My state still sucks

tonyb

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/12/30/motorcycles-bicycles-can-run-red-lights-under-new-law/

This is beyond stupid. Because they claim motorcycles and bikes are too light to trigger traffic lights, the solution is to let them blow off a red light ? Really ?? Thats safe ?? Oh you have to wait 2 minutes before blowing it off, yeah, and who's counting those 2 minutes ? I'm sure oncomming traffic, including trucks will appreciate this.

dkg999

So, I have to know I'm outside of Chicago proper (ie the municipalities less than 2mm people criteria) and then have to have a way to know I've waited at least 2 minutes. You're right, that will be abused! As a motorcycle rider I can attest to the fact that not being able to trigger the traffic light sensors and waiting forever for the light to change is a problem. I'm not sure this is the solution.

falconcry72

I thought stoplights with sensors were triggered by electricity, not weight. I was taught in a motorcycle safety class to turn your bike off and back on because the electric starter would trigger the sensor.

EndersShadow

Tony, it could be worse.... you could live in CA.............

exalted512

I don't see why it's stupid. There are provisions going around the country for this. After 2 minutes, the signal is to be treated as a stop sign, so you're not going to get cut off anymore than you would at any stop sign.

Also, if you're on a motorcycle, you're a lot less likely to pull out in front of a big rig unless you're an idiot...but then darwinism will come into effect. I've ran stop lights on my bike for this vary reason...and I only wait about a minute. I usually just try to avoid those situations, but it happens regardless.
-Cody

SDA1C

I've never seen one triggered by weight. (not saying there aren't any) I only know of the electromagnetic type as far as in gorund sensors. The Motorcycle or bicycle doesn't have enough mass to trigger a change in inductance.

exalted512

There's several different methods...weight and movement based ones hardly ever pick up motorcycles. The company I work for is testing new technology that will hopefully alleviate it.
-Cody

evhudsons

I put industrial magnets on my bicycle to help trigger the lights.

WilliamM2

The lights around here are magnetic. Since motorcycles are mostly aluminum, there isn't enough magnetic metal to trigger the lights. I don't really think it will change things much, we already have to ignore lights occasionally.

As far as bicycles, I don't see many obeying lights, stop signs, signaling turns, laws against riding on the sidewalks, or any other rules of the road. I've never heard of one getting a ticket either.

quadzilla

This has been implemented other places, and it does actually make things safer. I don't know how many times I've been at a light that wouldn't change, and had to almost pull out into the intersection to get the idiot behind me to pull up far enough to trigger the light so we could go.

Not sure where you're at William, but I know plenty of cyclists that have gotten tickets for doing stupid shi... stuff. I've also been hit twice by drivers ignoring the fact that there was already a vehicle in that lane, coming into my lane and then... hitting me. And that's not even getting into all the times I've had stuff thrown at me, or even the time I was shot at (yes, with a gun) while riding. None of them got a ticket, or anything else out of it.

But I do use signals, stop where the law requires, etc. I also know a lot of people on bicycles (not necessarily cyclists, and there is a difference, though a lot of cyclists are just as bad) don't, and for them, I'm sorry.

tonyb

Here's my beef, say your cruising down a road at 40-50 miles an hour, in the right lane comming up on an intersection that may have trees or another structure blocking your view of the right side of that intersection. Under normal law, if you had the green light, you had nothing to worry about, generaly speaking. Under the new law, the motorcycle can shoot out infront of you, he won't see you comming, he waited, so he is in the right of way ? To me that puts lives at risk....greatly. That 2 million cap on population covers every suburb around chicago, no suburb has that many people. I know plenty of motorcycle riders and never once had I heard them complain about red lights not switching, though I'm not saying it doesn't happen. More buisness for the insurance companies and lawyers I guess.

exalted512

Really?

Are you going to start avoiding all areas with stop signs as well? Where does it say it gives them the right of way?
-Cody

tonyb

No, but if it was a stop sign, chances are the speed limit isn't as high. Does this law make traffic safety better or worse ? Thats the question. As far as the right of way goes, I don't know, but each in my example is obeying the law. Which means insurance companies and lawyers would hammer it out.

quadzilla

But sadly, that doesn't mean that another person driving a car won't blow through a red light. I've seen it happen plenty of times. But by Tony's logic, that can't happen because he has the right of way. At least in the case of bikes (both kinds), it's pretty likely that they'll be watching really hard for some **** in a cage doing 15-20 over the speed limit and hauling butt through the intersection, meaning they'll likely be extremely careful when going through an intersection on a red.

Also, none of the other states that have implemented this have seen an increase in intersection accidents, so...

exalted512

tonyb wrote: »

No, but if it was a stop sign, chances are the speed limit isn't as high. Does this law make traffic safety better or worse ? Thats the question. As far as the right of way goes, I don't know, but each in my example is obeying the law. Which means insurance companies and lawyers would hammer it out.

Traffic lights are used for volume of traffic and special circumstances (school zones, parks, etc) rather than the speed limit.

In the case you described above, the motorcyclist is NOT obeying the law. It's not like after 2 minutes, you can ignore everyone else on the road and proceed on your merry way. After 2 minutes, you are to treat the light as a stop sign. Pulling out in front of someone is not legal, therefore not allowed, explicitly or implicitly, by these laws.
-Cody

pitdogg2

falconcry72 wrote: »

I thought stoplights with sensors were triggered by electricity, not weight. I was taught in a motorcycle safety class to turn your bike off and back on because the electric starter would trigger the sensor.

In most of Illinois the trigger is electro-magnetic not weight. Your car truch covers the sensor to trip it. A motorcycle must stradle the line to MAYBE trip it. If a motorcycle is inside the square it won't see it.


All I can agree here is that OUR STATE SUCKS BIG ONE'S

EndersShadow

My question is what would that mean for liability purposes in an T-bone type accident? Would the motorcycle have the right of way even though he has a red, or would the car that hit him?

exalted512

EndersShadow wrote: »

My question is what would that mean for liability purposes in an T-bone type accident? Would the motorcycle have the right of way even though he has a red, or would the car that hit him?

exalted512 wrote: »

After 2 minutes, you are to treat the light as a stop sign.
-Cody

exalted512 wrote: »

After 2 minutes, the signal is to be treated as a stop sign
-Cody

The sign is to be treated as a stop sign. If you pull out from a stop sign and someone that didn't have a stop sign hit you, its your fault.

Hopefully this clears things up.
-Cody

P.S. It's to be treated as a stop sign after 2 minutes.

quadzilla

Another point that could be made is that in rural areas, I see stop signs next to highways where the speed limit is 70. So that sort of blows that whole "areas with stop signs have lower speed limits".

tonyb

I'm talkin' suburbia here gents, not rural area's, we don't have 70 mph speed limits in suburbs. Lets try this again, car is on right lane, has green light, cruising thru the intersection, doesn't have a clear view of the right side of that intersection and neither would the motorcyle waiting his 2 minutes to go thru the red light. He can't see the oncomming car, and the car can't see the bike. He goes and gets flattened. Old law, the bike stays put until he has a green light, new law, he can go and greatly increase his chances of getting killed.
So I ask again, does this law increase traffic safety, or decrease it ? Rural area's aside.

exalted512

If a car in the right lane doesnt have a clear view of the right side of the intersection, then he won't have a clear view of the light. So A) There wouldn't be a light there or The speed limit would reflect the danger of that particular stretch of road where a vehicle could slow down in time.

In ANY case, if the motorcyclist can't see enough of the road to initiate the turn from the approximate time it would take a car to come out of the blind spot and cross the intersection, he would be crossing the intersection ILLEGALLY. As I have stated, IT IS TO BE TREATED AS A STOP SIGN. It is the duty of the person AT THE STOP SIGN to cross the intersection safely. If he cannot do so, he would have to wait until the light turns green. If it never turns green, then I guess we will start seeing rotting corpses hanging off motorcycles at red lights.
-Cody

quadzilla

tonyb wrote: »

I'm talkin' suburbia here gents, not rural area's, we don't have 70 mph speed limits in suburbs. Lets try this again, car is on right lane, has green light, cruising thru the intersection, doesn't have a clear view of the right side of that intersection and neither would the motorcyle waiting his 2 minutes to go thru the red light. He can't see the oncomming car, and the car can't see the bike. He goes and gets flattened. Old law, the bike stays put until he has a green light, new law, he can go and greatly increase his chances of getting killed.
So I ask again, does this law increase traffic safety, or decrease it ? Rural area's aside.

Man, your opinion of other people must be pretty low. First, how is that any different than if someone in the crossing road was turning right into the same lane the car was traveling in? Second, don't you think people are going to look as they pull out into the intersection? They're aware that a car could be coming. Finally, this type of law has been in effect in Idaho since 1982. If people were getting killed left and right because of this law, don't you think it would have been repealed by now? Or did Idaho get taken over by hippies on bikes and motorcycle gangs while I wasn't looking? So really, take your concern trolling some where else.

And now, some facts:

http://btaoregon.org/2009/01/frequently-asked-questions-about-idaho-stop-law/

From the end:
Q: Are there more bicycle crashes in Idaho?
A: No, their rates are comparable to all other states.

rebuy

I personally have over 100K miles logged on motorcycles and have owned the largest stock models produced by Honda. I have ridden in many states and experienced many different types of road sensors. Some would change with a 850 pound bike sitting on them, some would not. You learn where to ride onto most sensors and can have good results, sometimes they just don't read bikes. If you treat the intersection like a stop sign after two minutes, You better be a good rider and make sure you don't get hit by a cage. If you can't do that, get different transportation.
I like being able to go if a light won't change but I'd always be safe doing it. Pay attention to the other guy, only trust yourself.

Syndil

No such laws here in IN or KY that I am aware of. And I don't believe I have ever triggered a stoplight while riding. Easy solution. Turn right, then make a legal U-turn at the next possible opportunity. Not the fastest route, for sure, but I'm never in a hurry to get where I'm going if I'm on my bike.

nadams

It's not legal to do so in PA (that I'm aware of), but I've had to do it several times myself. As with ANY time I pull out from an intersection on the motorcycle, I make very sure there's no oncoming traffic. This is not something I would do at a blind intersection...

And as Cody states, the motorcyclist would be the at-fault party in the event of an accident where he or she pulled through a red light.

Honestly, I don't see this as a big deal... in PA you can turn right on red at most lights already

SDA1C

rebuy wrote: »

Pay attention to the other guy, only trust yourself.

Exactly^^^! Stop light-Stop sign-Don Garlets or Miss Daisy crusing down the road-Who gives a shi7. When you are on a bike, Ride like they are ALL out to get you!

heiney9

Tony, don't forget about the doubling of the fee's to travel on the toll roads. 2012 has rung in with some really stupid laws and unneccesary "raping" of fee's.

H9

tonyb

I know man, total B.S.

For the rest of you, you still haven't answer the question. Does the law make traffic more safe or less ? Pretty simple yes or no question.
It's not about turning right on a red, it's about turning left on a red,going straight across on a red, is that safer or not ?

Quad- a simple question is not trolling. If you don't agree, fine....state it and be done. Maybe those who actualy live in this state and know the roads are more suited to answer the question.

Joe08867

I have found that when a sensor does not pick up my bike with me on it. Almost 1000lbs I set the kickstand down and it works everytime. Don't ask me why but an old timer taught me this and it works.

Weird law but if people are smart it shouldn't be an issue.

exalted512

Actually, that is not a yes or no question, it's a more or less safe question:cool:

It probably makes it less safe. Now there is a chance someone might get hit where they might not have before.

Having said that, if it is not safe to cross and one does so anyway, that's just as illegal as running a red light, so the point is mute.

Laws are not always about making things safer. A lot of the time, laws are made for convenience and practicality, especially in the context of traffic laws.
-Cody

exalted512

Joe08867 wrote: »

I have found that when a sensor does not pick up my bike with me on it. Almost 1000lbs I set the kickstand down and it works everytime. Don't ask me why but an old timer taught me this and it works.

Weird law but if people are smart it shouldn't be an issue.

The metal from your kickstand is closer to the magnetic field sensing trigger. My kick stand is aluminum, so that trick doesnt work

And my bike with me on it is right around 550lbs...lol
-Cody