What caps should I use for my 2.3TL upgrade?

dpowell

I used sonicaps on my 1C's and loved the results. I've seen a couple of threads where others are planning to use clarity caps but I seem unable to find threads where the specific differences between the two are discussed. With sonicaps on sale, I want to make a decision quickly on which direction to head in.

quadzilla

I posted a question regarding the difference between Sonicaps and Claritycap MR caps. The consensus was that the ESA series is at least 80% of the MR series for a lot less, and ESA is still a lot better than Sonicap. That's why I dropped almost 1500 on a special order of the Clarity ESA series. This thread discusses the differences, with opinions range from somewhat to much better caps.

thsmith

Go with Sonicap

Toolfan66

SoNiC cApS!!!!

dpowell

Thanks, that was a very helpful thread. I was also wondering if it would be a good idea to use clarity caps in the highs and sonicaps in the lows for cost savings just as others have suggested using sonicaps for highs and Daytons for the lows?

dpowell

TOOLFORLIFEFAN wrote: »

SoNiC cApS!!!!

I'm interested in your reasons. I've heard the sonic caps and know they sound great. Why would you choose them vs. something that others feel is better?

Joe08867

quadzilla wrote: »

I posted a question regarding the difference between Sonicaps and Claritycap MR caps. The consensus was that the ESA series is at least 80% of the MR series for a lot less, and ESA is still a lot better than Sonicap. That's why I dropped almost 1500 on a special order of the Clarity ESA series. This thread discusses the differences, with opinions range from somewhat to much better caps.

ESA's are not better than Sonicaps and MR's are as good for the highs but give up some in the lows. I have used both and if I were planning on doing a crossover Sonicaps is the way to go.

Toolfan66

dpowell wrote: »

I'm interested in your reasons. I've heard the sonic caps and know they sound great. Why would you choose them vs. something that others feel is better?

My only reason is cost.. Don't get me wrong I want the MR's but my other concern with them other then cost is the size of them, I don't think you will be using a crossover board with them. I think the best way then would be just using a piece of MDF to wire them together where needed. a 12uf cap is a good size cap in the MR series..

Those are my only reasons. Dollar for Dollar the sonic caps are awesome!!!

gimpod

IMO for SDA's Sonicap Gen 1's all day everyday, The just seem to be made for SDA's and at 20% off right now I think there the best bang for your buck out there.

Face

Joe08867 wrote: »

ESA's are not better than Sonicaps and MR's are as good for the highs but give up some in the lows. I have used both and if I were planning on doing a crossover Sonicaps is the way to go.

What didn't you like about ESA's? They may be a little warmer than Sonic Caps, which is a subjective matter. But I found ESA's gave better spacial info(imaging, soundstage) than Sonic Caps. And that is the first time I've heard of MR's giving up on lows, I thought they also excelled there. If you don't mind me asking, which application did you use them in?

quadzilla

So one thing I can state regarding Clarity vs. Sonicaps, is the Clarity ESAs I have already show that they've a better constructed cap than the Sonicaps. I'll be able to tell you more when I get the rest in and build out my xovers for the 2.3 TLs with those and can compare them to the speakers I've done using Sonicaps. What I do know, having heard other caps, is that Sonicap is not the be-all and end-all of caps. But they are a great bang for your buck cap.

dpowell

forgot to add that I'll be using Gimpod's custom XO boards for this project. Another reason for asking is that I am really motivated to get the 2.3's upgraded. I was astonished when I listened to my 1C's AFTER hearing the stock 2.3's and realized that I can't listen to the 2.3's in their current configuration and be happy. The SDA soundstage is so much wider, the bass so much deeper and satisfying and the highs so much less fatiguing with those XO upgrades in place that I'm willing to consider the sonic caps. However, since I plan to make the 2.3's my final SDA destination for the forseeable future, I want to do the upgrades once. I'm just not sure I'm satisfied with having to wait months for all of the clarity caps orders to be completed.

quadzilla

Yeah, I'll have them in about 6 weeks or so. They've arrived at partconnexion, I'm just waiting for my resistors to come in. Could even be less. But it's entirely up to you. You certainly won't be unhappy going with Sonicaps.

quadzilla

Joe08867 wrote: »

ESA's are not better than Sonicaps and MR's are as good for the highs but give up some in the lows. I have used both and if I were planning on doing a crossover Sonicaps is the way to go.

I too would be interested in hearing more regarding this. I've heard other caps, and several were better than sonicaps. I haven't heard the ESA or MR series, but those comparisons that I've read universally rate MR caps much, much higher than Sonicaps.

PreCd

I used Erse Pulse X for my 2BTL tweeter upgrade with a Sonicap in the notch filter location. The electros got replaced with the same Erse electro value cap.

dpowell

I guess part of the dilema is that to really know which is better is that you should have two identical sets of speakers; one upgraded with sonic caps and the other with clarity caps both being listened to on the same gear. Otherwise, there are so many other variables that can affect the sonic signature that it would be difficult to know for sure. Am I off in my thinking on this?

Face

I used the same set of speakers and swapped caps back and forth. To compare using different rigs, rooms, speakers, or applications isn't fair.

PreCd

dpowell wrote: »

I guess part of the dilema is that to really know which is better is that you should have two identical sets of speakers; one upgraded with sonic caps and the other with clarity caps both being listened to on the same gear. Otherwise, there are so many other variables that can affect the sonic signature that it would be difficult to know for sure. Am I off in my thinking on this?

Nope I think that would work fine. I went cheaper at first, my Erse caps cost under $20 for both speakers, and if it don't work out I can back peddle to the higher end caps. I thought my upgrade through for a long time. Talked to you all here and others that have been working on audio equipment for 20+ years. A fellow I got up with said something that really hit home with me. One day he said if there is a electrolytic there put one back, that was the way it was engineered. So that is what I did.

Now my speakers sound good but I still have one resistor to replace in each speaker and re-cap my preamp before I can make a deduction. However when that is done this weekend I will report back. I am particular when listening and look for the little things so I can make a good sound decision when it comes down to "Do the caps sound good".

PreCd

Face wrote: »

I used the same set of speakers and swapped caps back and forth. To compare using different rigs, rooms, speakers, or applications isn't fair.

Are you saying you used the same rig? If so what were your observations?

F1nut

PreCd wrote: »

A fellow I got up with said something that really hit home with me. One day he said if there is a electrolytic there put one back, that was the way it was engineered. So that is what I did.

That's really bad advice.

One needs to understand that electrolytic caps were used in SDA's because the speakers needed to meet a certain price point, high end caps were harder to come by back then and what selection there was, were not available in the quantities needed.

quadzilla

I have to agree with F1 on this. That was very bad advice, even if it was what you wanted to hear. Will it sound better than stock? Maybe a bit. Will it sound as good as putting a film cap in there? No chance.

PreCd

quadzilla wrote: »

I have to agree with F1 on this. That was very bad advice, even if it was what you wanted to hear. Will it sound better than stock? Maybe a bit. Will it sound as good as putting a film cap in there? No chance.

More than it being what I wanted to hear it was more about economics. If they sound good enough for me then I have accomplished what I set out to do at a fraction of the cost. If they do not please me then all I have to do is ask for contributions from the forum and purchase some film capacitors. Sounds reasonable to me! :cheesygrin:

In all seriousness it is not a big deal if they do not work out to pull the boards and replace the caps. In my opinion it is a good experiment.

As a side note I would like to say I respect F1s opinion, and others here, greatly. It was just a month or so ago that I was begging for advice on how to accomplish the upgrade. Don't know what I would have done without yall.

Joe08867

Face wrote: »

What didn't you like about ESA's? They may be a little warmer than Sonic Caps, which is a subjective matter. But I found ESA's gave better spacial info(imaging, soundstage) than Sonic Caps. And that is the first time I've heard of MR's giving up on lows, I thought they also excelled there. If you don't mind me asking, which application did you use them in?

I used MR's on 2B's that I TL modded. They were originally TL's with Sonicaps Gen1 and I decided to try MR's. At first I felt it was the best move but soon I found the speakers more fatiguing again as I found myself always listening for something that was missing, they had lost some of the sub bass notes I had heard before with the Sonicaps. I also didn't hear the warmth you guys speak of but agree spacial sound was quite good.

I was also running them on my Exposure 3010s2 so power wasn't lacking.

inspiredsports

I also believe you might find there to be a sonic difference between using Clarity ESA's in a single point source cabinet like the 2B, and in a progressive point source cabinet like the SRS series.

nooshinjohn

Now I just need your addy so I can send the boards out this saturday... give me a buzz

Face

PreCd wrote: »

Are you saying you used the same rig? If so what were your observations?

Yes, same rig, same speakers, observations above.

Joe08867 wrote: »

I used MR's on 2B's that I TL modded. They were originally TL's with Sonicaps Gen1 and I decided to try MR's. At first I felt it was the best move but soon I found the speakers more fatiguing again as I found myself always listening for something that was missing, they had lost some of the sub bass notes I had heard before with the Sonicaps. I also didn't hear the warmth you guys speak of but agree spacial sound was quite good.

I was also running them on my Exposure 3010s2 so power wasn't lacking.

Not looking to go **** for tat here, but low end bass should be tighter with MR's, which is why it may sound recessed in comparison. I'd love to see a picture of that crossover, the caps must have dwarfed the board(if you still used it).

As far as the Exposure integrated, there's not much technical info out there, eh?

Joe08867

Face wrote: »

Yes, same rig, same speakers, observations above.
Not looking to go **** for tat here, but low end bass should be tighter with MR's, which is why it may sound recessed in comparison. I'd love to see a picture of that crossover, the caps must have dwarfed the board(if you still used it).

As far as the Exposure integrated, there's not much technical info out there, eh?

You are probably right but the room they were in was already treated for sound and was pretty dead so to speak. I had done the treatments with the Sonicaps so maybe I should have played some more with the room. Honestly though the difference wasn't that drastic I was just very in tune with the sound I wanted and the MR's didn't quite fill that niche. I wouldn't hesitate to try either again in the future.

Here is the Review from Stereophile of the 3010s I have the S2 which is nearly identical in all respects. I originally had the 2010 and upgraded to the 3010s2 besides a power difference the sound was a bit warmer.

Exposure 3010Sl

dpowell

I've decided to stick with the Sonicaps and Mills. I listened to my 1C's one last time before they left today and I figured if I enjoyed them that much then the Sonicaps and Mills would work just fine in the 2.3TLs. Price point is also a consideration, especially with the 20% off deal right now.

drumminman

I did my 2.3TL's with Sonicaps and Mills. Every time I have a listening session I'm amazed at good everything sounds! Never used anything else in the Xovers I've rebuilt on 3 different sets of speakers, but in each case I've been pleased.

Of course, the 20% off sale helps too

rromeo923

Sent my crossovers out to be upgraded for my 1C's. They will be getting Clarity ESA's and Clarity PX's. We will see how that works.