Audio gd

tonyb

Been a few days into adding an Audio-GD NFB3 dac to the cullen modded sonos. Results are very positive. The NFB3 is basically a Dac 19 upgraded. Stomps all over the music streamer dac I was using. Plenty of detail without being annoying. Some dacs have so much detail it draws too much attention to itself, and I find I don't enjoy the flow of the music in an overly detailed sytem. Pace is quick, and this dac is about as nuetral as they come. Bass slam is very good, again, but not over done, just right. Definately plays well above it's price point. May add a tube buffer just for giggles. I can recommend this dac to anyone trying to get good sound out of their downloaded, or streamed music files. They come up every now and then on the 'gon but even new they are a bargain. Picked mine up with the upgraded chip in it from a reviewer for stereo times for a paultry 250 beans delivered to my door, and couldn't tell from new. Seller claimed he only had 30-40 hours on it so I expect it to get a tad better as I rack up some hours.Price to performance ratio doesn't get much better than this. If your wallet has thinned out lately, like mine, these units are hard to beat.

falconcry72

I'm glad you're digging it!

I have had a very good experience with Audio GD products. I currently use an NFB-7 DAC and a Digital Interface USB > SPDIF converter. The are both over-built, solid, and sound fantastic. I would absolutely recommend either one. As Tony said, they perform way above their price points.

The DI is a great solution for someone who already has a DAC that they love but they want to add USB capabilities. The DI with external power supply sounds better than my Parasound CDP-1000 CD transport when played through the same DAC.

Audio GD also has great customer service. There are based out if China, but they are very helpful (in broken English!), and I've heard that they are great to deal with in terms of warranties etc. The owner (Kingwa) is passionate about both SQ and CS.

tonyb

Your nfb 7 is a few steps up from mine, so I imagine it sounds pretty darn good. Mine would be considered their entry level dac with alittle better guts. None the less, exceptional value for the coin. With some threads we have going on crappy music from laptops, people trying to get good sound from their computer, this is as good a solution as any, and cheap.

pearsall001

Tony, glad your diggin the new DAC. It sounds like you have a great pairing with the Sonos. Nothing like awesome sound without breaking the bank. Also the tube buffer is a great idea...:cheesygrin:

tonyb

Phil, I know I asked you before, so excuse me for being a lazy ****, that Yaqin tube buffer you use, it's the one tube buffer, yes ? You using the stock tube or did you upgrade it ? If so, which tube do you like ?

Having not had an ear on many different dacs in a long time, the W4S dac 1 was one I recently heard. I don't remember from my earlier days of dacs having such a wide range of sound characteristics as they do today. That said, I didn't get to hear the W4S on my system, but I certainly can put it's qualities into perspective in comparison to the audio gd. Slam is there on both, with the W4S having a tad more, but then it also draws attention to it. Both have good pace, and space between instruments, and great detail retrieval. The W4S has a tad more tone to it, a tad more weight to the notes. The W4s is however, to my ears anyway, a tad drier than the audio gd. Both had extended highs, and soundstage width to please any ear. While in my mind, I contend the W4S DAC 1 was the better of the 2, the differences were not as pronounced as one would think given the price difference.
Having had a somewhat very limited wallet of late, it has forced me to really listen to differences in sound between various pieces and price points. While I stood in the camp of "you get what you pay for", I'm always looking for pieces that perform well above their given price point and at the same time trying to place value on that dilema most of us face in this hobby. That is, does that extra 3 g's really return the goods in sound quality ? Is it worth the investment ?I guess if your pockets are deep enough, that answer would be "yes sir". Given that most of us live in the real world with real budgets, families, other hobbies, the wallet is always being yanked in different directions. Today I question my own long standing ideology of getting what you pay for. Finding a synergy in your own system has become way more important than spending big bucks on one piece. Don't get me wrong, If I had the bucks, I'd be first in line for the newest, biggest, and the best out there. But since I don't, when does "good enough" actually become that ? I guess each of us has our own "good enough" moment. Comes down to just enjoying the music, and each of us has our own standards for what is acceptable to be able to do that. I have a bar set on the low-fi side at a point where my brain says turn it off, rather listen to nothing. But the more you spend on audio, the higher that bar is set, yes ? I can honestly tell you, the audio gd nfb3 is well beyond "good enough", for those of you looking for value products.

Braddles

I had the NFB-2 in my setup for a while and found it smoothed out my Marantz nicely. Great bass and timing too.

Very easy company to deal with and unlike some i had a reasonable delivery time.

Hard to go past for the money.

heiney9

I rarely fall for the "flavor" of the month type products. I've done it in the past and been disappointed because the hype never lives up to my expectations. But I have been following the Audio GD chatter for awhile now and I might just give them a try. I need to consolidate my office rig for USB use. Right now I am using a standard size dac and also using the Musiland 02 as a USB converter, so I have a couple extra cables and the std size chassis of my AMC dac is really too large.

I enjoy the sound of the AMC DAC8 more than the Musiland by itself so I've chosen not to use the Musiland as a DAC converter but to convert USB to Coax to feed the AMC DAC. The new Audio GD 3.1 looks like it could kill two birds with one stone so to speak and may give me the sound I am looking for. Atleast in theory, all the marketing text makes it sound like they may have an edge over other products in their price point. Plus the chassis is small enough to sit on my computer tower and will open up some space on my desk top.

I am not looking for world class sound here, this is a modest secondary rig but I still have certain expectations about the final sound coming out of my modded 5B's via various tube amps with lots of tube rolling thrown in too. Starting to give them a serious look. The one thing I like about my current AMC is that is sounds a little more analog than most "flavor" of the month DAC's.

H9

heiney9

Can someone who uses Audio GD products via the USB for computer expound a bit on the software they use for controlling the dac? Software always seems to be the weak link for some of this more inexpensive stuff. Musiland has some excellent, easy to use software which was one of the things that attracted me to it.

H9

falconcry72

heiney9 wrote: »

...The one thing I like about my current AMC is that is sounds a little more analog than most "flavor" of the month DAC's.

H9

That's what I liked most about the Audio GD NFB-7. It's warm, very dynamic, and has a super analog sound to it... much more so than the Benchmark DAC-1 and Musical Fidelity M1 DAC that I compared it to. The Parasound DAC-2000 Ultra could just about equal it in warmth, dynamics, and realism, but it's old so it doesn't do any new hi res sampling rates.

The NFB-7 and DAC-2000 Ultra just have better analog sections. Over-built, truly balanced, and awesome. Can't comment on the NFB-3, but I'm sure it follows some of the same manufacturing techniques as the 7.

falconcry72

heiney9 wrote: »

Can someone who uses Audio GD products via the USB for computer expound a bit on the software they use for controlling the dac? Software always seems to be the weak link for some of this more inexpensive stuff. Musiland has some excellent, easy to use software which was one of the things that attracted me to it.

H9

My DI didn't come with any software. I use ASIO4ALL, and it has performed flawlessly with foobar 2000.

Another thing to consider is that the DI can't input the 88.1khz sample rate. I don't if this is true of the NFB-3.1 or not.

heiney9

So I have to scrounge around and find a plug-in for it to run with Media Monkey, they don't offer any software like Musiland?

H9

drselect

heiney9 wrote: »

So I have to scrounge around and find a plug-in for it to run with Media Monkey, they don't offer any software like Musiland?

H9

H9, I am using the NFB-3 with the Dir9001 chip. I have it connected to my computer via USB. I have vista 64bit OS and use Media Monkey to listen to mostly the FLAC files I ripped from cds. YES there is some issues with the plugins to use ASIO and MM. IIRC their are less problems using foobar. I have most of my notes at home and can get you more of the info I found latter if you would like.
FWIW I have been looking into getting the DI like falconcry72 has but not sure yet.

heiney9

I use Windows 7 and won't be using Foobar even if the plug-in is easier to use. I'll have to do some more research because if I can't find a suitable plug-in that works with MM then I'll have to look at something else.

tonyb

Head-fi has about 120 pages on the NFB 2 AND 3, pretty sure the answer you seek is located in there as I do recall seeing someone ask about the usb input.
I don't think I would call this dac a flavor of the month, they've been around for awhile and Kingwa seems to churn out new products like crazy. He seems to me to be a very smart DIY'er who loves to endlessly tweek. Simply put, it's a great bang for your buck product, no more....no less, with a more nuetral analog sound to it. If that sounds like something you may like,give them a whirl.

Now, what it is not is a giant killer as that terminology seems to get way over used these days. Most dacs in the 1000 buck on up range would spank it. Maybe less even, like an Easter Elecric minimax which runs about 800 clams. To a discerning ear, I could tell the difference between a W4S and this dac, but the differences while audible was something I could live with for 700 bucks less. If that puts any of my ramblings into perspective.

cstmar01

Tony did you get it directly from them or buy on the Gon. There is a guy that looks like he's down in the Elgin, IL area that is selling their stuff now but doesn't have any feedback on the gon. Just curious.

drselect

H9, Here is some preliminary reading. I am using MM 3.2.5 not MM 4
http://www.mediamonkey.com/wiki/index.php/ASIO_Output_Plugins
http://www.mediamonkey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=59539
http://www.head-fi.org/t/554464/foobar-vs-mediamonkey-4-wasapi-comparison
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Best-settings-Mediamonkey-Win7
http://www.head-fi.org/t/512856/audio-gd-nfb-2-nfb-3-delivery-impression-thread
I am still looking for a reference about WASPI and MM and the nfb-3. Hope this helps.

zingo

I have the Digital Interface USB to SPDIF converter, and it's great. Currently running it on Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit with no issues and no drivers to find. It was very plug and play and did not require any adjustments except for playing with the upsampling jumpers.

heiney9

Jake, I'm not buying a USB dac and also having to buy the DI to operate it properly. The USB in the dac either works like it should as in no drop outs or noise or it doesn't. I understand the DI will likely enhance performance, but this is an office rig so ultimate fidelity isn't necessary. Like I said, either the USB on the dac is engineered to work without issues or it's not. So far I've heard mixed reviews.

H9

tonyb

cstmar01 wrote: »

Tony did you get it directly from them or buy on the Gon. There is a guy that looks like he's down in the Elgin, IL area that is selling their stuff now but doesn't have any feedback on the gon. Just curious.

Got mine off Audiogon. I was lucky to tell the truth, It was a seller who was reviewing the unit for Stereo Times, and only had 30-40 hours on it. Kingwa himself sent it to him with the upgraded chip in it so I know Kingwa probably made sure it was in top notch condition. Ordering direct from China can take a few months, didn't want to wait that long plus the chances of it arriving damaged is more than likely.I've called that other seller on Audiogon who happens to be local in Batavia,Illinois, the auction was open and when I called, he told me it was sold. Seems alittle shakey to me as he only told me it was sold after I told him I wanted to pick it up directly given his location. So take that for what it's worth. Guys, no bones about it, this little 250 buck dac performs like a 700 buck dac, period. The last thing I wanted was a dac for 250 that sounded like a 250 buck dac. I had the HRT music streamer before hand, though not a bad product, it sure didn't perform above it's price point.....in my book anyway.

H9- The USB input was not of concern to me so I can't answer your questions. Best to call Kingwa himself for a direct answer. I wanted just a coax connection for my Sonos, thats all I needed. I did however read a few reviews of some who were using the squeezebox touch and added this dac who simply loved what it did for them. Like I said, price to performance ratio on these things are way up there.

pearsall001

tonyb wrote: »

Phil, I know I asked you before, so excuse me for being a lazy ****, that Yaqin tube buffer you use, it's the one tube buffer, yes ? You using the stock tube or did you upgrade it ? If so, which tube do you like ?

Tony, yes my Yagin CD-1 is the single tube buffer version. I've ran a few different tubes (JJ Tesla, Jan 6922, Amperex Bugle Boy, & EAT ECC88, all of which all had their own musicality. I liked them all but the EAT ECC88 is the one that really brought it home for me. It added a very nice warmth & richness to the midrange that I particulary liked. I still swap them in & out on occasion but the ECC88 will be finding a permanent home. If your game I'd say give it a whirl in your system...I think you'll like it. Here's a link to the EAT ECC88 tube.
http://www.euroaudioteam.com/en/eat-ecc88-cool-valve-000008.html

heiney9

It would be nice to know if there is a reputable US seller. I am seriously thinking about the NFB 3.1 @$299 plus $65-75 shipped from China is a lot of extra money. When you include shipping and insurance it's not such a great deal anymore. I set my upper limit at $300 for my office rig.

H9

P.s. Still researching how the USB interphase works with Windows 7 and Media Monkey.

tonyb

That was my limit too H9, thats why used these units are a downright steal.

Phil, thanks for the info, promiss not to bug ya anymore about it.

heiney9

Yes, but the used units are few and far between for these low volume Chinese companies. I can be patient, but so far what I've seen for sale isn't much cheaper than I can buy for new w/shipping.

falconcry72

heiney9 wrote: »

... plus $65-75 shipped from China is a lot of extra money. When you include shipping and insurance it's not such a great deal anymore..

FYI, the total shipping and insurance on my DI (with external power supply) was 43.50. That was with DHL (the more expensive option). EMS would have run 33.

Still researching how the USB interphase works with Windows 7 and Media Monkey.

So I take it ASIO4ALL doesn't work with MM? With Foobar 2000, WASAPI and Kernal Streaming are supported natively for the DI, and ASIO4ALL works flawlesly.

There is no need for software.

sucks2beme

I got my NFB-3 for $252 delivered from a guy over at Head-fi.
USB FLAC using asio4all and foobar. With USB, be warned the DAC can sound very different
by changing the settings to something oversampled. I'm running mine at standard 44.1.
Other settings seemed to make the bass a bit flabby.

tonyb

Why not just get a converter and run the coax input ? Unless there is some compatability issues. If it's that much of a concern, I see Dacmagics all day for sale at around 300 on the 'gon.
The audio gd isn't going to fit every need or fit everyone's sound quality differences, as with any other piece too. Connections are bare bones, but build quality is better than your run of the mill 300 buck dac. I know the USB input has had some issues but I don't know if it has been solved or not. I don't follow Audio gd like a Gratefull Dead roadie so best to directly call Kingwa and see what the man has to say. Otherwise, dac's are plenty, lots of fish in the sea to choose from. Grant Fidelity makes a nice little tubed dac cheap, was thinking of getting that one too.

heiney9

Tony, if it has a USB input then it should work with relatively few issues. My computer and most new computers don't have a any sort of digital coax or toslink output anymore, just USB. USB can be really good. My point is why should I have to buy a DI to us the USB input? There are many other much more inexpensive and barebones units that are issue free with USB.

I am not interested in the other "cheap dac's". I zeroed in on this one because of the chatter here and other places and I feel the design is very good. I just don't get why in this age of electronics the USB would be suspect. It doesn't fit with their mission statement to allow the USB to be so poorly implemented. Just looking for feedback and info from people that utilize the USB connection.

This is for a computer rig and always will be for a computer rig.
H9

drselect

falconcry72 wrote: »

So I take it ASIO4ALL doesn't work with MM? With Foobar 2000, WASAPI and Kernal Streaming are supported natively for the DI, and ASIO4ALL works flawlesly.

Yes as far as I know ASIO4ALL works with MM but from what I understand WASAPI only works with MM ver 4 which I think is still in beta testing. I am currently using ASIO4ALL with MM on a VISTA OS to feed my NFB-3 but I had trouble getting ASIO4ALL to work initially and had to do some searching and asking for help to get it to work.

I had two problems, first I didn't get sound to my speakers connected to the NFB-3. Finally got some setting corrected and I think it is working correctly. However, the second problem I came across was that I read some place that said you know that it is setup correctly if the volume control doesn't work on the computer. However, I can adjust the volume control on my computer and it affects the volume. Other places I read said that vista was the problem and it works correctly if you set the volume to 100%. So I am just setting the volume to 100% and assuming it working correctly. I don't remember reading about this problem when W7 is used.

No matter what the problem I believe lies with MM and VISTA not with the NFB-3.

My computer does have both coax and optical out. I have tried the coax but am not able to tell if it is any different than the USB. This may be a result of my listening skills.

I just reread this and it sounds as clear as mud. I hope it helps some how.

heiney9

I have Windows 7 and I do know in general when W7 was released a lot of these types of devices were having issues. I know with the Musiland it took them a couple months to revise the software to run reliably in W7. Just trying to make sure this will work without too many bugs in my current system.

No matter what the problem I believe lies with MM and VISTA not with the NFB-3

That doesn't hold water with me. If the manufacturer can't provide software to make it work with then that is the manufacturer's shortcoming, not the OS's or media players fault. The Musiland works fine with W7, when many other don't, so apparently Musiland can get it right (the software) but others can't????? I completely understand that across the board compatibility with all players and all OS's isn't a realistic expectation. Especially since I want to bypass all the windows k-mixer crappola. But before I spend almost $400 which includes shipping and fees, I need to do my homework and make sure it will work in my system as I expect it to.

Vista and W7 are very different. I'll keep doing my research and if anyone has anything to add feel free.

Thanks for the responses so far.

H9

sucks2beme

The audio-gd NFB-3 gets better reviews using the non-USB interface. This doen't mean it doesn't
do a pretty good job with it. The newer ones also have adjustable digital filters, so you can adjust how it sounds.
For a bit more, there was a guy selling reconditioned Arcam rdacs on EBAY for about $400.
Those are known for very good USB performance.
Botton line, there aren't any magic solutions. You want better sound, write a bigger check.

FTGV

Whats this NFB3 thingy utilizing for it's USB interface IC?