Is the wiring (wire colors) the same for the 2.3 and 2.3TL?

headrott
headrott Posts: 5,496
edited November 2011 in Vintage Speakers
Hi all,

I could not find the wiring diagram for the 2.3TL in the SDA sticky. There is the 2.3 Left and Right wiring diagram but no 2.3TL. Are the wire colors the same for both speakers? If not, is there a wiring diagram for the 2.3TL's? Thanks all.

Greg
Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
"I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

"Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

"Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited November 2011
    Specifically regarding the tweeters. Sorry, you all thought I needed to clarify, I'm sure....... Thanks again.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,243
    edited November 2011
    Greg,

    I can't comment on the 2.3/2.3tl but I can tell you the 1.2's are wired out of phase to the 1.2tl's (tweeters) not sure if this will be the same with the 2.3/2.3tl's. just something to think about.
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  • drumminman
    drumminman Posts: 3,396
    edited November 2011
    Hey Greg, it's here: http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?55888-POLK-AUDIO-Speaker-Wiring-Schematics-amp-More-Stereo-Dimensional-Array(SDA)

    Darqueknight's post #5, towards the bottom of the list.
    "Science is suppose to explain observations not dismiss them as impossible" - Norm on AA; 2.3TL's w/sonicaps/mills/jantzen inductors, Gimpod's boards, Lg Solen SDA inductors, RD-0198's, MW's dynamatted, Armaflex speaker gaskets, H-nuts, brass spikes, Cardas CCGR BP's, upgraded IC Cable, Black Hole Damping Sheet strips, interior of cabinets sealed with Loctite Power Grab, AI-1 interface with 1000VA A-L transformer
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited November 2011
    DK put the schematic there, but not the wiring diagram. I am looking basically to make sure the red /white tweeter wire is on top, the blue/white wire is in the middle, and the yellow/white wire is on the botom. I believe this is correct and how the 2.3 wiring diagram shows it, but am not 100%.

    Larry, yes, looking at the schematics of the 1.2 Vs. the 1.2TL they are out of phase with each other. Does it really make a difference though? If you turned the tweeter the other way and had the positive on the top (or bottom) instead of the other way around? Is there a difference in the sound projection from the RD0-198 with the positive terminal on the bottom vs. the positive on the top? Never really thought about it before, until now. Does anyone know? Thanks again guys.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited November 2011
    headrott wrote: »
    DK put the schematic there, but not the wiring diagram. I am looking basically to make sure the red /white tweeter wire is on top, the blue/white wire is in the middle, and the yellow/white wire is on the botom. I believe this is correct and how the 2.3 wiring diagram shows it, but am not 100%.

    Larry, yes, looking at the schematics of the 1.2 Vs. the 1.2TL they are out of phase with each other. Does it really make a difference though? If you turned the tweeter the other way and had the positive on the top (or bottom) instead of the other way around? Is there a difference in the sound projection from the RD0-198 with the positive terminal on the bottom vs. the positive on the top? Never really thought about it before, until now. Does anyone know? Thanks again guys.

    Greg


    Greg mine are set up like that.
    They also are different lengths.long,med and short.Not sure if yours are but the color pattern you have is correct by mine.
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,102
    edited November 2011
    headrott wrote: »
    looking at the schematics of the 1.2 Vs. the 1.2TL they are out of phase with each other. Does it really make a difference though? If you turned the tweeter the other way and had the positive on the top (or bottom) instead of the other way around? Is there a difference in the sound projection from the RD0-198 with the positive terminal on the bottom vs. the positive on the top?
    Tweeter polarity may make a sound quality difference, but turning the tweeter to reposition the terminals while keeping the same wires connected to the same terminals won't change the sound.
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited November 2011
    brgman wrote: »
    Greg mine are set up like that.
    They also are different lengths.long,med and short.Not sure if yours are but the color pattern you have is correct by mine.

    OK, that helps. Thank you for the reply. I knew they were different lengths, but just wanted to make sure the correct wire was sticking out of the correct hole.
    Schurkey wrote: »
    Tweeter polarity may make a sound quality difference, but turning the tweeter to reposition the terminals while keeping the same wires connected to the same terminals won't change the sound.

    OK, that's what I would think too. Fortunately, you cannot get the polarity reversed (wires to terminals) on the RD0-198's as they have different terminal sizes. But, thanks for clearing up that having the positive on top/bottom doesn't make an audible difference.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited November 2011
    I'm not sure about which color wire goes where (don't feel like opening mine, sorry), but the tweeter circuits of the 2.3 and 2.3TL are not wired the same, the cascade array order is different and like the 1.2TL, the 2.3TL tweeters are connected out of phase.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited November 2011
    Jesse, do you have a wiring diagram for the 2.3TL? I could not find one on the SDA sticky page.

    Also, by out of phase, do you mean that the positive is on the bottom and the negative on top for the 2.3TL and the opposite is true for the 2.3 (negative on the bottom and positive on the top) like the schematic of the 1.2 vs. the 1.2TL?

    Thanks Jesse.

    Greg

    Edit: Ah, or are you talking about at the crossover end, and not the tweeter itself?
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,102
    edited November 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    the cascade array order is different
    Not what I'd have expected, but absolutely true according to the handwritten correction on the SDA 2.3 schematic.

    If it was me, I'd un-correct it to match the 2.3TL cascade, and see how it sounds. Easily re-wired if results are un-desirable.

    It seems to me that it would be exceptionally easy to re-configure a 2.3 tweeter array to match the 2.3TL. The TL uses fewer components, and most of what's different is stuff that would be garbage-canned during a cap-and-resistor rebuild anyway. Simply order the component values according to the 2.3TL schematic instead of what's in the 2.3; including one inductor. The only tough part is paying for the six RD0-198 tweeters.
    F1nut wrote: »
    and like the 1.2TL, the 2.3TL tweeters are connected out of phase.
    To amplify: The tweeters are in-phase with each other, but all are reversed polarity from the mid-woofers. I don't understand why, but it's not at all uncommon when the crossover slopes are greater than 6db/octave.
    headrott wrote: »
    by out of phase, do you mean that the positive is on the bottom and the negative on top for the 2.3TL and the opposite is true for the 2.3 (negative on the bottom and positive on the top) like the schematic of the 1.2 vs. the 1.2TL?
    Less a matter of top and bottom than of + and -.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited November 2011
    Greg, the positive lead off the 2.3TL crossover is connected the the negative terminal on the tweeter.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited November 2011
    Gotcha. That you cannot really get hooked up incorrectly unless you mess with the wiring harness on the crossover end, correct? That is you would have to unhook the wires from the wiring harness and hook them up in reverse (incorrectly).

    Also, how is the cascade array different between the 2.3's and 2.3TL's?

    Thanks again.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited November 2011
    Looking at the schematics, the 2.3 has the tweeter array with T3 in the middle and T2 on the bottom. Also, the 2.3TL schematic shows the tweeters in sequential order. That is, T1, T2, T3. Does this mean that the yellow and blue wires should be reversed for the 2.3TL compared to the yellow and blue wires for the 2.3?

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • Schurkey
    Schurkey Posts: 2,102
    edited November 2011
    headrott wrote: »
    how is the cascade array different between the 2.3's and 2.3TL's?
    Consider the tweeter crossover to be a "two-stage" affair. ALL the tweeters are affected by the polyswitch, a 12uF or a 16uF capacitor bypassed by a 750pF cap, and an inductor to ground of .3uH or .4uh. That's the first stage.

    The second stage tailors the signal to the individual tweeters:

    One tweeter has only an additional resistor. This is T3 (handwritten correction) in the 2.3, and T2 in the 2.3TL.

    Another tweeter has the signal filtered through three components--a cap, a resistor, and an inductor. This is T1 in the 2.3, and T3 in the 2.3TL.

    [Personal Aside: Does it matter what order those three components are in? Is the resulting signal the same whether the capacitor is "in front" of the resistor, or after???? They're shown in different order in the two schematics.]

    The third tweeter has a nightmare of components in the 2.3; three caps, two resistors with some parts bypassing others. This is T2. In comparison, the 2.3TL has this mess simplified to a mere pair of caps--the 8uF (?? hard to read) bypassed by a 750pF; leading to T1
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited November 2011
    headrott wrote: »
    Gotcha. That you cannot really get hooked up incorrectly unless you mess with the wiring harness on the crossover end, correct? That is you would have to unhook the wires from the wiring harness and hook them up in reverse (incorrectly).
    That's correct, As long as you don't pull the wires out of the connector your good to go.
    Also, how is the cascade array different between the 2.3's and 2.3TL's?

    T1 is the Top tweeter, T2 is the Middle tweeter, T3 is the Bottom tweeter on both, If I'm not mistaken.

    On the 2.3's (Listed in order of dominance, I believe)
    T3 is connected to pins 5 & 6 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.
    T1 is connected to pins 3 & 4 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.
    T2 is connected to pins 1 & 2 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.

    On the 2.3TL's (Listed in order of dominance, I believe)
    T2 is connected to pins 5 & 6 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.
    T1 is connected to pins 1 & 2 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.
    T3 is connected to pins 3 & 4 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.

    I could be wrong on the order of dominance but from looking at the schematics I think I'm right.

    Of course all of this is mote if you labeled your wires (Top, Mid, Bottom) as you pulled the tweeters, You did label them didn't you ?. :razz:
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,566
    edited November 2011
    gimpod wrote: »
    On the 2.3TL's (Listed in order of dominance, I believe)
    T2 is connected to pins 5 & 6 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.
    T1 is connected to pins 1 & 2 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.
    T3 is connected to pins 3 & 4 at P3 (Tweeter Output) on the crossover.

    I could be wrong on the order of dominance but from looking at the schematics I think I'm right.

    My ears tell me the order of dominance is;
    T1
    T2
    T3
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • headrott
    headrott Posts: 5,496
    edited November 2011
    I think that's correct, but I need to know which colored wire goes where. I believe it's red to T1, blue to T2, and yellow to T3. Mike said this is correct, can someone else verify this? Thanks.

    Greg
    Relayer-Big-O-Poster.jpg
    Taken from a recent Audioholics reply regarding "Club Polk" and Polk speakers:
    "I'm yet to hear a Polk speaker that merits more than a sentence and 60 seconds discussion." :\
    My response is: If you need 60 seconds to respond in one sentence, you probably should't be evaluating Polk speakers.....

    "Green leaves reveal the heart spoken Khatru"- Jon Anderson

    "Have A Little Faith! And Everything You'll Face, Will Jump From Out Right On Into Place! Yeah! Take A Little Time! And Everything You'll Find, Will Move From Gloom Right On Into Shine!"- Arthur Lee
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  • brgman
    brgman Posts: 2,859
    edited November 2011
    All this talk of dominance is getting me excited!
    as far as connecting isnt the 198 using two different size connections?Or are we talking at the xovers?
    Main Rig-Realistic AM/FM Record player 8 track boasting 4 WPC

    Backup Rig-2 CH-Rogue Audio Zeus w/Factory Special Dark Mods,Joule-Electra 300ME Platinum Preamp,OPPO-105 w/Modwright Tube Mod, Auralic Aries G2.1,Polk 2.3TL,3.1TL's,Dreadnought,RTA-15TL's,1C's All Fully Modded,2xRTA-12c's ,Benchmark DAC3 HGC,Synology NAS,VPI Scout w/Dynavector DV-20XH and Rogue Audio Ares Phono Preamp,Sony PCM-R500 DAT,HHB-850 Pro CDR,Tascam CC-222SLMKII Cassette/CDR,MIT S3.3 Shotgun Cables,Shunyata Hyra-8,Shunyata and Triode Labs Power Cords

    I’M OFFENDED!!!!
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  • gimpod
    gimpod Posts: 1,793
    edited November 2011
    F1nut wrote: »
    My ears tell me the order of dominance is;
    T1
    T2
    T3

    Seeing how you have a pair of these and I don't I'll trust your ears over my schematic reading skill's. All kidding aside this is how I originally had them listed but then I had to start over thinking things.
    “The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.” ~ Mark Twain
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  • quadzilla
    quadzilla Posts: 1,543
    edited November 2011
    If you look at the 2.3 TL schematic, it actually shows the pin numbers. Look next to the driver symbol.

    T1 is pin 2 -/1 +
    T2 is pin 6 -/5 +
    T3 is pin 4 -/3 +

    brgman: yes, the 198 needs a small disconnect. I think the size is .187", but someone here will set me right if I'm wrong. ;)
    Turntable: Empire 208
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