. . .
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?128440
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?128489

inspiredsports

Indyaudio2 wrote: »

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the assistance with my 2B purchase and the acquisition of the interconnect cable. These babies sure sound great and the imaging is really amazing. I have compared them to my both my Carver Amazing and KEF 104/2s speakers, but the later using Carver Sonic Holography effect. Any of my other speakers without the holography turned on really loose the depth and soundstage. The Polks sound great without it and even sound good with that circuitry engaged, but I usually listen to them with it off.

So, I get my 2Bs all settled in and set up only to find a friend has a pair of 1Cs he bought new and isn't using. He wants me to own them.

How much of difference will I hear, if any, between these speakers? I would expect to hear a difference with 2 extra tweet and 4 extra woofs! They both represent the best or last version of each model, so they should be the most refined, right? Threads here indicate as much.

I am trying to get over and listen to his soon. In the meantime, what do you think here? I got my 2Bs locally for a great price, no shipping cost, and they cleaned up very nicely, now looking excellent. The 1Cs I expect to look like new as well being one owner and stored for many years. Right now, his asking price is twice what I paid for the 2Bs and I don't expect them to sound twice as good:)

Thanks in advance for your feedback and comments.

Both are great speakers and can be left alone or modded to your heart's content.

Stock, the 1C's are better. In a fully modded state, it's a really tough call with maybe a half-percent tilt toward the 2B (which is also less costly to mod).

falconcry72

You can never own too many SDA's!:razz:

The fact that the 1C's cost twice as much is irrelevant. If the 2B's had cost $1, and the 1C's cost $3, would you not buy them because they cost three times as much? Hell no!

As long as they're appropriately priced, their proportional cost to the 2B's shouldn't matter much, and if you were going to replace the 2B's with the 1C's, then the difference in price would be based on what you could sell the 2b's for, not what you paid for them.


Anyway, I own both and love both, but I would keep the 1C's if I had to let one go.


Go get your ears on them. Get them in your place if possible. If they're cheap enough, you could buy'em, try'em, and then flip'em at no loss.

heiney9

IMO, the 1C's are the sweetspot for SDA's and just about the best all around SDA going. They fit in most rooms, are easier to drive than earlier models or the SRS2's, most models (check the serial numbers) can be used with the AI-1 interphase to allow non-common ground amps to be used. Most have the simpler, single board x-over.

Don't get me wrong the big ones are nice too, if you have the gear and room to take advantage. The last gen 2B's are very nice as well.

If it were me, and perhaps I'm slightly biased, I'd go for the 1C's as long as you don't overpay for them. Are they worth 3 times the price of a nice pair of later 2B's, no I don't think so. Are they worth a premium because they are minty, yes certainly.

H9

heiney9

DracoAmericanus wrote: »

A friend of mine has posed a question about partial modding my 1B's my seperating the sda effect from the tweeters using spare parts to set up the tweets as they are in the 1C's, this would take some work but it's not out side of what we can do, has anyone done this and would it be worth the work to make the twwets not part of the sda effect for them, has any one tried this?

1B's have the tweets like the 1C's already so it won't be difficult at all.

1A's have side by side tweets and one of the tweets (outer) is a dimensional tweet. There is no way to make this set-up like the 1B or 1C since the cabinet can't be altered in such a way as to do that. You can disconnect the dimensional tweeter as many have done and documented, but you can't physically move the tweeters into the same position as the 1C's, then you'd have to get 1C x-overs to make the progressive point source work.

So no, it can't be done

H9

evhudsons

I've heard the 1c's and they are fantastic. I am partial to my crs+ but they lack the bass that the 1c's have. In fact the 1c's have perfect bass, they sound like subs when music or movies call for it depending on the source. The 2b would be similar to my crs+ but with more bass. My advice is to get both anyway, the worst that you would have is a potential to have a ht setup and a 2 channel setup. I've got my eyes peeled for local deals because if I get my hands on some 1c's then I'll have that in my ht setup, and my crs+ for my mancave 2 channel setup. If you wind up not wanting one it's no problem to sell. I seriously doubt you will want to.

You can upgrade either one as fast or slow as you want, and the fun is in taking your time and enjoying each new change for the better.

yeah, get both. If you don't like the 1c's drive them down to key west and I'll take them off your hands!

cnh

One question that needs to be asked here is the size of your room. In smaller/mid rooms the 2Bs are fine. The 1Cs do better in more reasonably sized but not huge rooms. And if you're trying to fill an entire basement space, gotta go with the monster SDA-SRS series. Although there is more involved than just this.

You do need a bit more space to take advantage of the greater bass pressurization levels on larger SDAs. But in the end, you really need to hear both in "your" space and decide.

I do agree with Brock that the 1Cs seem to be the SDA sweet spot (nice description).

Have fun, sounds like you have the time to do the audition/comparison!

cnh

gdb

@DracoAmericanus, the baffle CAN be reworked to place a single tweeter in the center, IF, done by someone who also knows how to extract little plastic plugs ! JK, it really isn't a big deal though.

heiney9

Here is a pair of SDA 1A's. Please enlighten us as to where you get the extra real estate from?







How do you stack the tweeters exactly like the 1B or 1C? Pictured below

heiney9

He asked about making it like the 1C, not adding a single tweeter to the center. That would be a very half assed way of doing it and I'm not even sure of the results. IMO, disconnecting the dimensional tweeter is the best way to go, and that's still less than ideal.

H9

Phasewolf

I was the one trying too talk Draco into letting me try and rebuild the 1b tweeters like the 1c we are friends and and I was going to pickup the parts myself and what not. I really wanted too see how it would sound and if it sucked well then you just simple undo it and no harm done.

heiney9

Phasewolf wrote: »

I was the one trying too talk Draco into letting me try and rebuild the 1b tweeters like the 1c we are friends and and I was going to pickup the parts myself and what not. I really wanted too see how it would sound and if it sucked well then you just simple undo it and no harm done.

If he has 1B's they are already like 1C's in the tweeter department. Aren't you the same one what's want to swap MW's in a pair of 2.3's.

Knock yourselves out........I dunno what parts you need, IMO, the first step is to disconnect the dimensional tweeter and listen for awhile (I am assuming he has side by side tweeters) of the SDA 1A.

H9

EndersShadow

cnh wrote: »

One question that needs to be asked here is the size of your room. In smaller/mid rooms the 2Bs are fine. The 1Cs do better in more reasonably sized but not huge rooms. And if you're trying to fill an entire basement space, gotta go with the monster SDA-SRS series. Although there is more involved than just this.

You do need a bit more space to take advantage of the greater bass pressurization levels on larger SDAs. But in the end, you really need to hear both in "your" space and decide.

He's running a pair of Carver AL-III's if I remember correctly in this same room, so he's got a decent sized room. I believe this is a picture of it (taken from another site)

http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15635

heiney9

If that's the room then the 1C's for sure. Is this going to be for 2 channel? Or is all that other stuff going to be in the front stage of the speakers? Sda's really shouldn't have anything inbetween them or on either side of of the L and R speaker. They need a minimum of 3 feet on the outer sides of the speakers and the distance in the middle between the speakers should be about equal to the distance you are sitting from them, give or take and really no less than 4 feet.

The sweet spot is exactly in the middle. The other advantage of the newer generation SDA's like the 1C's and newer is when other people aren't in the sweetspot (off axis) the sound doesn't suffer as much as it does with the older SDA's.


H9

gdb

heiney9 wrote: »

Here is a pair of SDA 1A's. Please enlighten us as to where you get the extra real estate from?








How do you stack the tweeters exactly like the 1B or 1C? Pictured below

If you'll notice, I wrote single tweeter. that would entail routing out a rectangular area (encompassing both existing tweeters) with a rabbet and fitting a "dutchman"/patch with a centered tweeter cutout into the rectanglular hole. Stacked? I'd have to fabricate a new, full baffle, which is what I would do for myself, either way. (single or dual stacked) The "tricky" part is removal of the baffle. (for those that don't know how)

gdb

FWIW.....on certain material, I really like the sound from my 1As and their dimensional tweeters.:eek:

heiney9

My point is, it's a lot of work (even if you have the tools and enjoy it) for little to no payoff and even some detriment. It's better to just buy the proper SDA. If they (the 2 gentlemen) want to pursue it, knock yourselves out. But you are not going to get satisfactory results and end up butchering them (Frankenpolks) and they will be of no value.

H9

inspiredsports

gdb wrote: »

If you'll notice, I wrote single tweeter. that would entail routing out a rectangular area (encompassing both existing tweeters) with a rabbet and fitting a "dutchman"/patch with a centered tweeter cutout into the rectanglular hole. Stacked? I'd have to fabricate a new, full baffle, which is what I would do for myself, either way. (single or dual stacked) The "tricky" part is removal of the baffle. (for those that don't know how)

But then you would not have the "progressive point source" array derived fron the 2-tweeter 1B and 1C designs.

But it brings me to the point about why I prefer the 2B over the 1C by a fraction of a hair. A single point source RDO198-1 is a thing of beauty

heiney9

inspiredsports wrote: »

But then you would not have the "progressive point source" array derived fron the 2-tweeter 1B and 1C designs.

Apples and oranges, Draco's was talking about making them a progessive point source, gdb was talking about moving a single tweeter to the center position.

H9

inspiredsports

heiney9 wrote: »

Apples and oranges, Draco's was talking about making them a progessive point source, gdb was talking about moving a single tweeter to the center position.

H9

Correct. We are in perfect agreement.

As you accurately stated, you CAN NOT properly do that (create a progressive point soruce array) with the 1A.

heiney9

inspiredsports wrote: »

Correct. And as you accurately stated, you CAN NOT properly do tht wiht the 1A.

At this point we have no idea what speakers Draco's has. If they are 1B's then the point is moot, if they are 1A's he can't make them a progressive point source because of the cabinet and other reasons. I also wouldn't recommend moving a single tweeter to the center position on the 1A's unless you plan on keeping them.

That's all I have on this subject.

H9

inspiredsports

heiney9 wrote: »

At this point we have no idea what speakers Draco's has. If they are 1B's then the point is moot, if they are 1A's he can't make them a progressive point source for other reasons than the cabinet. I also wouldn't recommend moving a single tweeter to the center position on the 1A's unless you plan on keeping them.

That's all I have on this subject.

H9

I'm out too, with the closing comment that somewhere there's a thread about someone centering a single tweeter on a 1A that successfully corrected the phase (and off-center if you disconnect the SDA tweeter) problems.

gdb

If the dim. tweeter is disabled only, and no further mods are done, THEN, it would sound better with the remaining tweeter centered, IMO Worth the trouble? Not really but very "doable"

"There is no way to make this set-up like the 1B or 1C since the cabinet can't be altered in such a way as to do that" H9

Au contraire mon frere!

michael1947

Frankenpolks...I like that. I'm a woodworker/cabinet maker and I could do it as many others could...But I would NOT. Some things are meant to be what they are and not what we want them to be. NOW...does anyone have or know where I can get an interconnect (pin/blade) for my 1A's.

gdb

Yeah, make one with two male RCA plugs w/ the outer "skirt" removed and a piece o wire.:cool:

Indyaudio2

EndersShadow wrote: »

He's running a pair of Carver AL-III's if I remember correctly in this same room, so he's got a decent sized room. I believe this is a picture of it (taken from another site)

http://www.carveraudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15635

Enders, nice grab of the pics of my listening room from the Carveraudio site. Thought I wrote down room dimensions... about 20 long by 15 wide. It's a combo home theater/audio room with couch on main level and elevated loveseat a level up to the rear. HT is all Bose Acoustimas powered with the 5 cubes and subwoofer (adequate for that purpose). Everything else you see is 2 channel. The SDAs have taken the place inboard next to the tall Carvers in the pictures where my Norman Model 9s are pictured. Correct, less than ideal for the SDA effect, but I have no choice as the ALiiis (Amazings) are king of this room, they simply sound amazing, no pun intended. The SDA2Bs do sound sweet even with the less than ideal set up. They are pretty equidistant and are a few feet from the walls, no toe in and are connected with the proper blade/blade cable. Powered by a McIntosh MC2105 at 105 RMS per channel, sound excellent.

I will try to get a listen in on the 1Cs this weekend and let you know impressions. My plans at least now were no mods, but more I read, more you guys will likely encourage me to get into that sometime soon. Thanks very much for all the input here, great thread.