Pangea P-100 Power Supply for DacMagic

pearsall001

I'm going to give this a shot to see if it makes a marked difference in the DacMagic's performance. Quite frankly I'm more than impressed with how well the DAC sounds even with it's walwart, which I assume is well designed for it's application by CA. But after reading a few informative posts by Tony & Brock and their reluctance to try the DacMagic because of it's walwart & the inferior performance of walwarts in general. We shall see 1st hand. I'll report back with my findings. If I hear no difference I'll just sent it back (30 day trial from Audio Advisor)...no harm, no foul. And if I do hear a marked performance upgrade I'll have Tony & Brock to thank for making my wallet lighter.

danz1906

You should hear a difference, the Musical Fidelity older Dac sounded much better with
the upgraded power supply.

FTGV

At the risk of sounding like a broken record IMO the external transformer is not the biggest limiting factor in regards to the power supply of the DAC magic.(remember it is just a transformer to step down the AC voltage, it is not a cheesy switching supply).I would be more concerned with the qualty of the voltage regulation scheme used within the chassis proper.I have no details of what they are using but at the price point I would not expect anything special.
I'm of the opinion that the design of the regulation stages can have a huge impact on sound quality more so than the transformer( assuming it has adequite wattage.)Thats why when I recently built this pair of DAC's
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?123137-Cheer-and-cheerful-24-192k-DAC&highlight=cheer+cheerful+dac I paid particular attention to the regulation and mian filter caps,local bypassing etc.On one of them I even mounted the transformer remotely like the Dacmagic .(This has the potential benifit of eliminating the possibility of inducing 60hz hum into the audio circuit).
the section unit utilizes a high performance shunt regulator.

As for Pangea the details are rather scetchy but it appears that when used with the DacMagic it is feeding it 12volts AC only.That would indicate that the filtration and DC regulation within the Pangeas enclosure would only be used with the other products listed.Essentially meaning your just using the transformer.I would ask AudioAdvisor or Pangea for clarification on that.

pearsall001

FTGV wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like a broken record IMO the external transformer is not the biggest limiting factor in regards to the power supply of the DAC magic.(remember it is just a transformer to step down the AC voltage, it is not a cheesy switching supply).I would be more concerned with the qualty of the voltage regulation scheme used within the chassis proper.I have no details of what they are using but at the price point I would not expect anything special.
I'm of the opinion that the design of the regulation stages can have a huge impact on sound quality more so than the transformer( assuming it has adequite wattage.)Thats why when I recently built this pair of DAC's
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?123137-Cheer-and-cheerful-24-192k-DAC&highlight=cheer+cheerful+dac I paid particular attention to the regulation and mian filter caps,local bypassing etc.On one of them I even mounted the transformer remotely like the Dacmagic .(This has the potential benifit of eliminating the possibility of inducing 60hz hum into the audio circuit).
the section unit utilizes a high performance shunt regulator.

As for Pangea the details are rather scetchy but it appears that when used with the DacMagic it is feeding it 12volts AC only.That would indicate that the filtration and DC regulation within the Pangeas enclosure would only be used with the other products listed.Essentially meaning your just using the transformer.I would ask AudioAdvisor or Pangea for clarification on that.

All good points...I guess, because your knowledge of electronics & how they work is way above my pay grade. I'm a simple guy when it comes to trying these new pieces, I simply listen & if I hear an audible improvement over the piece I was using then I consider it's purchase. It doesn't take me weeks either to hear an improvement. Pretty much like video, you can see in a heart beat if one picture is superior over another. Our ears aren't any different in evaluating sonic variations & differences. It's all whether you consider the different sound an improvement or simply a lateral move. My ears will be tested shortly.

FTGV

pearsall001 wrote: »

My ears will be tested shortly.

Yes it's your ears that matter and maybe you will be able to discern a worthwhile improvement with the Pangea.I could certainly see it improving upon the V-DAC as it add's another stage of filtration and regulation to the DC before it enters the unit.However as I mentioned previously the blurb in the AA ad seems to indicate it is just feeding AC to DacMagic thus it would not taking advantage of the extra filtration and regulation.For my own curiousity I will do some more digging to see if thats the case or not.Anyway I look forward to your impressions.

FTGV

I found this little tid bit on Cambridges site. http://support.cambridgeaudio.com/faqs_view.php?FAQID=173&Question=Can+the+DacMagic+power+supply+be+upgraded%3F

BlueFox

FTGV wrote: »

I found this little tid bit on Cambridges site. http://support.cambridgeaudio.com/faqs_view.php?FAQID=173&Question=Can+the+DacMagic+power+supply+be+upgraded%3F

On the other hand, if power cords can make an audible difference then it is possible the Pangea will also make an audible improvement. I wonder if they include a cheap AC cable, or the Pangea AC-14SE with the supply? If it is just a cheap cable then it also will need to be upgraded for max benefit from the external PS.

pearsall001

FTGV wrote: »

I found this little tid bit on Cambridges site. http://support.cambridgeaudio.com/faqs_view.php?FAQID=173&Question=Can+the+DacMagic+power+supply+be+upgraded%3F

I did read that but I'm still curious to see if the Pangea P-100 PSU makes an audible difference. I think there's quite a few maunf. that also have that same position about not needing an upgraded power cord for their units.

BlueFox wrote: »

On the other hand, if power cords can make an audible difference then it is possible the Pangea will also make an audible improvement. I wonder if they include a cheap AC cable, or the Pangea AC-14SE with the supply? If it is just a cheap cable then it also will need to be upgraded for max benefit from the external PS.

I already have an extra Pangea AC-14SE in my room waiting to be used. The unit does come with a stock PC. I'll try it with both.

FTGV

pearsall001 wrote: »

I did read that but I'm still curious to see if the Pangea P-100 PSU makes an audible difference. I think there's quite a few maunf. that also have that same position about not needing an upgraded power cord for their units.

Yeah I doubt you'll find a manufacturer admit to an aftermarket add on improving their product.The key part of the statement was a confirmation of the DacMagic requiring an AC voltage so basically you will be doing what amounts to a transformer comparo.The extra circuitry for DC regulation will not come into play.

polkfarmboy

When it comes to a dac at this price range your money may be better spent on upgrading to a new dac than a fancy power supply ?

heiney9

polkfarmboy wrote: »

When it comes to a dac at this price range your money may be better spent on upgrading to a new dac than a fancy power supply ?

I would say no that is not correct. BTW, what do you base your opinion on?

polkfarmboy

The $100 power supply for a $350 dac I am just speculating but I could be wrong .One might hook up the new power supply and think wow now this rivals the wyred 4 sound dac2

On the other hand you could keep that $100 and put it towards a musical fidelity M1 for around $500 on the bay .FYI I bought a used dacmagic from amazon and sent it back .At the same time I bought a HRT music streamer and when put through the tubes they both sound great. I did not get a night and day feel about them however

heiney9

I bought a $300 power supply for a $300 Squeezebox and in that case it was a very obvious improvement. I doubt adding a $100 power supply will allow the DAC Magic to surpass the Wired4Sound.

I also put $150 into mods for a dac that typically sells used for $200, so by your logic "it shouldn't be worth it", but I'd put that 15 year old dac up against many newer more expensive units and I'm quite sure it would hold it's own.

The $$$ value really has nothing to do with it.

In this case, based on the design, it may or maynot make a huge difference, the point is one can't speculate, one needs to experiment and try it. I applaude Phil for giving it a try and seeing what shakes out. I alos applaude Fred for the extra clarity about the design.

H9

pearsall001

polkfarmboy wrote: »

When it comes to a dac at this price range your money may be better spent on upgrading to a new dac than a fancy power supply ?

I'll keep those wise words of wisdom under advisement.

polkfarmboy wrote: »

The $100 power supply for a $350 dac I am just speculating but I could be wrong .One might hook up the new power supply and think wow now this rivals the wyred 4 sound dac2

On the other hand you could keep that $100 and put it towards a musical fidelity M1 for around $500 on the bay .FYI I bought a used dacmagic from amazon and sent it back .At the same time I bought a HRT music streamer and when put through the tubes they both sound great. I did not get a night and day feel about them however

Everyone hears things a tad differently. What works for one does not necessarily mean it will work for others. Blanket statements are pretty much useless.

PSOVLSK

I'm considering this for my V-DAC. I look forward to hearing your impressions.

tonyb

pearsall001 wrote: »

Everyone hears things a tad differently. What works for one does not necessarily mean it will work for others. Blanket statements are pretty much useless.

Absolutely Phil, best to keep this in mind for any product. Then again, thats the fun of trying new things in this hobby of ours.
Can't say for sure if that Pangea qualifies as a seperate power supply or just a fancy upgraded power cord, but either way should yield a change in sound. For better or worse, you'll have to judge and tell us. With the trial period, you have nothing to lose.

tonyb

I think Brock and myself.....and many others, tend to fall on the more analog style of sound. Now lets think about the older gear we all lust after. Huge over built power supplies coupled with simple designs and good build quality. A proven formula. Technology can make up some of this, but has yet to go all the way. Especially when we are talkin' budget gear. Lets face facts, the W4S dac2 is no doubt head and shoulders above a Dacmagic, but also 1000 bucks more. Adding 100 bucks to a dacmagic for another dac will most likely be a lateral move and your wallet 100 bucks lighter. Is the difference in sound worth 1000 bucks to you ? Maybe it is, if so, rock it, but we are talking budget pieces here that perform well above their price point. The Dacmagic and Audio-GD products fit that bill. In my opinion, 2 different sounds though, and you would be the judge as to which you prefer.

If you are in the camp of a power supply not making a difference, think receivers and amps.

pearsall001

tonyb wrote: »

I think Brock and myself.....and many others, tend to fall on the more analog style of sound. Now lets think about the older gear we all lust after. Huge over built power supplies coupled with simple designs and good build quality. A proven formula. Technology can make up some of this, but has yet to go all the way. Especially when we are talkin' budget gear. Lets face facts, the W4S dac2 is no doubt head and shoulders above a Dacmagic, but also 1000 bucks more. Adding 100 bucks to a dacmagic for another dac will most likely be a lateral move and your wallet 100 bucks lighter. Is the difference in sound worth 1000 bucks to you ? Maybe it is, if so, rock it, but we are talking budget pieces here that perform well above their price point. The Dacmagic and Audio-GD products fit that bill. In my opinion, 2 different sounds though, and you would be the judge as to which you prefer.

If you are in the camp of a power supply not making a difference, think receivers and amps.

I hear ya...it's all about having some fun & trying different things. Some work out, some don't, that's why we have to get the pieces in our systems to really make a judgement call. I do agree on your analogy about the W4S dac2 being head & shoulders above the DacMagic...but only price wise. Performance wise is still a judgement call on how they sound to us. Just because something costs a lot more $$$$$ doesn't necessarily mean we will like it better. Nothing is that cut & dry based on price alone. I only wish I had access to a W4S dac to do some extensive comparitive listening.

Face

When I owned a DacMagic I came across someone who was also modding the internals of the unit, I'll see if I can track down his info.

pearsall001

Face wrote: »

When I owned a DacMagic I came across someone who was also modding the internals of the unit, I'll see if I can track down his info.

Interesting...I never heard of a mod for the piece, but I guess anything is fair game for the modders. If you find the info please pass it on. Thanks

Face

Couldn't get his info.

Any update on the PS? Or is it just Audiophile foolery? :razz:

SCompRacer

Face wrote: »

When I owned a DacMagic I came across someone who was also modding the internals of the unit, I'll see if I can track down his info.

Rick Cullen comes to mind. DIYaudio also has some threads on that DAC. Seems like DIY mods has been increasing.

I've been doing some mods on the MH 25.3 with excellent results on both the tube and SS out. The power supply circuit is up next, and thank goodness for Fred to save me from myself.

FTGV

Yeah Rich but you'll need an extra outboard chassis to fit the Salas regs and new tranformer.:biggrin:As for the DacMagic since the regulator circuits are within the chassis the tweaker in me would look at mods there and the analog section.

SCompRacer

FTGV wrote: »

Yeah Rich but you'll need an extra outboard chassis to fit the Salas regs and new tranformer.:biggrin:

I set that pic as a desktop so I can lust over the Salas regs.:cheesygrin:

FTGV

SCompRacer wrote: »

I set that pic as a desktop so I can lust over the Salas regs.:cheesygrin:

HeHe You need a pic with it turned on and the all the red and green LED's shining brightly.It's looks like a Christmas tree.

Face

Spoke to my local dealer, it was Stan Warren, one of the originators of PS Audio who modded DacMagics for some folks.

FTGV

Warren also made some nice preamps under the Superphon name.

Face

Yes, some of them still sound excellent.

SCompRacer

FTGV wrote: »

Warren also made some nice preamps under the Superphon name.

And amps, like this one....




and modded CD players.....

PrazVT

I just got my Pangea P-100 today for the Dacmagic in the HT system. Only have a few minutes on it, so can't speculate just yet on differences...though I did A/B one song and am sensing some subtle differences.

I have a W4S DAC-1 in the bedroom for the LSi9s that I may trot out to compare on the new KEFs. I decided to try the PSU upgrade just b/c don't want to cannibalize bedroom system.

BlueFox

The current (Feb 2012) issue of stereophile has a quick review of it, starting on page 29. Using it on the Musical Fidelity V-DACMK.II this is what the reviewer noted.

"With the Pangea P-100 the improvement was so great that cognitive interference kicked in-the improvement precludes my ability to fully describe it." And he then goes on to say how it really improved the performance of the V-DAC.

Along the same line, a couple of years ago I replaced the wall-wart power supply of my Wadia 170 iTransport (now 171 model) with a CIAudio VDC-9 external power supply, and it really made a positive difference.

Good luck with the Pangea.