Using SDA-SRS with a Non Common Ground Amp

Rag Top Day

Thanks for all the info. Not sure how to do all the quotes so will just say that I have had these speakers since new.
Tour2ma
I ran them with a complete bi-amp Nakamici system (CR7)for years and loved them. One amp went out and sent it in to be fixed. went out again after the warr. Guy at Stereo Design told me these Palladiums would work great with these speakers which was wrong! Would not take them back so removed the interconect cable. Moved and never hooked system up till a few weeks ago and decided to make it right. I think I might try the RDO194-1's after I fix the common ground problem I have been told I can not run the AI-1 with these first SDA-SRS's . not sure how good an idea the grounding is but the tech at Aragon/Indy Labs say I can do it.

Rag Top Day

Schurkey, I got you PM and will reply as soon as I can get 10 posts as the forum will not let me yet. Sucks being the new kid on the block some times. I live in El Cajon Ca by the way.

heiney9

vstarkwell wrote: »

Not to hijack this thread but I'll picking up a pair of SDA's this weekend and the lady isn't sure if they're SRS or just SDA 2's. I was curious as to the "common ground" question. Will my Sansui AU-717 work on SDA 2's and or the SRS?

Perhaps you mean SDA SRS2 or SDA SRS? SDA2's are different. I have no idea about your Sansui, my guess is given the era it was built it's probably common ground, but that's just a guess. You can take Multi Meter and measure between the left and right negative speaker terminals if it reads zero or close to zero it's common ground.

H9

vstarkwell

heiney9 wrote: »

Perhaps you mean SDA SRS2 or SDA SRS? SDA2's are different. I have no idea about your Sansui, my guess is given the era it was built it's probably common ground, but that's just a guess. You can take Multi Meter and measure between the left and right negative speaker terminals if it reads zero or close to zero it's common ground.

H9

Thanks H9 for the feedback as for the speakers they are either SDA 2's or SDA-SRS 2's if they are not SRS 2's and just SDA 2's is the common ground still relevant? As for measuring the Sansui I have no clue as to how to do that so I'll contact my local audio guy to look into that.

Thanks!!!!

heiney9

Yes still relevant but we need a photo to know which generation the SDA 2's are. Later SDA 2B's can use the AI-1 interphase.

SRS2's came in two iterations, a 1985 version and a 1987 version neither can use the AI-1 interphase cable. 1985 version uses a blade/blade connector and the 1987 version uses a pin/blade connector for the standard SDA cable.

H9

Joe08867

i do not believe the Sansui is Common ground. The amp section is dual mono design. I think bluemonkey had one of these maybe he knows for sure.

musky1963

I had several of the AUD-11 MKII integrateds and they were a floating ground.

autoconsortium

Since I'm strapping grounds on these Lexicon (Bryston) monoblocks, should I have the ground lift switch on or off or does it matter?

Rag Top Day

Since the later version of the SDA-SRS's 1.2, 2.3, 3.1's can use the AI-1 interphase would it be possible to put one of those crossover units in my first gen speakers so I could use the AI-1 interphase with the Palladium Monoblocks?

F1nut

autoconsortium wrote: »

Since I'm strapping grounds on these Lexicon (Bryston) monoblocks, should I have the ground lift switch on or off or does it matter?

The ground lift switch has nothing to do with your amps being common ground or not. As mono blocks they are not common ground, period. The switch simply lifts the ground connection from the power cord.

F1nut

Rag Top Day wrote: »

Since the later version of the SDA-SRS's 1.2, 2.3, 3.1's can use the AI-1 interphase would it be possible to put one of those crossover units in my first gen speakers so I could use the AI-1 interphase with the Palladium Monoblocks?

You can't do that.

heiney9

Rag Top Day wrote: »

Since the later version of the SDA-SRS's 1.2, 2.3, 3.1's can use the AI-1 interphase would it be possible to put one of those crossover units in my first gen speakers so I could use the AI-1 interphase with the Palladium Monoblocks?

Nope.

There is no way around it beyond finding different amplification or different speakers for your current amps.

H9

FTGV

autoconsortium wrote: »

Since I'm strapping grounds on these Lexicon (Bryston) monoblocks,

I assume the series /parallel switch on the back is in the parallel position?Otherwise they would not like having their negative terminals strapped.

should I have the ground lift switch on or off or does it matter?

The ground lift switch is for use when a system ground loop occurs.With the switch in the lift position a small resistance is added between circuit ground and chassis ground eliminating the loop.

headrott

Tour2ma wrote: »

Very true... not sure why owners of any tl model would strap with the AI-1 option on the table.

It's easier, and people usually go for that rather than sound quality, until they realise there is a difference. Then most (hopefully) go for the sound quality.

Tour2ma wrote: »

What is the current Club standard for AI-1 design? RT1 had his Dreadnaught (sp?) a while ago, but seems like DK's monster with the off-axis inductors my have superseded it... yes?

Yes, I believe this is correct. DK's proved better results.

Greg

Schurkey

Rag Top Day wrote: »

not sure how good an idea the grounding is but the tech at Aragon/Indy Labs say I can do it.

Ground strap on 8008BB--sure. Ground strap between two Palladiums--I'd like to see the communication you got from Indy Audio Labs; 'cause if it's going to work for you, it's going to work for me.

headrott

Schurkey wrote: »

Ground strap on 8008BB--sure. Ground strap between two Palladiums--I'd like to see the communication you got from Indy Audio Labs; 'cause if it's going to work for you, it's going to work for me.

Yeah, I'd be suprised if this is accurate......

Greg

[Deleted User]

F1nut wrote: »

The ground lift switch has nothing to do with your amps being common ground or not. As mono blocks they are not common ground, period. The switch simply lifts the ground connection from the power cord.

F1nut is correct, the "second" ground is eliminated with the "lift" switch engaged.

vstarkwell

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes still relevant but we need a photo to know which generation the SDA 2's are. Later SDA 2B's can use the AI-1 interphase.

SRS2's came in two iterations, a 1985 version and a 1987 version neither can use the AI-1 interphase cable. 1985 version uses a blade/blade connector and the 1987 version uses a pin/blade connector for the standard SDA cable.

H9

I'll definitely submit Pics once I pic them up this Saturday. Thanks again for the knowledge!!!

vstarkwell

Joe08867 wrote: »

i do not believe the Sansui is Common ground. The amp section is dual mono design. I think bluemonkey had one of these maybe he knows for sure.

Thanks Joe08867 I'll read up on my manuals to hopefully get a clearer idea regarding the Sui and hopefully bluemonkey or anyone else familar with this model Sansui will chime in.

F1nut

vstarkwell, you need to keep up. thebluemonkey was the scumbag Scott Trigg and he's been banned, once again.

vstarkwell

F1nut wrote: »

vstarkwell, you need to keep up. thebluemonkey was the scumbag Scott Trigg and he's been banned, once again.

Sorry bout that F1nut, I'm just gonna call Tom K up at Vintage Hi-Fi and let him clarify this for me. Depending on what happens I might have a very good story about what I'm going to do with these speakers and I'll be sure to share with all.

Tour2ma

Rag Top Day wrote: »

Thanks for all the info. Not sure how to do all the quotes so will just say that I have had these speakers since new.
Tour2ma
I ran them with a complete bi-amp Nakamici system (CR7)for years and loved them. One amp went out and sent it in to be fixed. went out again after the warr. Guy at Stereo Design told me these Palladiums would work great with these speakers which was wrong! Would not take them back so removed the interconnect cable. Moved and never hooked system up till a few weeks ago and decided to make it right. I think I might try the RDO194-1's after I fix the common ground problem I have been told I can not run the AI-1 with these first SDA-SRS's . not sure how good an idea the grounding is but the tech at Aragon/Indy Labs say I can do it.

First, quotes are easy. Buttons are in the lower right corner of the border around each individual post.

If the manufacturer says you can strap them, it may be so, but given the reluctance you see here, I'd ask for that opinion in writing before I'd do it. I sure do not see that opinion in the Aragon e-mail you posted earlier.

Also were the Palladiums in storage with the SRS's or are they a recent addition? If Stereo Design clearly knew your SRS's required that their amp(s) be common ground amp, then regardless of when they were bought I'd press the return. If recent, then they should have no excuse for refusing. In either case, if they refuse the return, I would be sure that Aragon knows they misrepresented the amps.

As for the SRS's... an original owner... had a feeling. Probably read the old Stereo Review article when it was first published as did I.

heiney9 wrote: »

Yes, that's why I said correct me if I'm wrong, what's your problem, Bruce? You going to quote me all over the board and be an a$$ about it? It seems like you have some sort of problem with me or my posts. Maybe I'm reading it wrong but I doubt it.

With you? No, not yet anyway. With some of your posts? Yes. Including some in this thread, e.g., "If you insist on Mono's do your homework to make sure they can be strapped." I mean really, what did that post contribute? But I had no problem with your SRS related post. It simply contained erroneous SRS info had not been definitively corrected. That's what you invited. That's all I did, but in light of my recent post in another thread (calling you on an at least equally dickish post you made there) I can see how you would be prone to overreact to my being the one to correct you.

If you want to stick to facts and behavior, we will co-exist pleasantly enough. If on the other hand you want to get personal (and I tend to take being called an ****, or an "a$$", personal... right, Jesse?), then we'll have a problem.

heiney9 wrote: »

The sl2000 tweeter is horribly harsh even with the "right gear". Do yourself a favor and buy the RD0194-1 and if for some reason you don't like the sound you can flip them for little loss.

Now here we simply have a difference in opinion... fine... (although I believe any objective reader would detect the waft of warm condescension rising from your post), but somehow I doubt the OP, an SRS original owner, agrees with you about their harshness having lived with the 2000's for a quarter century. But yes, he can try the RDO's and likely be out $80-160 whether he flips or keeps them since it looks like used 2000's still fetch $20-30 on ebay.

vstarkwell wrote: »

As for measuring the Sansui I have no clue as to how to do that so I'll contact my local audio guy to look into that.

Guessing you are just not familiar with using a multimeter. Here's a multimeter test video. To check your Sansui just use the lowest ohm setting and check across the posts h9 mentioned.

tonyb

Some of you need some more ice in your scotch today.

FTGV

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

F1nut is correct, the "second" ground is eliminated with the "lift" switch engaged.

Kinda sort of.The lift switch engages a 10 ohm resistor which isolates the chassis ground from circuit ground enough to eliminte a ground loop while still retaining the safety ground .

[Deleted User]

This is from the Bryston owner's manual:
"Grounding and Ground LIft Switch (except PP250):
A ground lift switch is located on the front panel of the amplifier. It is connected between the chassis ground (including the third prong on the power cord) and the signal ground.
This switch is normally left in the con- nected (up) position. Occasionally a multi- amplifier installation or an unusual grounding situation with another component (CD player, video recorder, television etc.) will cause a
ground loop between the signal ground and the chassis ground. This switch will reduce the resultant hum in many cases without re- sorting to a “ cheater plug ” by switching to the separated (down) position.
Note: this switch does not disconnect the chassis from the third prong on the power cord which must be left intact for safety reasons."
It would appear that you are correct (except we're not sure what difference the PP250 might be) I based my comment on the fact that it is the required resistor between grounds with different potentials that causes the 60Hz humming, I suppose switching to a lower value resistor will reduce the humming level. The majority of pro-audio companies lift the ground when they use a lifter switch.

Schurkey

heiney9 wrote: »

SRS2's came in two iterations, a 1985 version and a 1987 version neither can use the AI-1 interphase cable. 1985 version uses a blade/blade connector and the 1987 version uses a pin/blade connector for the standard SDA cable.

Is that correct? Far as I know, the SRS2 blade/blade can't use an AI-1 (because it's a 1B in a larger cabinet, and the 1B isn't compatible with the AI-1) but the SRS2 pin/blade CAN use the AI-1, (because it's a 1C in a bigger cabinet--and the 1C can use the AI-1.) (Barring the existence of some goofy intermediate-version 1C/SRS2pb which I keep hearing about but can hardly believe.)

Schurkey

Rag Top Day wrote: »

Since the later version of the SDA-SRS's 1.2, 2.3, 3.1's can use the AI-1 interphase would it be possible to put one of those crossover units in my first gen speakers so I could use the AI-1 interphase with the Palladium Monoblocks?

You can ABSOLUTELY modify the existing crossover to use the AI-1. The original SRS uses the same SDA signal-transfer philosophy as the SDA 1B--full-voltage, full-range signal out of each cabinet through one of the two conductors in the SDA interconnect cable. Two conductors needed--L to R, R to L. On the other end of the cable in the opposite speaker cabinet is a sh!tload of capacitance and a big inductor to ground that modifies the signal applied to the negative side of the SDA drivers.

I modified my 1Bs. Not hard to add another "tap" into the ground side of the SDA drivers, and then connect the negative side of the SDA drivers using a single conductor--just like the newer models. WALLAH! AI-1 compatible.

Problem is, the speakers sound less good when I did it--therefore it's pointless. (doesn't sound horrible, just sounds "off". Reduced bass, for example.) If there's a way to update the earlier SDA wiring to match that of the SDA 1C or the other newer-generation speakers WITHOUT **** UP THE SOUND QUALITY, I'm not man enough to figure it out.

Therefore, sure, it can be done...but it shouldn't.

gdb

OP......good luck with your setup