The AUDIOPHILES

F1nut

shack wrote: »

Sorry Cathy...but this is total BS.

It is just as often the other way around. The folks that have migrated to higher end gear (including cables and other tweeks) have constantly taken crap about buying into voodoo and snakeoil and being stuck-up about their gear by newcomers that want to waltz in hear and impress everyone with their "knowledge and insight". Many "longtime members" have tried to help by making recommendations of gear based on their experience and have been blasted for being snobs and audiophiles (simillar to your comment about sneering). It seems that the mere fact that you have high end gear and value the performace of it makes you a snob. Gear envy maybe?

Many of those folks no longer post here...especially about gear...for that very reason. And CP is much poorer for it IMO.

Nail, head, hammer!!!

shack

cfrizz wrote:

No it's not BS Shack, If a newbie comes on here asking about an Emotiva amp, the "audiophiles" immediately tell them to look elsewhere for something "better." Now if they could afford something better without having to buy used, they probably would. .

I stand by my original statement. If a used amp for the same price or less is a better alternative than emo...based on someone's experience and opinion...then it is perfectly ok to state that. No different than telling someone that there is no way a 50-75 wpc amp can be as good as a 200 wpc amp. Opinons...nothing more...nothing less.

F1nut

cfrizz wrote:

You can pretty much tell when they list their gear, what they are looking to achieve and at what price, and to suggest that a peice of gear that is in that price range is not good enough when in fact it is a perfect launch point for someone just starting out and will sound a hellava lot better than what they have now is just plain wrong.

Aren't you the one that touts doing it right the first time?

newrival

It doesn't happen often but I find myself agreeing with Cathy on her last point. And I'm speaking of her last statement in a vacuum. I dont, however, agree with the first assertion. I believe shack is right in that the door swings equally in both directions.

F1, I dont think it is hypocritical to say "do it right the first time," and to suggest "a perfect launch point for someone just starting out." "right" is a relative qualifier. Something can be circumstantially "right" without being the best. And really, I think, you're adding some credibility to her statement

Toolfan66

Cathy,

I have seen it go both ways since I have been here and since you have been here longer then myself I am very sure you have as well. Funny that nobody has ever givin me crap about my emo amp that runs my HT that I am happy with hell both of my systems are modest IMO and nobody has said anything about it. It's the fanboys and cable trolls that ruin it for everyone.

It's been awhile since there has been a emo/cable flame around here and I hope it stays that way. I do agree that most if not all newbies want or have a small budget for an HT rig very few come here for 2 channel stereo pleasure.

It almost as if the guys that have moved up the ladder should just keep there mouths shut and not give advice on what they have learned along the way, and I see the old timers always giving advice on used gear Adcom Rotel ect. I have yet to read a thread that says go Krell or BAT or go home so I really don't see why this thread is going to a place that it need not be..

Thread is worthless IMO..

F1nut

I wish there were audio forums full of knowledgeable, experienced **** when I started out in audio, but alas the Internet wasn't yet a twinkle in anyone's eyes. There's no doubt they would have saved me a lot of time and money in my efforts to reach a higher level. Of course, being able to take advice instead of being an overly sensitive pansy is a prerequisite to advancing up the audio ladder.

BTW, go Krell or BAT or go home. :razz:

decal

Okay I'll say it,I absolutely HATE Emo. No, not the manufacturer of electronics, the music genre.:cheesygrin:

mdaudioguy

I don't really care much for emus.

dudeinaroom

It's not like any of this is subjective. Every one should have Bose powered by Emo and that's that. I have never heard any Emo gear, and from what I have read, not going to run and do so. Yet I did recomend one to fit a price point. I have heard Bose, and don't care to again. I've heard Adcom, and currently have parasound and B&K. The B&k pre and Parasound sound nice, but I miss the bass drive of the Adcom, but do not want to go back to an adcom amp- not enough detail or clarity, not to mention a less precise sound stage. I still recommend Adcom as it is a great spot to get your feet wet. I am so sick of the you need 200+ watts to hear a difference. It's not all about the power, there is build quality, quality of components used, design type/philosophy and type and efficiency of the speakers. If 200 watts is the end all be all then go buy a Boss car audio amp or a pyle pro amp and be done with it. Just because some one says go tubes or stay home does not mean you have too, it's just an opinion which is what newbs are asking for. I don't have tubes, probably won't ever, but would love to see what they do on my SDAs. I do agree with shack and I also agree with some of what miss 200wpc said also. I looked at both of their OPINIONS and formed my own OPINION, which is what this hobby is all about. Sorry for the disjointedness, but damn.

obieone

I've never classified myself an 'Audiophile'. Barely an audio enthusiast. Cfrizz & Shack are both right. I've the stones thrown from both sides, but if anyone allows themselves to bullied, it's THEIR OWN fault.
The only brands I've said disparaging remarks about, are Klipsch, and Bose. Klipsch has gotten better, but Bose, sorry, there's no way that $4k 'dream' system is gonna sound as good as a Monitor or RTI setup, which can be had for a lot less.

Some people believe seperates are the way to go. I like the sound of my sc-05.
Some people believe tubes sound better. Maybe they do, but I have neither the space, nor the patience for tweaking, by changing out vacuum tubes.
Some here believe in vinyl. All I heard was 'snap, crackle, pop'

Some believe that cables make a diffference. And that's ALL I'm gonna say that subject!

steveinaz

Well, not everyone that is into music, wants to be a geek about it--and invest big dollars. That's cool. We all make choices, based on other factors. I have a number of hobbies, and those hobbies require money; so I have to prioritize (since I'm not a rockefeller). For what I spend on the shooting sports, I "could" have a killer rig---but I also like having fine firearms, so I compromise. I have more than a mild interest in audio, and have since I was 11; but my every budgetary move doesn't involve setting money aside for $25,000 speakers.

decal

I have a number of hobbies, and those hobbies require money

Amen to that brother!!!!

tonyb

Cathy, I think your view of what happens here is somewhat slanted. No offense girlfriend, but IMHO, we go to great strides around here to help as many as we can regardless of the level of gear or depth of wallet. While it may be true that alot of newcomers are just getting into the whole HT thing or audio in general, the advice given is usually from those with experience. Thats key. Many of us have traveled the same road as new members and our advice is not intended to be snobish, but only to help some not make the same mistakes we did and in that process save the newcomers some coin to boot. It should be every members responsibility to hand out solid advice be it opinion or from experience and to point out the benefits and pitfalls of any brand of gear. We constantly talk about brands that perform well above their price points with Polk being one of them. We also point out the turkeys that we find too regardless of brand. The end result is to offer up the best info possible so the person can make the best informed decision when just getting started or moving up the chain. Nothing more, nothing less.

One only has to visit other audio forums and read some advice given. You can tell in 5 seconds who is spouting BS and who has some experience under their belt. Some also are brand pushers who never look at products subjectively. We try not to be like other forums and offer up some good no nonsense reviews of products. Doesn't always work out that way as every forum has fanboys of brand x or z, but we sure do our best to give out solid advice here and I think that alone has contributed greatly to this forums ongoing success. We are not by no means perfect, well....with the exception of Jessie's hair, but you'd be hard pressed to find another audio forum such as this one.

cnh

Just picked up some new equipment. Sorry I can't talk to you guys "anymore". Besides some of you are too snotty. lol
Time for my "hiatus" from the low brow systems here. See you!

[Was that enough ego for you all? Or do I need to ramp it up more!] You have to love the debates that really are NOT debates around here, because. All the guys/gals who have higher end equipment are usually pretty even handed with their recommendations for newer individuals.

Also, WHAT is it that is STOPPING the old grand masters of this site from forming 'clubs' and "interest" groups and sharing their elite knowledge with each other? I don't see anyone saying you can't post at any 'level' here! Some of the old timers need to "lead" if that's what they want. No one has a problem with that. If we can't understand your esoteric rants there are those here who can fill in the background.

Take back "your" forum if you think it's in danger of going too mid-fi. No one will mind. You certainly won't hear me complain!

cnh

cfrizz

Tony, the majority of us do try our best to be even handed and helpful, and there are some who can't seem to help without being condescending and ultimately unhelpful.

Turkeys in gear are in the ear and more than likely the purse of the beholder, but that turkey might be just fine and has been just fine for some both in hearing and wallet. And to just dismiss them out of hand because a few have a hardcore hate for them is wrong.

If you have nothing good to say, then it's perhaps best to say nothing.

I love this forum, but I think it would be better served if it stays somewhat in the middle, extremes on either side aren't good. There will always be people around to help us continue up the ladder if we choose to do so.

Toolfan66

I still don't see it this place has been pretty good on all accounts lately.

shack

Audio is about high end, mid level and entry level. Any audio forum that doesn't cover all ends of the spectrum is a half-assed audio forum. Just because many consider Polk to be mid-fi...doesn't mean they are. Their forum should not be limited to mid-fi either.

If ya'll want to dumb down the forum to only middle of the road stuff...have at it. It will be a poorer forum for it IMO.

PS: You might want to ask Matthew Polk if audio should be limited to middle of the road. Having seen and heard his rigs...I'm pretty sure I would know the answer.

F1nut

If anything, we need more talk about high end gear and a lot less about the low end.

BlueFox

If anything, we need more talk about high end gear and a lot less about the low end.

I agree with that. That is how you learn. I would never have bought my MIT interconnects and Shunyata speaker cables and power cords if those topics were never discussed.

cnh

shack wrote: »

Audio is about high end, mid level and entry level. Any audio forum that doesn't cover all ends of the spectrum is a half-assed audio forum. Just because many consider Polk to be mid-fi...doesn't mean they are. Their forum should not be limited to mid-fi either.

If ya'll want to dumb down the forum to only middle of the road stuff...have at it. It will be a poorer forum for it IMO.

PS: You might want to ask Matthew Polk if audio should be limited to middle of the road. Having seen and heard his rigs...I'm pretty sure I would know the answer.

F1nut wrote: »

If anything, we need more talk about high end gear and a lot less about the low end.

This is exactly what I was suggesting above...for those of you who have been here the longest and also may have the most to say about the higher end. Again, "no one" is holding anybody back from bringing what they know to this forum. So have at it.

No need to lament the good old days, because a lot of the good old guys are still about!

Carpe diem!

cnh

Toolfan66

No interest in low end does not = hate for it..

inspiredsports

F1nut wrote: »

If anything, we need more talk about high end gear and a lot less about the low end.

Excellent point.

If you purchase low end gear and find it was a mistake, your initial cost was low, your market to resell large, and you typically can get back most of your initial investment.

The stakes are higher with high-end gear.

A case in point is an exceptional Rocket 88R tube amp that has been languishing here in the Classifieds for months.

F1nut

inspiredsports wrote: »

A case in point is an exceptional Rocket 88R tube amp that has been languishing here in the Classifieds for months.

That's a shame, it's a fine amp.

Face

cfrizz wrote: »

I love this forum, but I think it would be better served if it stays somewhat in the middle, extremes on either side aren't good. There will always be people around to help us continue up the ladder if we choose to do so.

I would have never gotten to where I am now if we would have stayed in the boring middle.

F1nut wrote: »

If anything, we need more talk about high end gear and a lot less about the low end.

I agree also.

karib

♫♪♪♫..... we didn't start the fire ... ♪♫♫

tonyb

cfrizz wrote: »

If you have nothing good to say, then it's perhaps best to say nothing.

I love this forum, but I think it would be better served if it stays somewhat in the middle, extremes on either side aren't good. There will always be people around to help us continue up the ladder if we choose to do so.

We just have to agree to disagree Cathy, I simply don't follow the mentality that "everyone gets a trophy". By saying nothing, your doing a diservice to the members here. In audio your always weighing the good against the bad, to not bring the bad up for discussion is downright wrong.

evhudsons

I'm still a newbie, and have listened to great advice here. I have yet to have any snobbish remarks towards me by anyone. One remark was perfectly said from one of my posts, "an entry level receiver can not possibly push the SDA speaker properly". So I got rid of my entry level but new receiver by selling it for near what I paid, got an older receiver for half the cost of the entry level, used the preouts to my recently bought but used amp, liked the incredible sound to prove the "snobbish?" advice correct, then added another amp for my subs, and now have enough dough saved in the mean time to once again upgrade the receiver to an even better one brand new which will allow me to not only do what I need but it will be wife and guest user friendly. No more instruction book on how to listen to a cd or watch movies.

I haven't hid the fact I've been starting out entry level, and now am super happy to be closing in on mid level. I love the talk of the super high end because one day I'll be there. In the meantime, I love all the discussions about the various gear. I also don't think people here bash Bose unnecessarily because it is a company that promotes marketing over quality. Some of their stuff is good for grandma, but if grandpa is hard of hearing he needs a real system to kick to some good Blues.

Thanks to all here for changing my life in a new positive manner. The only snobs here are the short lived trolls that must always have the last word and outlandish claims. Everyone else here has been exceptionally friendly as well as correct in giving advice.

hertz9753

:sad:

evhudsons

I have to make a quick comment to clarify my opinion. I bought my new avr before I dropped my speaker and before finding club polk. Had I read posts here before I bought a new avr, I would have gotten a used but better one with preouts which would have saved me time and money and I would have reached the level I am at much much faster and with a higher WAF.
The good thing about going the route I took was simply to compare newer but lower quality to older but higher quality. High quality is what I am after. It won't happen overnight to get to audio nirvana but I'm on a faster track here. I don't want to be considered a snob if I tell someone new they might want to spike their speakers, get a reciever with preouts, or upgrade their crossovers. My signature is listed so others can see what I have in order to give better advice. If someone says they like a certain brand or a certain setup they have always stated why and have never said one was the only way to go. I guess I've only read good threads on audio here. It's when the topic segways from audio that things get wiry.