The culmination of years of effort -
VR3
Posts: 28,648
This post is a long overdue review of gear that I have used for years now, while it has indeed evolved overtime it has remained constant and what I feel is a "standard' to what I hold other gear to. I have been on this forum a long time and it is interesting to look back and think of my Polk RT35i and Yamaha HTR receiver playing Creed's weathered CD (first CD played on my first hifi system) and to where I am now, it is truly amazing...
The gear list is as follows -
Mains- Tyler Acoustics Super Towers (ClarityCap MR & SA Ext Crossovers, wired with DH Labs T-14)
Sub- Custom TC Sounds LMS-R 12
Main Amplifier- Odyssey Khartago Extreme Monoblocks
Subwoofer Amplifier- Dayton SA-1000
Preamp- Odyssey Candela
CD Player- Symphonic Line Klarheit II
Interconnects - DH Labs Air Matrix
Speaker Wire - DH Labs Q-10
Power Cords - Stock
Introduction -
When we all start out in audio we are surrounded with words such as airy, refined, crisp, etc etc - words that we in our minds try to interpret and analyze our current system since we may not have other systems to go by and see if our systems are producing these descriptive words. For years and years I thought previous systems I owned captured this. Another thing that always escaped me is spending big bucks on a source or a preamp - for some reason they just are not as cool as a big **** amplifier that produces massive amount of power and current, making that utility meter spin one hundred miles an hour... None the less one of the first steps to going from an entry level system to a hi fi system by far was getting serious at the source and the preamplifier, understanding that my sound was only going to be as good as the signal being amplified by those monster power meter turning amplifiers was finally understood. Having a strong, equal basis from the source to the speakers is so important and your cables in between are equally as important.
I guess what I will try to capture in this review is what I experienced when my system finally captured so many of these "terms" we hear and how I knew it...
The sound -
For a long time when I listened to music there was imaging but the best way to describe this imaging that I hear so often is three dimensionally two dimensional. Say what? No seriously - imagine you have "layers" in your image and the layers are flat but they are layers none the less. So yes indeed you have depth to your sound and so forth but do you really have "spatial imaging" that you can reach out and touch the singer, able to envision the singers mouth opening and closing, the tongue clicking the lips and gums? On the acoustic guitar, actually sensing the body resonating, instead of it being a localized sound it turns into a 5" thick guitar, seemingly appearing as if a guitar was in the room with you?
The best way to describe these differences is as if there is nothing in the room with you but the band - there is no "weight" to anything, meaning there is no restrictions on the sound, pure unrestricted dynamics, no shelf to the sound - just pure reproduction of the source material. The louder you crank the knob, the crisper, deeper, weightless sound that we all want to hear.
These are things I started experience as my final system has come together. It is one of those things that all of the sudden you wake up one day, turn on the system and you are presented with what you possibly would feel is a "sonic perfection" - you sit back saying over and over to yourself, damn!
We should accept no less I think than when you sit down, as long as the recording is capable, you should be able to reach out and seemingly sit beside the guitarist and tap your foot along with the music.
Another thing is height and width, I like my presentation to be TALL - meaning I like my singer near the ceiling, roughly 6.5-7ft in the air as if I am sitting in an audience and they are on a stage and this was another thing I noticed as my system progressed.
I sometimes wish I could somehow record the sound I hear on a daily basis and share it with the world as I truly feel it is world class in most everyway having listened to systems costing many many times what I have invested and have yet to experience the same weightless, unrestricted presentation I hear...
Conclusion -
It has been an extremely long journey and I have gone through dozens of amps, pres, cdps, speakers, cables, the works and I am happy with my outcome. I believe this system will be the main system I have for many years - it has been steady in the abode since around 2008 with no signs of leaving. I am sure like most here who have reached similar points in their systems a component here and there may be switched out or upgraded but overall the main components will stay the same. I just wanted to try to share the sound I hear in hopes that a newbie in our forum or in this hobby could read and maybe visualize what I tried to visualize for YEARS. I just never understood completely what this sound could possibly sound like when the current system you have is the best you have ever heard. Enjoy the tunes folks! Gear is great and all but the music has to come first lest we forget what this hobby is all about!
The gear list is as follows -
Mains- Tyler Acoustics Super Towers (ClarityCap MR & SA Ext Crossovers, wired with DH Labs T-14)
Sub- Custom TC Sounds LMS-R 12
Main Amplifier- Odyssey Khartago Extreme Monoblocks
Subwoofer Amplifier- Dayton SA-1000
Preamp- Odyssey Candela
CD Player- Symphonic Line Klarheit II
Interconnects - DH Labs Air Matrix
Speaker Wire - DH Labs Q-10
Power Cords - Stock
Introduction -
When we all start out in audio we are surrounded with words such as airy, refined, crisp, etc etc - words that we in our minds try to interpret and analyze our current system since we may not have other systems to go by and see if our systems are producing these descriptive words. For years and years I thought previous systems I owned captured this. Another thing that always escaped me is spending big bucks on a source or a preamp - for some reason they just are not as cool as a big **** amplifier that produces massive amount of power and current, making that utility meter spin one hundred miles an hour... None the less one of the first steps to going from an entry level system to a hi fi system by far was getting serious at the source and the preamplifier, understanding that my sound was only going to be as good as the signal being amplified by those monster power meter turning amplifiers was finally understood. Having a strong, equal basis from the source to the speakers is so important and your cables in between are equally as important.
I guess what I will try to capture in this review is what I experienced when my system finally captured so many of these "terms" we hear and how I knew it...
The sound -
For a long time when I listened to music there was imaging but the best way to describe this imaging that I hear so often is three dimensionally two dimensional. Say what? No seriously - imagine you have "layers" in your image and the layers are flat but they are layers none the less. So yes indeed you have depth to your sound and so forth but do you really have "spatial imaging" that you can reach out and touch the singer, able to envision the singers mouth opening and closing, the tongue clicking the lips and gums? On the acoustic guitar, actually sensing the body resonating, instead of it being a localized sound it turns into a 5" thick guitar, seemingly appearing as if a guitar was in the room with you?
The best way to describe these differences is as if there is nothing in the room with you but the band - there is no "weight" to anything, meaning there is no restrictions on the sound, pure unrestricted dynamics, no shelf to the sound - just pure reproduction of the source material. The louder you crank the knob, the crisper, deeper, weightless sound that we all want to hear.
These are things I started experience as my final system has come together. It is one of those things that all of the sudden you wake up one day, turn on the system and you are presented with what you possibly would feel is a "sonic perfection" - you sit back saying over and over to yourself, damn!
We should accept no less I think than when you sit down, as long as the recording is capable, you should be able to reach out and seemingly sit beside the guitarist and tap your foot along with the music.
Another thing is height and width, I like my presentation to be TALL - meaning I like my singer near the ceiling, roughly 6.5-7ft in the air as if I am sitting in an audience and they are on a stage and this was another thing I noticed as my system progressed.
I sometimes wish I could somehow record the sound I hear on a daily basis and share it with the world as I truly feel it is world class in most everyway having listened to systems costing many many times what I have invested and have yet to experience the same weightless, unrestricted presentation I hear...
Conclusion -
It has been an extremely long journey and I have gone through dozens of amps, pres, cdps, speakers, cables, the works and I am happy with my outcome. I believe this system will be the main system I have for many years - it has been steady in the abode since around 2008 with no signs of leaving. I am sure like most here who have reached similar points in their systems a component here and there may be switched out or upgraded but overall the main components will stay the same. I just wanted to try to share the sound I hear in hopes that a newbie in our forum or in this hobby could read and maybe visualize what I tried to visualize for YEARS. I just never understood completely what this sound could possibly sound like when the current system you have is the best you have ever heard. Enjoy the tunes folks! Gear is great and all but the music has to come first lest we forget what this hobby is all about!
- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
Post edited by VR3 on
Comments
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Nice write up, Trey.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Nice!
Music Nirvana is always one tweak away, but it looks like you have finally found it.Polk Audio SDA CRS+ crossover 4.1TL by Trey/VR3 (Rings and custom stand by Larry)-Polk Audio SDA SRS2 crossovers by Trey/VR3Parasound HCA1500aYamaha rxa-3070 with musicast-Celestion SL6S presence,- sl9 surround backNHTsuper1's surroundMagnepan SMGParasound 1500pre- Sofia "Baby" tube amp - Monitor Audio Silver RX2 Marantz 2230/B&Kst140Technics 1200mk2 Gamertag: IslandBerserker I am but a infinitesimally small point meeting the line of infinity in the SDA universe -
Nice write up, Trey.
Thanks Jesse!
Your rig is on the short list of ones I would like to hear as I know you sport top notch gear!
Everett I need to hear your setup now that you are experiencing that synergy on the Marantz!
Enjoy gents! Music makes the soul warm and the world turn - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Good grief, man....Mopar orange on you walls?
Nice write up and you certainly have come a long ways from the Sid the Kid days...
BDTI plan for the future. - F1Nut -
Great write up Trey! Would love to hear those Tyler's! But who the hell broke your screen? :razz:--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
Nice write up!!
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Hey Trey, nice rig. Have you mentioned anywhere how the Custom Khartagos sound compared to the Kismet amps?
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Thanks guys!!
The orange is not near as bad as a flash makes it seem.
As far as Kismet versus the Khartago? The Khartago are using Symphonic Line transformers and they are extremely warm amplifiers and I much prefer them over the Kismet... bar none...- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Glad you're enjoying your rig
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
Good grief, man....Mopar orange on you walls?
Nice write up and you certainly have come a long ways from the Sid the Kid days...
BDT
Ditto....especialy on the Mopar Orange.
Glad we all set you and your wallet on the path of self destruction. Nice Trey, very nice.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Nice post. Now we just need to break you away from the dirty digital peasants and bring you over to the analog master race. Turntable: Empire 208
Arm: Rega 300
Cart: Shelter 501 III
Phono Pre: Aural Thrills
Digital: Pioneer DV-79ai
Pre: Conrad Johnson ET3 SE
Amp: Conrad Johnson Evolution 2000
Cables: Cardas Neutral Reference
Speakers: SDA 2.3TL, heavily modified -
That is awesome news. I've heard similar murmurings from another friend of mine who went from amps like the ones you have to some stock Kismets. In the end, he returned the Kismets and just had Klaus put his Khartagos in a Stratos case to accommodate even more tweaks like added capacitance, etc.
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You're getting ready to make some major changes, aren't you? :cheesygrin:Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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Whoops, double-tap.Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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You're getting ready to make some major changes, aren't you? :cheesygrin:
I think so Steve, that green toy robot is on the way out for a new T-rex.HT SYSTEM-
Sony 850c 4k
Pioneer elite vhx 21
Sony 4k BRP
SVS SB-2000
Polk Sig. 20's
Polk FX500 surrounds
Cables-
Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable
Kitchen
Sonos zp90
Grant Fidelity tube dac
B&k 1420
lsi 9's -
Nice room. Would love to hear it. Nice write up!
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Thanks guys!
The t-rex one was funny! LOL! I have a few T-Rex transformers too!
As far as the Kismets go - it was pretty apparent the Khartagos were superior as soon as I plugged them in... there was far more warmth to them, better bass. The Kismet amplifiers MIGHT of had a ever so slightly better staging to them but they were incredibly sterile...
Thanks gents!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
You certainly did kick the tires on quite alot of gear, yes, especially amplifiers, but other stuff as well. You should prob. leave one toy in the rig just for ole times sake.
RT1 -
If you have trouble with that screen, get ahold of PFB, he will give you a few pointers for repair.
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Nice write up Trey. I'd love to hear your hot rodded speakers.
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Great set up! I have yet to hear a set of Tyler Acoustics but I am looking forward to it.
Your description of the audio experience also hits home. I can remember the first time I heard the 3D/2D layering you refer to above and it was unsettling, startling actually, to find oneself in the middle of a sound field that was on all sides of one coming from just two speakers. I remember it well, the speakers were a fairly expensive set of Focal towers with Beryllium tweeters with amplification I can't remember--at the moment. But I remember backing up a few steps to make sure that I was actually hearing this and not "imagining" it. In my experience, not "many" systems do that as well as what I heard back then--but I certainly could not "afford" to reproduce that particular system.
Enjoy!
cnhCurrently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!
Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
[sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash] -
Thanks guys!!
Appreciate the comments....
Screen is fine
As far as the Tylers go, they became totally different speakers once modded, that is for sure!
Thanks again gents!- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Very nice write up Trey.
I for one like these kind of write ups, but alot of people seem scared to post about their system.
I would rather read this stuff,"everyday Joe's system", than the junk they sell in magazines.Power Cords - Stock
GULP!:eek:
Not sure, what exactly is a "stock" power cord?Testing
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Straps up the boots, slaps on the flame suit -
I find the stock cords provide excellent performance for my system, I dont know if it is because I have dedicated circuits and 12 guage wiring all the way back to the main panel and hospital grade outlets - but the difference the MIT cables had at my Mom's house running on a single 15 amp circuit and power strips and such is no where what they did here hence why I sold them...
I have no real desire to ever buy aftermarket powercables... my amps have some of that I made but they are nothing special for sure... - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
I have a 10 ga dedicated circuit on my 2 ch. system (VH Audio Cryoed).
Still not sure what a "stock power cable" is?
12 ga dedicated on my HT.
Stock?
I have heard of them, but still not sure.
Testing
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You know I am just ribbing ya!:cheesygrin:
If they worked for me, I would use them!
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Indeed
Yeah Lightman1 (member here) hooked me up - each amp has a dedicated 20 amp, the pre/cdp/sources have their own 20 amp, the other outlets in the room (sub uses it) is a 15 amp and of course the lighting circuit has its own (I use dimmers) - all dedicated circuits go back to the main breaker...
I know! I am a huge believer in wire, for sure - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
VERY, VERY nice system BTW!
I would love to hear that in person.Testing
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Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »Yeah Lightman1 (member here) hooked me up - each amp has a dedicated 20 amp, the pre/cdp/sources have their own 20 amp, the other outlets in the room (sub uses it) is a 15 amp and of course the lighting circuit has its own (I use dimmers) - all dedicated circuits go back to the main breaker...
Great!Vr3MxStyler2k3 wrote: »Straps up the boots, slaps on the flame suit -
I find the stock cords provide excellent performance for my system, I dont know if it is because I have dedicated circuits and 12 guage wiring all the way back to the main panel and hospital grade outlets - but the difference the MIT cables had at my Mom's house running on a single 15 amp circuit and power strips and such is no where what they did here hence why I sold them...
I have no real desire to ever buy aftermarket powercables... my amps have some of that I made but they are nothing special for sure...
No need for a flame suit since what you experienced makes perfect sense. The purpose of power tweaks (power cords, line filters, audio grade fuses, etc.) is to reduce the amount of electrical noise reaching your electronics. Assuming the power company is supplying stable, relatively low noise power to begin with (2.5% THD or less), dedicated circuits go a long way torward reducing electrical noise. Further electrical noise abatement devices may have little to no effect in such an environment. Ear sensitivity and gear resolution are also factors.Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country! -
Darth (I know you sound like Darth Vader in person:biggrin:!), you have a pm.:cheesygrin:Testing
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