Car audio rookie question....

brettw22

Hello guys....

I'm wondering if I could get some help/advice in a system for my car, while keeping in a few limitations.

I have a '01 accord that I am leasing. Logic would tell me to not bother putting a system in the thing, but the speakers drive me nuts. I do like the 6 disc in dash player, so I'm ultimately looking at just swapping out the speakers.

I went into a Good Guys while I was in So Cal and the guy showed me a set-up that sounded pretty damn nice. Here's what I demo'd:

Eclipse SP8992 (6X9'S) for $219/pr
Eclipse SC8362 (6.5's w/ seperate tweets) for $349
Eclipse PA5422 (85x4 amp) for $399

While the speakers did sound really good, I don't really wanna dump a grand into a car that I'm going to be handing back in 2 years. True, I'll be un-installing it and taking the set-up with me, but I'm wondering what lower priced options are out there.

I was in Fry's and saw Polk has the db6500 series for somethin like $199/pair and then whatever the 6x9 model is for I think the same price, or maybe $149. That's pretty inexpensive, at least comparatively to the Eclipse line, but that doesn't put money out there for an outboard amp either.

The sound difference of the Eclipse speakers running straight off the deck compared to the amp being in the mix is a HUGE difference, so I don't think that I can/should eliminate the amp from the install.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

sntnsupermen131

what exactly do you want help with?
not sure i understand what ur asking...
-Cody

brettw22

Will the Polk DB series cut it.......

What other speakers out there gives a bang/buck return....

What amp would sound good paired with whichever speakers suggested....

I won't be installing a sub into this car. I don't want to give up the space, and while trying to stay within a minimal budget, you can easily double up what you're spending by just adding a sub....

sntnsupermen131

the db's (although i havent heard them yet) are sposed to be pretty damn good speakers for the price
as far as other models...i dont really have time to list any right now but ill try and get back to you tonite...or someone else will
the old polk EX series were very good
as far as eclipse...they make awesome head units...not too sure about anything else...
and you cant buy them off the internet(Well...with a warranty) so it makes it hard to get them cheaper
but hifonics, rockford fosgate, mtx, profile are just a few suggestions
www.sounddomain.com
www.crutchfield.com
www.thezeb.com
www.onlinecarstereo.com
www.carmedia1.com
www.electronicscity.com
i know all of those carry full warranty except im not too sure about onlinecarstereo and carmedia1...but they are usually the cheapest placest on the internet to go for audio stuff
-Cody

brettw22

With regard to the Polk models, I thought that I had heard something about the new Ex line to be not as good as it's predecessor. I could be wrong on that, but I'm not sure. For the front's, I need to have the tweeter and the mid seperated, since my tweets are in the dash.

I called Crutchfield, and they indicated that the only model Polk that I could really put into the existing hole, without having to do 'too' much mods is the 6500. The Momo's were too deep, and there isn't a Polk coax that would work without enlarging the opening. Even with the 6500 though, they said that I'd have to cut out the bottom of the plastic cup that the speakers sit in. I'm willing to do that, but can't go wider because of the speakers having to go back there when I turn the car back in. They don't have the provisions on how to install the tweeters in the dash, so the only thing he was suggesting was cutting a hole in the door to put the tweeters in, which isn't a viable option for me.

As for the rear deck, they indicated that the 6x9's would be an easy swap out by using the db690.

A friend of mine does some installing on the side, and he's big into the Power Accoustic line, which he says is Rockford Fosgate's off-line. I'm not all that familiar with the quality of RF other than I hear commercials for them all the friggen time......

Jstas

Oh dear, you are woefully mistaken.

Number one, Eclipse is over-priced. They have tried to build a name for themselves through planned exclusiviy, kind of liek Alpine did. Only problem is, Alpine was worth the price when they were doing it. The Polk MOMO series is light years ahead of the Eclipse stuff. Infact, the new DB series is better, IMO.

As far as the EX series goes, the EX III is said to be not as good as the EX II but it is a subjective difference. Comparing the EX III to the EX II is like comparing a Ferrari from 1990 with a Ferrari from 1995. One may be better than the other but either way you cut it, it's still a Ferrari. The Polk EX series has been and probably still is second to none in it's price point. The only exception I can think of is the new DB series which replaces and outperforms the EX series both on paper and in reality.

As far as Power Acoustic goes, I can steal your money from you and give you junk too. Don't waste your time. About the only good thing I have ever seen come out of Power Acoustic was the active crossover networks capable of handling 4-6 amps. As far as being a Rockford-Fosgate off-brand, I find that incredibly hard to believe. Especially since Rockford-Fosgate makes thier own down-series of equipment to compete with the likes of Power Acoustic. Your friend is feeding you a **** line to get you to buy the equipment. Again, stop wasting your time.

For the Accord, you are not going to find many speakers that will fit into the Accord holes. Since you are leasing, your hands are tied. You don't want to cut anything up so go with what works best. You are going to have to cut the buckets but you can replace those cheaply. You also do not have to cut any holes. Yo claim to be such an incredibly smart guy, I find it difficult to believe that you can't think of anything that might work out better. I have done everything from zip-tied to velcroed tweeters in place to keep from drilling holes. My current tweeters are surface mounted in the buckets Polk sent them to be with. I ran a small tie-rod screw from my RC Car bolt collection through the back of the stock speaker grilles. They are molded into the door panel. After sliding the screw through, I ran a washer and a nut and cinched down the tweeter bucket so it wouldn't move. I ran the wires, pressed the tweeter into the bucket, connected the wires and mounted the door panel. The tweeters are positioned directly over the woofers that they match and the crossover networks are velcroed to the inner door skins. Not a single hole drilled, the only thing I did was peel back some speaker cloth that I can easily reglue when needed. I have 6x8 inch holes but I mounted 6.5 inch woofers and never altered any sheet metal. Welcome to car audio where it isn't always as simple as opening a box and plugging something it. Sometimes you gotta work at it.

C-Man

Fosgate is a good brand. Will give you great power at a decent price. I wouldn't waste my time with Power Accoustik.

I believe www.thezeb.com has some decent prices on Fosgate amps with a full warranty. Well... they're supposed to have a full warranty, you can ask Cody about what happened to him with his Fosgate amps he bought from them. You could also look into the new Polk 4 channel amp. I haven't checked into them since they came out so I don't know the exact specs on them, but I hear they are supposed to be affordable, nice amps.

Rogue Torino

since you can't drill any holes in the car you could just mount the tweeters using double sided tape. Just make sure you don't the the thick foam kand as it's a real pain to get off after. Just make sure you clean off the area with Rubbing Alcohol and let it dry before you stick the tweeter. it wont be the cleanest looking install (the wires will show) but at least you don't have to drill any holes. As for the Coaxials i don't see why the db650 coaxs won't fit as they have identical mounting specs and you won't have to worry about mount the tweeter at all and are quite a bit cheaper. It all depends on you though the db6500 components will sound a bit better but will be a little harder to install and cost a little more. I Know Circuit City carries these as well as any other good car audio place (or at least they should...) Good Luck!

brettw22

Thanks for the replies guys....

I thought about the db650's, but from what I was told by the Crutchfield rep, the depth of the coax's would be prohibit them being used. I asked about going that route and disconnecting the tweets in the dash, but since they won't fit, probably not a good idea. I'm also not so sure that I'd like the sound of coax's in the bottom of the door when I've been used to hearing the high's up at the dash.....

I think that the db6500's are the way to go up front, with the db 690's in the back. The price quoted from Crutchfield for both pairs was $274 shipped, with the promo of buy one set of db's, get the second pair half off.

The tech at Crutch said that I should trace the stock tweet, then cut a piece of thick plastic out and mount the db tweet to it then just slide it into place. The only problem that I'm anticipating, is wondering if the stock tweet wiring actually runs back to the front mid, or if the tweet in the dash is wired directly to the face in the dash. If that's the case, I don't know how I'm gonna get the wiring through the door to the mid driver. Throwing an Amp into the mix would probably put it out of my league for a first time install, but we'll see.

As for your fairly civil response Stas, I haven't ever even tried to install a car system, so rather than try to rip everything apart, I figure it's best to ask questions before. Thanks for the rest of your reply though.

Rogue Torino

it would be a lot easier if you had an aftermarket radio but since you don't it makes things a little more difficult since you can't cut the radio harness to utalize the factory wiring for the woofer you could try to get a female and male plug (i think metra makes both ends) solder all the leads together except for the speaker ones (front and rear) use the 8 speaker wires and connect up you high level to RCA converter/s to those. after this is done you can cheat a little and use factory wiring if you mount your amp in the trunk you can just disconnect the factory wires from the rear and connect those factory wires to the front outputs on the amp and to hook up the rears just run the wires directly to them. now the special harness you have mad up front will have the output from the amp coming out of what used to be the rear leads. from there i think you may have enough room to put both the crossovers behind the radio but i may be mistaking...Take the outputs you just made from the harness hook it up to the input in the x-over then attach the woofer output from that to the front leads on the harness. then all you really have is to run wire to where ever your gunna mount the tweeter. Hopefully i didn't confuse you with that but it is a little easier as you don't have to figure out how to get the speak wire through the door boot. You don't want to do this if your using a really high powered system or if the car has a factory amp built in.

Jstas

Originally posted by brettw22
Thanks for the replies guys....

I thought about the db650's, but from what I was told by the Crutchfield rep, the depth of the coax's would be prohibit them being used. I asked about going that route and disconnecting the tweets in the dash, but since they won't fit, probably not a good idea. I'm also not so sure that I'd like the sound of coax's in the bottom of the door when I've been used to hearing the high's up at the dash.....

I think that the db6500's are the way to go up front, with the db 690's in the back. The price quoted from Crutchfield for both pairs was $274 shipped, with the promo of buy one set of db's, get the second pair half off.

The tech at Crutch said that I should trace the stock tweet, then cut a piece of thick plastic out and mount the db tweet to it then just slide it into place. The only problem that I'm anticipating, is wondering if the stock tweet wiring actually runs back to the front mid, or if the tweet in the dash is wired directly to the face in the dash. If that's the case, I don't know how I'm gonna get the wiring through the door to the mid driver. Throwing an Amp into the mix would probably put it out of my league for a first time install, but we'll see.

As for your fairly civil response Stas, I haven't ever even tried to install a car system, so rather than try to rip everything apart, I figure it's best to ask questions before. Thanks for the rest of your reply though.

You are making excuses. If the tweeter is wired seperatly and all you want to do is upgrade the speakers then all you have to do is connect the wires to the new speakers. If the tweeter hole is not the right size, figure out a way to mount it. Use your head. If the speakers are wired in series then again, all you have to do is connect wires.

However, one thing you will most likely notice is that the stock electronics are total junk. You will find out that the sound will not necessarily improve. But, Crutchfield and many other companies make it very easy to install new speakers AND head unit and not violate any leasing agreements and it makes it very easy to return the car to stock. Again, welcome to car audio. If you want something nice you either have to pay someone to do it or work at it yourself.

Sorry if you think I am being uncivil. I really couldn't care less. I think you should be glad. I have an opportunity to harrass you the way you harrass me but I have chosen to try and help you. If you would like me to stop, I will.

brettw22

Originally posted by Jstas
Sorry if you think I am being uncivil. I really couldn't care less. I think you should be glad. I have an opportunity to harrass you the way you harrass me but I have chosen to try and help you. If you would like me to stop, I will.

Help is always appreciated Stas.......and it's even better when you don't have to act like an **** to give it. Thanks for the effort, and keep it comin.

MTXMAN

oh my so much attitude in such a small thread...:(

can't we all just get along

seriously though to both brett and jstas,
brett, we get asked the same questions many times and sometimes answering them gets tiresom and we truly do just wish that people would find the answers for themselves like most of us have.
Jstas, try to be a little less cynical to the newbies bud, remember there was a time when you knew nothing of car audio other than that your speakers made noise. and i'm sure that at some point you asked questions that those you were asking them of felt were stupid. looking back i freely admit that i've asked some pretty dumb questions myself. it's part of learning and i humbly request that you try to be a little more sensitive to those who ask questions, and to keep in mind that our responses here reflect upon polkauido itself wether you realize it or not. they have been generous enough to provide us with a good forum in which we can freely discuss car audio now lets repay that generosity and aviod besmerching their name with ill thought out comments made with an overly sharp tongue

Jstas

It has nothing to do with him being a n00b because he really isn't.

PoweredByDodge

my comments on the thread as a whole.

... i found the EX III series to be better than the EX II's on both power handling and sound quality.

... i like the new db's better than the EX III's, but really not by a whole lot. I'm not sayign that the new db's aren't a little better, i'm just saying the EX III's are very nice and there's no reason to pass up a deal from crutchfield for the EXIII's on sale versus the db's are regular price as the difference is not big enough to validate the cash difference. least not to me.

... the new db's dont hold a candle to the old db's -- but they're not supposed to, its a completely different "goal" for the speaker, which is all fine and well... the recycled name may excite the anger of some, but about 90% of the buyers dont even remember (or weren't over the age of 5) when the old db's were out -- that may have been what u heard and mistook for "the new EX's dont compare to the old EX's"

... and if you're gonna cry about wiring, buy a multimeter for 9 bucks at Radio-**** and test for continuity on the wires from behind the dash to the speaker location, when you're all happy with that, plug and play. if you dont know what wire is what on th eback of the stock head, then that wouldn't work. the more i think about it - without changing the stock head, wiring can be annoying when using stock wiring. i can understand why you're a bit worried about all this... its annoying as hell aint it? i dunno what to tell u dude. i sympathize, but i dont know what to tell u.

... and is it just me or does an inordinate number of people tend to find Jstas "offensive" -- i guess its true what they say, "the truth hurts". ... maybe he ought start lying to everyone, then he'd get a christmas card, eh?

faster100

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
l

... and is it just me or does an inordinate number of people tend to find Jstas "offensive" -- i guess its true what they say!

the truth does hurt, obviously

brettw22

Thanks for the help PBD (and everyone). Worst case scenario is that I have my installer friend check out the wiring, but I get to work on the install part. I'm not opposed to tackling that, especially since I'm gonna have to be the one to pull it out at some point. It really should be a drop in install, unless I put the amp in the mix, which would mean that the stock wiring would be a little more difficult in running everything to the back, then home running it up to the front.

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
... and is it just me or does an inordinate number of people tend to find Jstas "offensive" -- i guess its true what they say, "the truth hurts". ... maybe he ought start lying to everyone, then he'd get a christmas card, eh?

I don't find him offensive....I just think that he's a dick who thinks that he's always right. That being said, if he has information to share, great......I realize that it's gonna be given with that **** of a personality of his, so I know which part to filter.

I should know in the next couple of weeks which route I'm going, but traveling and being outta town for the next 5-7 weeks during the week isn't gonna allow for much time to get this all done. This might turn into an early Thanksgiving present to me.

Jstas

OK, you keep flip flopping.

Sit down and figure out what the hell you are looking to achieve with this stereo and go from there.

A stock head unit will not support a set of aftermarket speakers adequatly at all. Most aftermarket head units won do decent aftermarket speakers justice either. Infact, most modern aftermarket units come with beefier power supplies just so they can claim a higher peak output and sell units. The average RMS output of the average head unit is about 22 watts per channel and it's dirty. The other thing about stock head units is that the impedance values are usually something odd like 6 ohms or 5.5 ohms or 3 ohms. Nothing standard like 4 or 8 ohms. Matching aftermarket speakers to that impedance level is difficult and if you don't match them, you risk destroying your factory equipment.

An amplifier will help but there are issues. Number one, even the high end stock units from even the likes of Mark Levinson have speakers that are paper cones and cloth surrounds with weak magnets. Most have power ratings in single digits. Any aftermarket amplifier (unless it's the Urban Audio power house 15Wx2 peak amp!) will over-power those speakers without trying. On top of that, high level inputs (running your speaker leads to an "RCA Converter" which is nothing more than some RCA jacks on a plastic board) are dirty and the voltage set on them is typically less than 2 volts. High level inputs introduce alot of noise and are perfect candidiates for ground loops. The only way you are going to add an amplifier to a stock stereo is through high level inputs. The sound would be less than desireable.

Your options are to either replace the speakers and hope like hell that your factory stuff doesn't bite the big one or you can stop worrying about your leasing agreement and call Crutchfield and get thier kits which allow you to drop aftermarket stuff in your car without ever cutting a hole or modifying a vehicle in any way.

If I were you, I'd take out the factory stuff and get a single-DIN sized stereo of my choosing. I'd replace the speakers with whatever would work best. Since you don't want a sub, I'd get a 50Wx4 amp run my own wires to the speakers and call it a day. If you get your head unit from Crutchfield, they will send you a kit and directions on how to take apart your car to install the stereo and they will give you a wire harness that you WILL have to splice into your head unit's harness. That harness allows you to hook up your stereo to the stock harness to get such wonderful things like power, switchable leads, grounds and even antennas in some cases. Then you run RCA patch cables from your head unit to your amp. You get a roll of 12 guage speaker wire (about 100 ft), 16 feet of 8 guage power wire with an inline fuse holder, 4-6 feet of 8 guage ground wire, some wire ends and 16-20 feet of 16 guage turn on lead. Or just get an amp wiring kit. You can mount your amp anywhere, even under a seat or behind the dash. Run all your speaker wires, you'll have to take parts of the interior apart, hook them up to your aftermarket speakers and don't even worry about the stock wiring. You'll want to keep it all there anyway because, when you give the car back, you'll need it to put the factory stuff back in.

Jstas

Oh, and BTW, I don't think I'm always right. I'm just wrong alot less than I am right. I'll gladly admit when I'm wrong. Why don't you and your buddy faster100 just tell everyone you have a problem with me? You know, denying your true feelings and bottling them up inside doesn't do you any good and can lead to depression and even psychosis.

faster100

you seem to have a wealth of car audio knowledge.. No dispute about that, It's just the way you deliver your advice sucks.. "Almost" everyone that asks a question here gets your sarcastic answers. Like why are you bugging us? you said yourself you get asked the same questions over and over by newbies, why dont they learn like you guys did.. Well they obviously think their is a wealth of info on this forum and want a answer to their question, simple.. or else as much as Brett doesnt care for you he wouldnt have came here for advice!! Make sense.. now stop thinking everyone hates you... That my friend leads to suicidal thoughts and deppresion..

I don't know about you, but if every forum we visited for help and imformation acted like you guys do and said, Learn your self lazy ****, no one would ever get help.. I'm paraphrasing here.. not your actual comments per say' to anyone..

I visit alot of forums for computer related, overclocking, home audio. networking.. and such and i do so to ask questions and learn, I see fights and disagreements everywhere.. that i ignore.. But if everywhere i went i got the brick wall for answers.. i guess i would resort to another means of info..

Ok off my soap box... I mean no harm jstas... me and MY "buddy" as you call us brettw got in a fight the other night.. But so what.. i have argued with some of my closest friends only to bring us closer as friends.. fighting is ok, as long as their is resolution at some point..

Make sense... ????????

Jstas

You are just flat out wrong.

No one is complaining about having to answer the same questions over and over again. They do complain but only to kindred spirits who have experienced the same frustrations. The questions people don't like answering over and over are "What will work best with this speaker?" or "What kind of speaker should I get for this amp?" or "Will this 1000Wx1 amp power my stereo 6x9's?". Mainly because those questions CAN be answered by someone taking a little of thier own time and researching specs on equipment. There is way too much stuff out there to give an exact answer especially when what I like may not be what the next guy likes. So yeah, people who find it okay for me to take my time to help them find the answer that they could easily find themselves is frustrating. If they have a question about specs or a particular piece of equipment, I am more than happy to help out but a general recommendation doing the reasearch that they could be doing for themselves is quite frustrating.

What is also frustrating is when people ask you for your advice and then tell you that your advice is wrong. Why did they bother to even ask if they "knew" the answer already.

What I have not seen is someone getting the response "learn your self lazy ****" to a legitimate question. Questions like what is mentioned above are questions that the asker could have found the answer to in the same amount of time it took them to write the broken English that they asked the question with. That kind of a person will be met with rather harsh advice but thier question will be answered. Nobody is ecpecting high-level questions to be asked. But basic, simple questions that they can answer themselves is almost insulting. Not from a "holier-than-thou" standpoint but rather from the idea that it seems they are too cool to find out for themselves so they would rather come here, posture for us, look like a fool and then ask a question that if they took 5 minutes of searching on yahoo.com, they would know the answer. So it's ok for the rest of us to do the research and work for them to find out what works for thier vehicle but not for them? Should I co an call Crutchfield for them too? Maybe I could put it on my credit card for them too? Would that be acceptable?

Helping out n00bs is always a nice thing to do because it helps stear people away from the "herd mentality" that has seemed to plague us with the likes of JL Audio and Bose. It is also quite satisfying to answer a question along the lines of "Will this particular RF amp work with my Polk MOMO?" or "I want to use coaxials in my Honda Accord but I can find a speaker I like that will fit my mounting point. Do you have any suggestions?" Those are questions. The ones mentioned earlier are not questions but consultation jobs. I don't know about you but my time is valuable and only my closest friends get free consultation and installation services from me.

I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt because I don't ****-foot around. Actually, no, I'm not sorry. You ask a question, I'm going to give an honest answer, even if it's something you don't want to hear. I'm not going to lie about anything and if I am mistaken, I will leave it corrected. As far as everyone hating me? Well, considering I only get certain people whom reply to my posts in public on the home audio forums and every one of those is usually hostile or intolerant, its safe to say that I am not liked there.

faster100

edited for content, :rolleyes:

Jstas

What issues do you have that you think I am giving you an attitude? You asked questions and made statements to which I responded. It is clear that yet again you do not like the response.

You compare this forum to the home audio forums but I'd like you to take a good long look at the disparity of the number of participants in the car audio forums vs. the home audio forums. There aren't a whole lot of people here capable of answering the questions that get asked. Kind of leaves us with hands tied on whether we can choose to answer questions or not. If I or anyone else here did not answer questions, no one would. Everyone here has responded to the repeated questions with even links to the actual threads where the questions were asked before. I've even had people tell me that a linked thread did not apply to thier question when the question in the linked thread was, word for word, the exact question asked.

The situation is different here and nobody harbors any ill feelings about anyone or anything. It's only the typical home audio dwellers that come in here with a chip on thier shoulder about anything and everything and get bent out of shape because nobody kisses thier asses about anything. Ask a question, you will always get an answer. Waste someone's time or disrespect the person who you are asking for help, well, you may not like your answer then and it won't necessarily come from me.

And since when did this turn into another bash-Jstas-fest?

faster100

edit: edited for the usual jstas reasons. :rolleyes:

Jstas

What "smart-assed ****"? Seems to me like you were the one with the first smart assed comment in the thread.

Or did you forget about this little jewel of "wisdom"?

the truth does hurt, obviously

Oh yeah, I thought you were done with this? You won't be though, you are going to respond again. You are going to keep responding because you can't bear to see me have the last word. I was expecting this behavior from brettw22.

MTXMAN

Hey Jstas, I don't hate you, actually i find your posts both informative and entertaining (not in a condesending way but in a kindred spirit way) i'm often a very cynical and sarcastic person and i always enjoy reading your posts. as for brett and faster you guys should stick to your turf in home audio if you're just gonna come in here and mess with one of ours. and i agree with you Jstas, they are going to post again. they can't stand not to, it would eat them up inside and keep them from sleep. even a post to deny this fact would prove our points

brettw22

um.....I posted here because I was looking for others insight to my specific situation. While I appreciate informative and helpful responses, don't mistake that as my welcoming whatever level of **** attitude you guys have decided to heave into the posts.

MTX, for you to say stick to my turf in Home Audio....that's about an absolutely retarded comment, as my questions have ZERO to do with home audio. My issues with Stas in the past aren't going to prevent me from asking for help here since I haven't ever done anything car audio related (other than a system put in a car of mine 10 years ago, which hardly helps in this situation).

I do understand the frustration of being asked the same questions over and over again. We deal with that all the time in the Home Audio Forum. I suppose that the only reponse to that is that since this is a Polk forum, they've TOLD us to answer those questions as often as they're asked (gotta love the Ten Commandments). If we don't like it, I guess we're supposed to stop posting......

If my saying Thank You wasn't the correct response to getting help, what would you prefer........for me to take the advice and walk out with a finger flyin? I'm grown up enough to accept that while I may not like Stas, he might be willing to offer help when questions are asked. He did that, I thanked him (and everyone else), and through it all, I'm being told to go away? Doesn't work that way for me......... (i'm sure this will make your point or somethin.....yay you)

Jstas

AWWW!!! C'mon! You're slippin' now! That is totally NOT what I was expecting!

MTXMAN

lol, hey jstas you may want to wipe up that sarcasim that was dripping off of your tongue ;D

knew he couldn't resist having the last word... he'll probably reply again too, i think we could probably provoke him enough to take the record for longest thread here ;D

sntnsupermen131

id rather not try and get that record...it just stop right here...the forum is always very peaceful until the home theater guys come in...i can understand wanting to answer a question...and if you knew jstas might answer to your thread...and you dont like the way he answers people...theres lots of other car audio forums besides this one...if you dont want to go somewhere else...take the sarcasm...its an online forum...jesus
"Arguing online is like running in the Special Olympics, you might win, but you're still retarded"
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

home audio --> where those who fail to achieve greatness in their vehicle turn for satisfaction.

... that's from webster's.

have some fried rice with 2fast2furious wanna be over there.

kung pow chicken and creme-of-sum-yung-guy...

i bet i can fit a honda in the bed of a 3500 dually.