Since They will No Longer Make CD's

schwarcw

I can't take my hard drive into my car, or into work. Yeah, I know there are memory devices that I can plug into via a USB port, yada, yada. CDs will be around in my lifetime and probably long after. Same with vinyl.

SACD dead??? Have you seen the prices for some of these on eBay or other sites? I'd say they are in high demand. A niche, sure. But, aren't all of us here living in a niche because we're audio nuts?

Besides, people like to touch stuff. Where's Sona!:twisted:

BeefJerky

inspiredsports wrote: »

My undestanding is that "absolute" lossless uncompressed AIFF and WAV files really would have identical sonic profiles.

Correct.

However, most seem to be using FLAC or Apple Lossless which in reality are "compressed" lossless files. And therein, I believe, lies the difference. The coder/decoder algorithm (codec) required for real-time on-the-fly "recomposition" of the file requires increased processor power. That resource penalty is placed directly in the signal path.

You clearly don't understand how lossless compression works. It's like a zip file; the data you compress comes out exactly the same as what you put in. The increased processor power is irrelevant and has no bearing on the contents of the decompressed file.

I don't know how to measure the phenomenon scientifically

I do; it's called binary math. However, it only serves to prove that this "phenomenon" is nonexistent.

but I'm certain this is what's responsible when people say they can hear the difference.

No, the only thing responsible for that is the placebo effect.

I guess in this analogy it's the codec/processor combination that imparts "timbre / distortion / harmonics / linearity / etc." used as an example about speaker frequency response curves mentioned in a later post.

The codec/processor makes no changes to the audio data, therefore it cannot "impart timbre/distortion/harmonics/linearity/etc."

It's not as you say, "If you hear a "difference" you are either using an incorrectly coded lossless decoder (highly unlikely), or the placebo effect." . . . It's the very fact that a codec is used, and its execution imparts audible changes to your precious "100% mathematically provable" file.

It makes no audible changes. This claim is akin to claiming that if you zip and unzip your Windows XP CD you will end up with Windows 95.

inspiredsports

BeefJerky wrote: »

You clearly don't understand how lossless compression works. It's like a zip file; the data you compress comes out exactly the same as what you put in. The increased processor power is irrelevant and has no bearing on the contents of the decompressed file.

It may "come out" exactly the same, but aren't you are listening to it during the process of being reconstituted?

If I understand it correctly, you are listening to the process, not the final mathematically equivalent product.

BlueFox

inspiredsports wrote: »

It may "come out" exactly the same, but aren't you are listening to it during the process of being reconstituted?

If I understand it correctly, you are listening to the process, not the final mathematically equivalent product.

Actually, you are listening to the digital file that goes into the D/A conversion, passes through the output analog stage, and then goes to the pre-amp. It really does not matter how the digital file is stored (WAV, FLAC, Apple Lossless). If the file going into the D/A stage is the same, as it is in the 3 examples given, then it will sound the same since all things are equal in this example.

In other words, if your music server has the same file in the three formats then each will sound identical to the other when played. If not then there is something wrong, and one, or more, of the files is somehow different. But that is another issue, since if everything is correctly working there will be no difference.

nwohlford

headrott wrote: »

OK, but what is current made up of? Electrons, correct?

Greg

Yes, current is made up of electrons, but each electron actually moves really slowly down a conductive material (usually a drift speed of a few mm per second in DC). The electrical information (the 0's and 1's) are passed through an electromagnetic wave moving through the material. While individual electrons move slowly through the circuit for DC, they are not what pass the information. (In AC, the electrons just vibrate back and forth and have no net movement).

Sorry, I probably should have not picked on you. Just saw a few places recently where people where acting like individual electrons travel through a wire with the information and are converted to sound (maybe not your intent). Probably should have just visited the pet peeve thread.