Krell KAV-250A Power Amp

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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,244
    edited December 2011
    I would love to hear that Krell, my heart and ears are really set on a Pass Labs amp my only problem is the depth of it and putting it in the middle of the floor is not an option right now, maybe someday.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2011
    Depth??? I don't think the Pass amps are that much deeper than a comparable high end amp. Are they? I know my Aleph is about 4-6" deeper than the Adcom 545 I had. But I don't think the Pass stuff is larger than most. I could be wrong since I never really was concerned about that so probably never paid any attention.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,244
    edited December 2011
    The 250 is like 22" deep as well as the 350 but I don't feel these amps were made to be in a rack. My shelves are 19" deep.
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2011
    I see, never had my gear in a rack so like I said, I was probably oblivious to that fact. They get so hot you couldn't keep them in a rack anyway so even if your rack could fit 22" in depth unless it was really open the heat would be too much.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,244
    edited December 2011
    Agreed!!! That's why I don't have one just yet. I knew it would be a bad idea.
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 2011
    heiney9 wrote: »
    ...Krell can be a little too forward for my tastes ...


    Well, the KAV-250a is unrelenting, that's for sure. I think it would do well with a vinyl, reel to reel, or other fully analog system. This amp will do a poorly implemented digital source no favors whatsoever! Luckily, my NFB-7 is a warm, dynamic, robust sounding DAC. That DAC, paired with the ARC preamp, makes a good combo for this Krell. As I said earlier, you'd have to be careful when pairing equipment to this amp. The Parasound is easy to pair, and will make anything sound good. The Krell, on the other hand, needs thought to be given upstream.

    It is accurate... almost to a fault... almost.:cool:

    H9, when you've heard Krell amps in the past, were they running off Krell preamps or other mfgs? Ever heard a Krell amp on a tubed preamp?
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 2011
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I would love to hear that Krell, my heart and ears are really set on a Pass Labs amp my only problem is the depth of it and putting it in the middle of the floor is not an option right now, maybe someday.

    Interestingly, the deepest piece in my rack is my DAC, at 17.5". The Krell is 15", the Parasound is 16" (19" with handles).
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,965
    edited December 2011
    I have heard that exact amp but only paired with SS gear. I would imagine tubes would benefit it greatly. That amp has balls, very dynamic, and seems best paired with lower efficient speakers. The harder the speaker is to drive, that amp shifts gears and can be very good, though not to my personal taste. On SS gear, it is very detailed as observed, but for me still lacks that organic tone and air. Maybe it has to do with age and how your ears change from your youth. Krell makes nice stuff, if that sound is up your alley.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 2011
    tonyb wrote: »
    Krell makes nice stuff, if that sound is up your alley.

    See, I don't really know what sound is up my alley yet, which is why I have to keep experimenting with gear. There are a handful of manufactures that will have to make their way through my system one way or another, just so I can familiarize myself with their sonic characteristics. Krell was one of those brands. Check.:wink:


    edit:

    In fact, I wasn't looking for an amp when I came across this Krell. I was sure that my next amp would be a Bryston (6 months or a year down the road), but I stubled upon a good deal and said "ah, what the hell...":biggrin:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,165
    edited December 2011
    I believe the last time I heard a Krell the associated gear was Meridian.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited December 2011
    By the sounds of it the krell would be exactly what is needed for HT. I have heard magazine reviews about krells being too much then paired up with tube pre's to tame them
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  • Drenis
    Drenis Posts: 2,871
    edited December 2011
    When I bought my TV stand, I bought it with the intention of ensuring I could fit my Pio Elite receiver which is VERY deep with out it sticking out the front. I accomplished that and my AVR, my Carver, even my HTPC with it's ridiculous deep case fits nicely without sticking out. And it has air around it to cool. :)

    Back on topic, I'd love to hear a Krell sometime.
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited December 2011
    Anyone in the NYC area who wants to give a listen to a Krell rockin the 1C's, just let me know. Paired up with my W4S DAC2 and Eddie Current Balancing Act, it really leaves me desiring very little.
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited December 2011
    CP member Ed (ESavinon) is a Krell fan. IIRC he has a KSA-250 that Carl (schwarcw) had. Carl got it from his friend Dipole Dan who used it to power his Carver Platinum Amazings and Apogee Centaurus Minors. Ed had it connected to a pair of modded Carver ASL-III"s that was passed around from Norm, to me, Noel, Ricardo, Carl then Ed. I think the order is correct and I didn't miss anyone....

    Njoy!
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • nspindel
    nspindel Posts: 5,343
    edited December 2011
    The old KSA amps make the newer KAV amps look like toys. That's a bad **** amp!
    Good music, a good source, and good power can make SDA's sing. Tubes make them dance.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,499
    edited December 2011
    The KSA's were multi-purpose amps. You could listen to music while making breakfast on them.:twisted::cheesygrin:
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 2011
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    CP member Ed (ESavinon) is a Krell fan. IIRC he has a KSA-250 that Carl (schwarcw) had. Carl got it from his friend Dipole Dan who used it to power his Carver Platinum Amazings and Apogee Centaurus Minors. Ed had it connected to a pair of modded Carver ASL-III"s that was passed around from Norm, to me, Noel, Ricardo, Carl then Ed. I think the order is correct and I didn't miss anyone....

    Njoy!

    Hey, I think I've met Dipole Dan! Carl put in touch with his friend Dan who I ended up buying some Maggies from. Good guy, small world!:biggrin:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 2011
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    The KSA's were multi-purpose amps. You could listen to music while making breakfast on them.:twisted::cheesygrin:

    lol.:lol:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,965
    edited December 2011
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    See, I don't really know what sound is up my alley yet, which is why I have to keep experimenting with gear. There are a handful of manufactures that will have to make their way through my system one way or another, just so I can familiarize myself with their sonic characteristics. Krell was one of those brands. Check.:wink:
    :

    Well, thats what it's all about,experimenting. Congrats and rock on.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,338
    edited December 2011
    SCompRacer wrote: »
    CP member Ed (ESavinon) is a Krell fan. IIRC he has a KSA-250 that Carl (schwarcw) had. Carl got it from his friend Dipole Dan who used it to power his Carver Platinum Amazings and Apogee Centaurus Minors. Ed had it connected to a pair of modded Carver ASL-III"s that was passed around from Norm, to me, Noel, Ricardo, Carl then Ed. I think the order is correct and I didn't miss anyone....

    Njoy!

    Rich, you have the order correct! Ed still has the AL-III's and the bad **** Krell KSA-250. In fact, I think he bought two more:eek:
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    Hey, I think I've met Dipole Dan! Carl put in touch with his friend Dan who I ended up buying some Maggies from. Good guy, small world!:biggrin:

    Yes Ben! You have met DiPole Dan!!
    nspindel wrote: »
    The old KSA amps make the newer KAV amps look like toys. That's a bad **** amp!

    Oh! You are so right!

    Check out the pictures of Dan's KSA-250. I would have kept it except the thing was so big!! Long and heavy! This 140 lb. pure Class A amp needed it own 20 amp circuit. It could make a pair of swimming pool speakers sound good. It has so much power it melted the fuse hoder on the AL-III. Check out the Pics, the second picture give you aperception of how deep this amp is. It will not fit in a cabinet, it has to sit on the floor by itself, with a lot of ventilation. Stable to 1 or 2 ohm it is dead quiet, very dynamic and has the power to start a revolution in a small country!!

    KrellandCarvers009.jpg

    KrellandCarvers010.jpg
    Carl

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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 2011
    Nice amp, Carl!:smile:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited December 2011
    Hey, what do you guys think about the Rotel 1090 in comparison to the Krell KAV-250a and parasound HCA-2200mkii mentioned here???
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • schwarcw
    schwarcw Posts: 7,338
    edited December 2011
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    Hey, what do you guys think about the Rotel 1090 in comparison to the Krell KAV-250a and parasound HCA-2200mkii mentioned here???

    There really isn't a comparison Ben. Seriously, both of those other amps are toys compared to the Krell. The Rotel is big, but it won't deliver the sound you want. I love Parasound, but that amp is in a different league than Krell. The KAV vs the KSA? Just look at the pictures side by side. The KSA-250 is like a man playing with boys. These 20 year old amps still sell for around $2,500 - $3,000 (or more) and are worth every penny. I would even buy a Krell KSA-100 before I bought the Rotel, Parasound or the smaller KAV.
    Carl

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  • James Zep
    James Zep Posts: 19
    edited October 2012
    Hi everyone,

    I’m a newbie here on Polk forum and actually I register because of this thread. I won’t introduce me too much but just simply say hello everyone and tell you how mucho I appreciate this community and how much I’m glad to be here.

    So I’m having exactly the same dilemma: I have to choose between these two great amplifiers. I’ve been trough all the discussion and I can’t really decide. On one side I’ve got a Krell KRC3 as preamp so esthetically the KAV 250a/3 could be a great match even if sonically, following what has been pointed out, it might be a little bright or kind of too much “in your face sound”. On the other hand this Parasound is pretty cool. Less reputation than Krell but this is a great model. And it looks like specs don’t really help (The Parasound is a true dual mono but it does not, for example, double down at 4ohm, though I know I don’t need that). Plus I don’t pay too much attention to specs.

    I know a lot has been written and I was going for the Parasound but the last comment from SCHWARCW makes me reconsider my decision.
    “There really isn't a comparison”
    “I love Parasound, but that amp is in a different league than Krell.”

    How can you be so sure of that?
    How many of you guys believe so?

    Thanks
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  • CRESCENDOPOWER
    CRESCENDOPOWER Posts: 153
    edited October 2012
    Yes, within the "adequate" system Krell can simply destroy Parasound. Best to refer to post #15.
    Buy Polk ****!:D

    http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/assets/image/12222003154728.jpg
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