need to make a decision on RELIABLE used car

newrival

vlam wrote: »

Look for a 2nd generation TL (TLs if you want the extra power). 2003 is a good year. I've had mine since new. Very reliable so far. Only time when car is out of comission is when it got hit and in the shop for repair.

I've looked at a one. Seems like a very nice car. I'm going to a dealership tonight that has a couple of these.

I hope I find something soon. Car shopping sucks when its not for myself! haha

Glowrdr

Last post about the TL (Can you tell I was a fanatic? lol)

vlam wrote: »

Look for a 2nd generation TL (TLs if you want the extra power). 2003 is a good year. I've had mine since new. Very reliable so far. Only time when car is out of comission is when it got hit and in the shop for repair.

In 2004/05, there was no Type-S, but the regular ones had more horsepower than the >2003 Type-S did. In 2006 the HP changed, but that was due to the SAE ratings being adopted.

nguyendot wrote: »

I like the TL type-s 2nd gen..very aggressive looking. Just wish it came with the SH-awd the 3rd gen comes with. It pushes FWD to it's limits I have to admit.

You're a gen behind. The 1st/2nd gen's looked like camry's. The 3rd gen was the hot one (2004-2008). The 4th gen was then they brought the SH-AWD into the picture. Along with that ugly **** eagle beak grill.

vlam

Glowrdr wrote: »

Last post about the TL (Can you tell I was a fanatic? lol)



In 2004/05, there was no Type-S, but the regular ones had more horsepower than the >2003 Type-S did. In 2006 the HP changed, but that was due to the SAE ratings being adopted.



You're a gen behind. The 1st/2nd gen's looked like camry's. The 3rd gen was the hot one (2004-2008). The 4th gen was then they brought the SH-AWD into the picture. Along with that ugly **** eagle beak grill.

Yes, the 2004/05 TL was rated higher HP than the 03 Type S but their performance is just about the same. Not usually a good idea to go with first year of new generation. It took the 2nd generation a few years to get it right. That is why it's best to stay away from the the 00 or 01 (plague with transmission problem).

The 3rd generation was also shorter so you lose some trunk space. AWD is not necessary for these front wheel drive cars with the right tires. I've never had problem with mine in the snow for all these years unless it was a clearance problem.

kharp1

Anyone here believe in buying American? There are some very good American automobile available...just saying, you know, with the economy and such.

nguyendot

kharp1 wrote: »

Anyone here believe in buying American? There are some very good American automobile available...just saying, you know, with the economy and such.

I think when they said reliable it ruled out just about all of them
I bought American, and I won't do it again. (unless its like a CTS-V or something).

Polkie2009

There's lots of foreign cars actually now assembled here in the USA by Americans.

Jim Shearer

kharp1 wrote: »

Anyone here believe in buying American? There are some very good American automobile available...just saying, you know, with the economy and such.

It's essentially impossible to get a car that's built in America with all American parts. IIRC ABC had a piece on their evening news a while back looking at where cars were built and how much American parts content they have. They compared a Ford (forget if it was a small SUV or the Fusion) with a Toyota Camry. Turns out the Camry is more American than the Ford.

We live in a global economy, and our options to buy local are becoming limited to the stuff we get at the farm stand down the road.

Cheers, Jim

newrival

kharp1 wrote: »

Anyone here believe in buying American? There are some very good American automobile available...just saying, you know, with the economy and such.

i'm all for buying american, but i'm buying used. Used cars have no bearing on the economy other than the dealership from where I bout it because the import has already been purchased by the original owner. It is now a domestic commodity. Being as such, whichever car I buy, no matter the make, will be buying american.

I think you'll find there are many people that believe in buying american. Several Camaro, Corvette, and Mustang owners

And there are plenty of reliable american cars: taurus, f-150, focus, etc. However, until recently, the american vehicles have suffered hugely with the big 3 possessing all the design prowess of a common brick.

sucks2beme

newrival wrote: »

I think you'll find there are many people that believe in buying american. Several Camaro, Corvette, and Mustang owners
And there are plenty of reliable american cars: taurus, f-150, focus, etc. However, until recently, the american vehicles have suffered hugely with the big 3 possessing all the design prowess of a common brick.

That's always been my point. The quality of assembly is almost par with others. The problem has been with the engineering design. Once a car and driveline go into production, they won't change even the worse stuff out until they get to another cycle. This takes years. Some of the new stuff from Ford is greatly improved. I do all too well know how much of the components are made offshore. I do like new drivelines that Chrysler and Ford have cooked up for their performance cars. Ford put a lot of work into the new Mustang v8. They perform at a level that is hard to believe in a mass produced car line.

kharp1

Jim Shearer wrote: »

It's essentially impossible to get a car that's built in America with all American parts. IIRC ABC had a piece on their evening news a while back looking at where cars were built and how much American parts content they have. They compared a Ford (forget if it was a small SUV or the Fusion) with a Toyota Camry. Turns out the Camry is more American than the Ford.

We live in a global economy, and our options to buy local are becoming limited to the stuff we get at the farm stand down the road.

Cheers, Jim

This is largely true, however, when purchasing from a foreign maker (Toyota, Honda, Mitsubiushi, ect.) the profits largely go over seas. Most foreign automobile manufacturers are supported by their governments and trade is not on a level playing field due to import/export restrictions. I'm not against a global economy, just against one that's not beneficial to both sides.

I also agree with the writer that stated American design and engineering were pretty bad. That is changing rapidly and I know at Ford we are building some of the best vehicles we've ever built.

vlam

kharp1 wrote: »

Anyone here believe in buying American? There are some very good American automobile available...just saying, you know, with the economy and such.

Not sure how buying a USED "American car" would help the economy.

Tour2ma

newrival wrote: »

... until recently, the american vehicles have suffered hugely with the big 3 possessing all the design prowess of a common brick.

I see no need to insult bricks... :cheesygrin:

inspiredsports

kharp1 wrote: »

Anyone here believe in buying American? There are some very good American automobile available...just saying, you know, with the economy and such.

At whatever huge percentage of the US economy the US auto industry used to be, they screwed it up by sucking.

I'd love to buy American, but it's really no longer possible because their product are simply not "very good" as you stated. The brands mentioned above your post are the brands that are "very good".

newrival

Forgot to update this thread, but I ended up getting a new Ford Escape Limited v6 limited.

Ford had/has some great deals, and they're making some great vehicles these days. getting nearly 30mpg on the highway commute which is great for the engine and shoebox aerodynamics. Nice little vehicle. And it was nice buying new from an American company.

Thanks to Tour2ma for that reliabilty list (the escape seems to be great reliability wise, and looks super easy to work on)

Gadabout

If you decide you aren't going to do you own oil changes the ford dealership offers The Works Oil change and tire rotation. Right now it is $20 with the rebate coupon and has never been more than $40 without the coupon.

You doing a lot better in your V6 gas mileage than I am. I've got an 09' and I probably average around 24 mpg freeway. (That actual from the odometer not the computer). Just turned 90K thotherer day and only had one issue and that was covered under warranty.

The feature I like best about the escape is the Sync system. That might sound weird, but it makes my drive ta lotalot easier and comfortable to have everything hands free.

I think you'll enjoy your new purchase for a long time,
Scott

Jstas

I have an older Escape, 2004, with the V6 and 4WD. So far the only issue has been ABS tone rings cracking. But with 110,000 miles on it that's not something I think would be detrimental to reliability issues. If you take the vehicle off-road like I have in the past, they can get pretty banged up and fail. But they fixed that issue in 2007 I think it was? Not sure but if you have a new one, you won't have that issue.

But yeah, I like the thing. Kinda heavy for it's size. It actually outweighs my Lightning. Lightning is 4670 pounds, Escape is 4788 with the options we have. I think mine is an XLT. But it's ballsy for what it is and the Duretec 30 you have is derived from an engine originally developed for Jaguar by Ford of Europe from the Duratec 25 V6 originally found in the Mondeo/Contour/Mystique and won engineering awards and industry accolades out the wazoo. It's torquey for a 60 degree DOHC V6 but that's likely due to the variable cam timing. But still, 240 horsepower and about 200 pound feet of torque, it has enough power to scoot and in the versions with the towing package, it'll yank 3500 pounds down the road. Seats folded down in the back and that MASSIVE liftgate, it's useful too since you can fit a serious amount of junk back there. If you drive sanely too, I've seen as much as 25 MPG on the highway with the V6. For such a bruiser of a mini-SUV, that's pretty good. It's been the top seller in it's market segment for a long time for a good reason. It's a stellar little ride.

My only gripe is that I had better tires on it. The Continentals I have on it are total garbage but I'm waiting for then to wear down before I replace them.

But Ford has redesigned it. The 2012 models are only half a year until stock runs out 'cause in 2013, an all new Escape based on the Focus is coming out and it doesn't look nearly as capable as the purpose designed and built Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner/Mazda Tribute triplets.

It also sucks that you couldn't wait a few months because come July/August timeframe there's going to be a firesale on 2011 and 2012 Escapes that haven't moved off the lots yet.

Here's the new Escape:



I much prefer the old one.

Oh and Gadabout's right. That "The Works" from the Ford dealer is actually a pretty good value. Some of the more unscrupulous dealers will try to upsell you on repairs. Since yours is new, I doubt that will happen. But the deal is a good value and qualifies for most of your first 2 years of scheduled maintenance. The other scheduled maintenance doesn't add that much to cost and only if they have to perform work. The checks are included. So if you're not a wrenchin' kind of person, it's a pretty good deal.

Gadabout

That new one reminds me a bit of the Honda CRV.

My 09' came with Michelin Latitudes. I just replaced them last week with 88k miles on them. I replaced with the lowest tire being just under 4/32. Probably could have gotten another 5 - 10k out of them, but I hate tire issues and decided it was time to get new.
I replaced them with the new Michelin LTX M/S2's. I have run LTX's before and I was pretty happy with their all season performance.

They have a 70k mile warranty and I expect to get about the same number of miles out of these. It's a different tire compound than the LTX's and very similar to the Latitude compound. Might not be the best for off road, but the rain and sleet I have driven through already makes me think I made the right decision. They are expensive, but I think these are the last set I will have to buy on this car.

Scott

Tour2ma

newrival wrote: »

Forgot to update this thread, but I ended up getting a new Ford Escape Limited v6 limited.

Ford had/has some great deals, and they're making some great vehicles these days. getting nearly 30mpg on the highway commute which is great for the engine and shoebox aerodynamics. Nice little vehicle. And it was nice buying new from an American company.

Thanks to Tour2ma for that reliabilty list (the escape seems to be great reliability wise, and looks super easy to work on)

You're welcome...

FYI the 2011 Escape V6/ AWD rated very well in the latest ConsReps car issue's owner survey. Apparently the 2012 is a redesign w/ a 4 cyl and a turbo 4 option.

mhardy6647

Mrs. H has over 130k on her '05 Escape Hybrid.
I am liking the looks of the new one...

Jstas

Tour2ma wrote: »

You're welcome...

FYI the 2011 Escape V6/ AWD rated very well in the latest ConsReps car issue's owner survey. Apparently the 2012 is a redesign w/ a 4 cyl and a turbo 4 option.

7

No, 2013 models get the EcoBoost. 2012 models are half year only and essentially excess production run 2011's re-VIN'ed for 2012 model years.

sucks2beme

Ford has really brought their best game with the newer models.
The changes in engines on all the big three have helped
HP and MPG. In the next two years the f150 will need to go.
It's going to be an interesting pick. I'm really milking out the miles
off the existing Fords.

Jstas

sucks2beme wrote: »

Ford has really brought their best game with the newer models.
The changes in engines on all the big three have helped
HP and MPG. In the next two years the f150 will need to go.
It's going to be an interesting pick. I'm really milking out the miles
off the existing Fords.

You can get a F-150 right now with an EcoBoost V6 pumping out 365 horsepower and getting like a combined mileage of 18-22 MPG depending on how it's equipped. It also comes in chassis rated for 3100 pounds of payload and 11,000+ pounds of towing capacity.

Pretty impressive numbers for a full-sized "half-ton" pickup. And you can get in a no-frills F-150 XL with an EcoBoost for about $25K. Hell, I'm actually considering one instead of a big pig diesel Super Duty.

newrival

Thanks for all the info and experience with the Escape! It's funny, I didn't realize how many are on the road until I owned one. It feels like every third car in my area. haha. But we love it so far. I'm with you jstas, I saw the 2013 model and though "God I'm glad I'm not buying that thing." It's not hideous, it just doesn't look truckish enough for me. to euro, or like a giant focus. I'm out on the Continentals, too. Total garbage. I used to be a Firestone guy, but I put a set of Hankooks (h727) on the Caddy and it's running smoother and quieter than any other tire ive had on there. Have awesome experienced water/snow performance, too. Not to mention a 90k mile warranty. crazy.

Anyways, thanks again, guys!

newrival

Gadabout wrote: »

You doing a lot better in your V6 gas mileage than I am. I've got an 09' and I probably average around 24 mpg freeway. (That actual from the odometer not the computer). Just turned 90K thotherer day and only had one issue and that was covered under warranty.
I think you'll enjoy your new purchase for a long time,
Scott

I've been utilizing the "hyper-miling" techniques, otherwise I get around 25mpg. The last 3 fillups have been a blended average of between 23.5mpg and 25.5mpg. That does bring up one nit-picky thing: the gas tank is tiny! 14 gallons??
Then again the Kia Amanti it replace was a big luxuray car and had ~18 gallons, and my caddy is ~21gal so its just a relative thing. Its less pain at the pump, but its just more frequent. Even my '01 VW gti had a 16gal tank. not a big deal as I wont drive 430 miles without a stop.

TroyD

If you are looking in the sub-10K range, if you are looking at Infinity, Acura or Lexus....you are looking for something pretty long in the tooth.

I mean, the reason that people recommend Toyota and Honda is that they are virtually bullet proof. I mean, the numbers speak for themselves. Subaru is a good car as well, I'd look there because they don't seem to be as pricey. Ditto Kia/Hyundai...the drive trains are indestructable but the rest of the car is not built to the same fit and finish.

Stay away from Jag. Own a Jag because you love a Jag and understand the pitfalls (why I drive a classic Saab).

German, eh, not bad, per se, but VERY expensive and the product doesn't justify the price...IMO. I mean, I'd own a VW or BMW but I don't want to pay the premium just for the name.

BDT

MrDHEJ

Nissan, anything except the quest. Used to be a master tech for nissan. My wifes 1999 Maxima has over 250,000 miles. 28mpg still.

michael1947

Whichever you chose please stay away from SUV's as they may cause an unrealistic confidence when driving in ice and snow. There are many serious injuries resulting from overconfident drivers of these vehicles. Also, with their gas guzzler thirst, Illinois may come up with additional taxes or gas use fees, wouldn't surprise me any. Camry, Accord, Carolla, Civic would be first choice used and any Toyota Hybrid if new.

DollarDave

michael1947 wrote: »

Whichever you chose please stay away from SUV's as they may cause an unrealistic confidence when driving in ice and snow. There are many serious injuries resulting from overconfident drivers of these vehicles. Also, with their gas guzzler thirst, Illinois may come up with additional taxes or gas use fees, wouldn't surprise me any. Camry, Accord, Carolla, Civic would be first choice used and any Toyota Hybrid if new.

I, for one, will stick with my SUV's. My Infiniti G35 will move on to someone else long before either of my 4-Runners. I'll take my "over-confidence" over a smaller vehicle any day.

BeefJerky

michael1947 wrote: »

Whichever you chose please stay away from SUV's as they may cause an unrealistic confidence when driving in ice and snow. There are many serious injuries resulting from overconfident drivers of these vehicles. Also, with their gas guzzler thirst, Illinois may come up with additional taxes or gas use fees, wouldn't surprise me any. Camry, Accord, Carolla, Civic would be first choice used and any Toyota Hybrid if new.

I love how you manage to blame the SUV and not the idiot driver for those things. I own an SUV and know its limits, so I can handle it safely. Besides, I've seen just as many idiot drivers in smaller vehicles cause problems when driving on ice. In other words, the vehicle is not the problem as you so ignorantly make it out to be. In addition, SUV's have become much more gas efficient in recent years, and a person using a few hyper-miling techniques can get quite good gas mileage.

SKsolutions

some good data here: www.truedelta.com
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